[Jamie]

Since Skybird seems to be closing all sorts of topics in here, it makes it hard to respond to his nuggets of sage wisdom... I'm sure he'll close this topic as well eventually.

Originally Posted by Skybird

I must agree with 3star on what he said about DW and SBP. DW is a game with very strong sim-elements, and it was deliberately designed to be a game package, although for a niche-market. It is, imo, more bugged then SBP (although not that much like SC was). SBP is a professional training tool, and has no feature that was designed with a possebility of a game-release in mind. It also is in a technically better shape and condition, only one medium-to-heavy category bug, and a small handful of very minor ones, some of which evcen are not confirmed to be bugs appearing on all systems.

What also is a big difference is the customer service that Sonalysts and eSim are doing, and which made me turning away from Sonalysts, finally. SA is a defense contractor, and is the far bigger company of the two. eSim also is a defense contractor, although not on the scale like SA and in a different understanding, and it is much smaller. Nevertheless, although not having released a game, it's technical support, judged by the fast patching of SB1, and their published plans for supporting SBP, is far superior to SA - who is not able to have it's baby gotten into shape even after over one year. It also failed to do a thorough job with patching SC, which also was not substantially patched before over one year had gone by, despite the presence of some real showstoppers. Although smaller, eSim has the willingness to take better care of it's community, not only in terms of forum presence (which rivales that of SA easily, at any time, since years), but in deeds. They even halted all military offers of more lucrative contracts just to get the job with SBP PE done. That is what I call dedication to customers.

There is not a single PM that I don't answer, a single e-mail that is not replied to... our Support Forums are active (even a year after the initial release) and we support our games a full 8 years after they've been released. The patches are not released in the desired frequency that Skybird would wish them to be... we're doing the best that we possibly can, Skybird! We are a business and we have to try and move forward with other projects that help fund our game developments.... we're not getting rich off of you, I can promise you that (well, you sold your copy of DW, so that's a moot point anyway).

I understand that you do not like the way the patching of SC/DW was handled, Skybird. Trust me, you made that ABUNDANTLY clear... But to say that I don't support our customers is just totally untrue and disrespectful to me personally. It's 11:00pm EST and I'm on Subsim reading posts and trying to support our customers... I don't know many developers that do that.

No slight whatsoever to eSim, I'm sure they are a wonderful developer and care very much about their customers as well. But for some time now (since his SC petition in 2002) Skybird has "had it out for us" and I think Tanksim.com forumers should hear both sides of the story.

Originally Posted by 3Star

With all due respect to DW, which I have, the two are not comparable. One is a mass-market game which relies heavily on real-world techniques, (and, frankly, is flawed/buggy), the other is a sim which approximates about as close as possible the individual mechanics of the different types of vehicles to a level of fidelity and reliability that is suitable for the primary customer's military use. Basically, when the US or any other navy in the world starts to use DW as an officially sanctioned training tool, get back to me. SBP is being used to keep soldiers alive. That's how good it is.

Well, I'm getting back to you.... It's been happening for about the last 8 years actually (for all of our games).

DW specifically is being used in a $11 million trainer for the USN and is slated to be utilized as the foundation for a contract of equal size shortly thereafter. The Navy is very pleased with it (from what we hear) and the modifications made to it produce a very beneficial visulaization & analysis tool as well as a team-based trainer (using multi-station in MP) that has yet to be matched in the Naval non-commerical space.

Originally Posted by 3Star

My experience to DW is exactly the opposite of what a lot of people will find for SB: I bought DW expecting a high-fidelity simulator, instead, I found a relatively shallow game. Esim are worried that people will be looking for a game, and instead get a high-fi sim.

Well, that's definitely the first time I've heard that.

Of course, I totally respect your opinion and look forward to the opportunity of giving SB the time and study that it deserves. From hearing your enthusiasm for it and reading Skybird's preview of it, I'm very excited to dive in... (well, when Sonalysts agrees to let me "expense it" that is... For research, of course )