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Old 10-07-18, 05:00 AM   #10864
gap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
Well...here's what I have observed relative to merchant vessels...

Not all have or follow any set "rules" for displaying flags at sea or in port. Most do fly the appropriate flag (either their national flag [e.g. American flag for US-registered commerical vessels] or a merchant ensign [e.g. "Red Ensign" for UK-registered commercial vessels]). When in port they display their flag at the fantail and the flag of the country whose port they are in at the main truck or a signal flag yardarm (I can't recall ever seeing one with a jack or even a jackstaff). [...] The display of their ensign/national flag at sea also varies widely, some fly it from the fantail flagstaff and some from the main truck; the former seems to be more typical.

[...]

As for using a gaff rigged to the mainmast...pretty much the same thing as flying it from the main truck. Sometimes a gaff is used, sometimes the top of the truck has more than one pulley and that is used (see below), sometimes for small ships that fly small size ensigns, a "pig stick" is used with the ensign attached to the stick and the stick hoisted to the gaff or the truck. The design of the mast is different from ship class to ship class and frequently from ship to ship as well, especially as they get older and have alterations applied.
Thank you very much for your replies. What I get from the text above is that commercial vessels are lesser bound to etiquette than naval ones, but though with a certein degree of flexibility relative to the actual hoisting point (stern fantail, signal flag yardam, mainmast gaff or truck), the ensign / national flag is alway to be found in the aft part of the ship and it is never flown from the foremast (when present). Are my conclusions correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
They also typically fly a house flag at a yardarm when in port and sometimes at sea as well.
So a yardam (at the mainmast I suppose), is the right spot for house flag hoisting. Does port/starboard make any difference in this case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
House flags are not "official" displays in the USN, but rather flags that the crew would design and display on certain occasions. Generally they are only used when entering port...especially homeport...on return from a deployment or a "special operation"...including successful completion of most types of underway tests/trials/readiness inspections. etc.
I am especially interested in house flags because in the Flags of the World website I found drawings of the flags used by many SS companies during the 30s-40s, and many pictures of real (used) flags at the website of the National Maritime Museum of Greenwich (they belong mostly to British shipping companies, but there are also flags from other parts of the world).
I think that adding house flags to in-game ships would be nice for creating more variety and for easing the ship identification, but I am not sure that in real wartime practice, allied ships in convoys would have flown those flags especially in open seas. I know that at some point of the war most shipping companies dispensed with their distinctive colors, funnel markings, and anything else could identify them (including house flags probably), but what I have read in several modeller forums, this process was not as universal and as quick as one might think. I would be curiois to know your opinion on this respect too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
I suspect the choice is largely driven by the distance someone has to run to render honors to warships they encounter at sea. It is common courtesy for merchant ships to render honors to warships, especially if the merchant vessel is in the territorial waters of the warship it meets! Rendering honors means dipping your flag, which the warship acknowledges by dipping her flag in return. It's quite "formal"...the merhcant ship dips its flag, the warship then dips its flag and returns it to full staff, then the merchant vessel may return its flag to full staff.
Yes, I knew that already. Nice tradition, but unfortunately this is not something we can simulate in game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
Now for broad pennants and "house flags"...for USN, the most used pennant is the "coach whip" commissioning pennant. It is always flown at the highest point on the mainmast, above the ensign even. Of course, it's rather small and hardly noticeable, uness you're looking for it and know where to look (it is almost always attached to a "pig stick" and the stick hoisted to the top of the main truck). Broad pennants displayed are the identification pennants for embarked Squadron Commanders/Group Commanders. They are only flown when the Commander is "embarked", which doesn't mean physically present/onboard; their pennant will be flown from an inboard halyard on the main yardarm (therefore below the ensign when underway). When the Commander is embarked, but not onboard in port, an absentee pennant is flown from an outboard hoist on the main yardarm (Commanding Officers also get an absentee pennant when they are not onboard)...by default they will be physically above the ensign when in port, but since they are not displayed from the same mast as the ensign, they aren't really "above" the ensign.
Okay, that's clear. Commissioning pennants too are something I have had in mind for a long time, but at the moment I am more interested in broad pennants flown aboard Commodore / Escort Commander ships in convoys. In game, as in reality, those ships have a special role / behaviour / position within the convoy, and I think it would be nice and useful being able to identify them during convoy battles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBones View Post
Well, that's a small treatise...hope it clears up some of your questions.
Definitely yes, thanks again for taking the time to answer in such a detail my (silly) questions
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