[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I may have been wrong to assume certain dictators were atheist. But I think we're are closer in agreement than what may appear. I think you say religion is the cause.

No, I don't. I say sometimes it is and sometimes it is not, but since it is a very tempting thing to abuse religion o make yourself more powerful while making yourself unavailable for criticism (thats then called heresy, and on that is death penalty...) , and also since a religion can - but must not always - base on a very inhumane, unfriendly ideology (compare the Aztec'S religion with the teaching of Jesus), I take the safe road and say it must always be kept on a short line, should be regarded as soetnhing of not so much pubölic interest, but poriovate interest only: keep thy relgion in your heart, in your private sphere, keep it away from ruling the state , keep the state secular and not allowing special interests taking over policy building and law creating. Then people can believe in whatever they want, as long as they obey the laws that are mandatory for everybody, without exception.

We should be smarter than the monkey and know better than to follow leaders or groups which accuse, persecute and kill others because of what some book, political or religious leader says. But the herd is gullible and easily manipulated. Nevertheless they are responsible for their actions.

And ideologies and teachings do have a motivational effect, a focussing effect.

As for one who does think there is a metaphysical being who put it all together. How we relate to this world and most especially the concern we express for our fellow humans who are all also made in the image of God vastly affects the quality of the part of our being that persists after the death of our bodies.

That is fine, as long as you do not force others to beleive that or change the rules of living together so that they comply with just your beliefs. The public space has to be neutral territory. Else you would claim your freedom to believe this and live according to it, to have overriding validity over what somebody else may beleive - and if he may believe not more than that you may be wrong. I do not have the impression you would enforce such a policy, but I just describe it as an example.

Even Buddhists, who dont believe in the divine

Thats just a word. You might be surprised. Also, there are Buddhist sects and, as I see Buddha's teachings, deformations that turn it into a superstitious FX show, which of course is just an abuse. You see, thats why I repeatedly over the past times have pointed out the similiarities between Christian mysticism and Chan/Zen. The first are much closer to the latter than many Westerners think, since not many even ever have heard of Christian mysticism. One must not travel to China or India, to find Buddha's teachings. They already have been here, since long, just in other narration, terminology. What the church made of Jesus, imo is an abuse comparable to how many sects and Buddhist lineages turn Buddhism into a ritualised belief system again, into an institutional hierarchy comparable to the church. Unforgivable. I checked out in younger years Tibetan lineages as well, and although I know about the importance for a good, experienced meditation master giving guidance and supervsision, the level of dependency and helplessness created by extreme personal cultism is alarming to me, and also often rang my psychologist alarm bells. The dangers are real.


You can live well of being a Guru, you see. The more followers you have, the richer you may become, or the more your ego feels flattered, or both.

can be just as manipulative and cruel. But I dont blame Buddhists or Buddhism I blame the individual.

It is unwise to never blame the ideology. There are humane and positive ones, there are inhumane and destructive ones. Examine them, learn about them, and then decide. And do not base your judgement on opinions their propagators hold - it is pointless to ask the pope whether the Catholic church is of good or bad for mankind and the world: its the pope, he has his skin in the game. Examine, learn, decide yourself on the grounds of reason, and observation, empiry and logic: they go hand in hand. In Zen they say: Zen spirit: always beginner's spirit. And only when you see that ideological content working for the good of yourself and the good of all, not damaging others for your own good: only then accept it and consider to live by it. The wording, the clothes it comes dressed in then, are unimportant. In principle what you then have: is the Golden Rule, with an empirical fundament.

"Because he was my teacher, I harboured a fear that if I resisted his desires, I would be exiled -- I would lose the Dharma," one woman said in the report, referring to her spiritual teaching and practice.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/buddhist-group-to-investigate-sexual-misconduct-claims-against-spiritual-leader-1.4001578

Exactly this is the problem in quite some Buddhist schooling here in the West: personal cult maintained by the gurus or lamas or Zenshos or however they may call themselves, resulting in dependency, leading to psychological and intellectual bondage. And believe me, I met quite some of them: Zen, Nyingmapa, Kagyüpa.... And only two passed my testing and so I trusted them. The first was in my teen years, a colleague of my father who educated me together with his own son, from him I also learned sword fighting, a bit of archery and all I can do in martial arts, they were Japanese; and the second man I trusted and would call a master indeed was/is a formal Zen master here in Germany. Short time after I started to attend his meetings frequently he chased me away and told me to do my own thing, he could not teach me anything anymore. And so I did. Many quotes I gave here and in past threads, are from written collections of speeches by him, I use them since over 20 years when people asked me in the morning on things before I started to throw my tennis ball against the wall to wake up those who fell asleep while chasing Nirvana.

Its very, very difficult to find a good teacher. I do not claim I was one, I only say I can teach the basics of meditation well and can lead people as far as I have come on that path, and hint them at the direction of which I think they have the best chance to find their own continuation later on. But you see, it makes no sense if peopel find a good teacher while they are not ready for one. And then, I repeatedly have heard that, read that and in the end saw it happening in my own life: once you are ready, really ready, it is as if the teacher finds you. Its strange, in a way. Like getting a sentence from the I Ging on some issue that is heavy on your mind. And later you find how stunningly perfect the judgement matched. I have no explanation for how that could be, my ratio and logic fails there. I hate and dispise astrology. I give nothing for esoteric and telling-the-future. And still: I cannot reject the empirical experience I have collected with the I Ging, and Tarot, over the past 30 years. It goes without saying, however, that we do not talk about asking for the numbers for the next lottery. A bit more subtle it certainly is, but it is as if these oracles can bite to defend themselves: when you adress them due to being bored, you get ignored, when you ask for something unimportant, they instead may shock you by referring to something importan that really is heavy on your mind, if you repeat your question too often because you did not like the reply as you interpreted it, they let you know, close the shutters and leave you alone. Quite human, I would say.

I could imagine this confession comes as a shock for some people here. Skybird, and I Ging. Ouch! LOL.