Quote:
Originally Posted by Nippelspanner
I stopped giving a F what or who interpretes this book in what way and who is a "real muslim" and who isn't etc.
At this point, I just want the problem to be gone.
They debate for decades if Mein Kampf 'the super dangerous book' should ever be printed again in Germany or if, only with comments (as it happened now).
Funny, I think what needs comments is the Quran, since it seems to lead people to do terrible things. Or, you know, just put the whole crappy book under "hate speech" and be done with it.
Enough is enough.
When the muslims go crazy about it, ask them to stay and accept it, or to leave when their religion is more important than a stable society free of voodoo-bs.
/rant
(sorry)
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If only it was as simple as banning a book, but sadly not even banning Mein Kampf got rid of Nazi-ism in Germany, just pushed it underground, made people hide it until it bubbled up from time to time in ugly outbursts.
Of course, banning that book only came after a lengthy war which killed millions, and then there's the other book which is probably just as bad and that's Marx's 'Communist Manifesto', and Mao Tse-Tungs 'Little Red book'.
All have lead to the deaths of millions, and yet only Mein Kampf was banned in its home country, because Germany lost.
I don't think there is any easy solution to this problem because it is a part of human nature, you will always get people arguing over their interpretations of something, in fact, a good part of this thread could be constituted as people disagreeing over the interpretation of Muslims. Only we haven't got so far as trying to kill each other over it...yet. (
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However, I don't see any advantages to furthering devisiveness in an already divided community, I don't see how the 'us vs them' mentality is going to get us anywhere other than deeper into the mire that we're already in. If we further the image that there is some sort of war between the west and the entirity of Islam, the image that the likes of Daesh want to create, then I don't see how doing Daeshs work for them is going to net us any particular reward.
But, there is a problem, and I don't know if it's a problem that's small enough for us to solve without resorting to some sort of drastic change in our mentality, which isn't something that's possible in the timeframe that we have. It's like a cycle of mistrust, and humans tend to focus on the negative aspects of it. Schroeder has had plenty of bad experiences with Turks, for example, thus he has a negative viewpoint towards them. I have not had these experiences, thus I do not have that same viewpoint. There are likely at least one positive action by a Turkish-German for each negative action that Schroeder has born witness to, but either he has not witnessed them or he does not remember them, because the human brain has a knack for focusing on negative things over positive things, I don't know why, but it's why bad news sells better than good.
Again, ultimately it comes down to the individual person and problems of generalisation. I recently had a conversation with August which drew my attention to the fact that I make the same generalisations as I have criticised others for when I generalise right wing pro-gun viewpoints, I tend to have more exposure to right wing radicals than I do to left-wing ones, and as such I view the right-wing as being more...radical, shall we say, than the left. This is of course wrong, but my online experience which has in of itself been tailored by my own existing left-wing views means that I have built up a form of bias against right-wing viewpoints while at the same time being more sympathetic to left-wing viewpoints. That's only human nature but it's something that I have to periodically step back from and force myself to try to look at both sides of the story at hand...remind myself that not all right-wing thinkers are neo-nazis or gun-loving nutjobs, just as others should remind themselves that not all left-wing thinkers are gun-hating, communist nutjobs.
It's a messy world, this is a messy situation, but we need to encourage open minds, not closed ones, and that goes for both sides, not just for us westerners, it is, after all, a two way street. If a Muslim refugee family are willing to come to Germany, work, live and worship by the rules of Germany and the Qu'ran, as much as Christians abide by the rules of Germany and the bible, then we should be able to treat them with the respect that they deserve. If they break the laws, they should go to prison, no special treatment or Sharia law, because the laws of Germany are the laws of Germany. Admittedly these laws are based upon over a thousand years of Christianity, just as the laws of Middle Eastern nations are based on a thousand years of Islam, and ultimately the future of these laws are up to the people of that nation to decide upon. If the people of Saudi Arabia want westernisation then they will achieve it or some form of it, but it will take them time, blood and sacrifice to get there, and it is really not our place to dictate our laws to them just as it is not their place to dictate their laws to us. It is as wrong for a Muslim to demand Sharia law in Germany as it is for a German to demand non-Sharia law in Saudi Arabia.
We may not like it, we may think it barbaric, but it is not ours to change.
Dammit, I keep sidetracking myself, no wonder I derail my own threads.
In short, I don't think banning anything works particularly well, as has been pointed out to me before in the gun threads, banning firearms won't stop criminals from owning firearms. Banning Mein Kampf in Germany didn't stop neo-nazis from obtaining it, and banning the Qu'ran won't stop Muslims from owning it.
A society should be able to discourage a group without resorting to state laws banning such things, people should know enough from the past to know where radicalism ends up, and if they don't then we need to teach them.
And as rants go, that wasn't so bad.
