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Old 11-13-18, 03:42 AM   #5907
Schroeder
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
FWIW, although I'm sure the Trump haters don't care.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/201...Tb3ApAdODkCoaI
If that's true then it's of course reasonable. But it would have been better to communicate that from the beginning though to not give critics ammunition.


Regarding the nationalism thing there might have been a shift in meanings between the US and Europe. For example when I look up the German term for nationalism I get results like this:
Quote:
Übersteigertes Bewusstsein vom Wert und der Bedeutung der eigenen Nation. Im Gegensatz zum Nationalbewusstsein und zum Patriotismus (Vaterlandsliebe) glorifiziert der Nationalismus die eigene Nation und setzt andere Nationen herab....
That means "Exaggerated awareness of the value and meaning of one own nation. Nationalism glorifies one's own nation and belittles others as opposed to national consciousness and patriotism (love of one's country). "

https://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/lexi.../nationalismus


Wikipedia goes a step further and divides nationalism into two categories. Inclusive and exclusive nationalism:
/wiki/Nationalismus#Inklusiver_vs._exklusiver_Nationalis mus


(surpisingly good) Translation by google:
Quote:
Including nationalisms aim to integrate all subgroups of a society, regardless of their political orientation and their cultural identity. They are committed to the values and symbols of their own nation and endorse this to other nations too. Including nationalisms refer to different characteristics of the nation positive: on the republican tradition, the democratic constitution (constitutional patriotism), welfare state, economic success or international reputation. [11]
I myself have never heard of nationalism in this context. It sounds very much like patriotism to me.


Quote:
Exclusive nationalism or chauvinism is an exaggerated sense of value, which aims at the sometimes aggressive demarcation of other nations. The exaggeration of one's own nation, with the aim of uniting people and space as far as possible, is often accompanied by exclusion and discrimination, in the extreme, to the expulsion or annihilation of ethnic and other minorities, who are considered alien or harmful to the imagined national body. Examples of exclusive nationalisms include Italian fascism, German National Socialism, and ethnic cleansing after the collapse of Yugoslavia in the 1990s. The exclusive nationalism raises a "loyalty and interpretation monopoly": The individual should no longer view his religion, his home region or the ruling dynasty as the identity-forming focus of thought and action, but only the nation. [12] This claim can lead in an integral nationalism to the relativization or even devaluation of the individual: "You are nothing, your people is everything." [13] Therefore, this nationalism is classified among the political religions. [14] Since the 1970s, the term has been used almost exclusively in the sense of chauvinism. [15]
That's the definition I know. Chauvinism = nationalism (we barely use the term chauvinism in Germany though that's why I didn't think about it earlier).


So it seems that the term has different meanings in the US (inclusive nationalism) and Europe (exclusive nationalism) and that explains allot of the confusion here.
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