Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder
And that is the exact problem. There is no moderate force trying to do something about the problem (perceived or real) so people are turning towards Nazis. They only want protection from Islam but will get the whole package of totalitarian fascist parties with all the bells and whistles.
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In Germany, and Europe, since decades migration policy has been made against what the people wanted by majority.
The gains of more right-leanign factions recently in Europe, are a result of that. People see that the establishement does nto act on their behalf. So they try other options. Thesd eothe roptions may be ratters, or reasonable people, but what makes them attrative to these moiddle grounds of society is that they are not the established poltical caste and its plots.
In Germany, there have recently formed up two such groups. The Euro-criticla party of AfD, Alternative für Deutschland. Founded by an economis prfessor against the Euro madness, while at the same time swearing to be loyal to a EU-dominated Europe (which is a contradiction, imo, and thus the AfD wa snot consdered by me for longer than just a week as a project for which I maybe would enagge myself. The party meanwhile has allowed to attract a far greater diversity of opinions that can be welcomed by the AfD: especially apparent rightwing extremist, some white supremacists, and a whole gang of neurotic narcissists have hijacked the party, it now is a kiondergarden where everybody seems to fight against verybody, the former founder is in danger to be pushed out of power and influence, and the only man of name and competence engaging himself for the AfD, the former head of the German Industrie-und Handwerkskammer, Olaf Henkel, almost has resigned and given up, regretting that he ever took the step to jpoin the party. A bitter fight for power is paralysing it all. I expect not much of the AfD.
The other movement forming up is called Pegida (dont ask me, I never cared to find out what that means). Originally it was a movement that took a front against the islmaization hijacking more and more freedom and tolerance in Germany, and the relkated poltical submission and correctness. But again, it also has been infiltrated and infested apparently by Nazis, rightwingers and according extremesits. Pegida has may opinion faces, it seems, some are Nazi, some are as argument- and ifnormaiton focussed anti-Islamic like I am myxself. But fopr peope like me, Pegida again canot be an option, due to its inability to fight its growing inflitration by Nazis, and I take no prisoners, when it comers no Nazis.
At the same time, the number of racist attacks by Arabs and Muslims against Jews is rising, like in many other European co9utnries, too, while at the same time the icnidents of violence against "Muslim obkjects"n namloes mosques, also is growing, for the most not committed by Nazis, but "ordinary" Islam-critical people who feel not being taken serious by established politics.
As one commentator some days ago wrote in the German press in reply to some b astard of an estalbioshed career-parasite from the poltical establishment who called of people in Pegida a "disease": Pegida is not the disease, Pegidsa is just the symptom. The symptom of an arrogant, doisconnected and absolutistically acting political caste that for years and decades now thinks it must only bribe the mob for elections, and in the three years in between can do what it wants in complete ignorance of people's will.
The treaties for bringing Turkish guest workers to Germany that were signed in the middle of last century, where refused to be signed by the German coalition government of back then, originally. The - formally socialist!!! - minister for economy back then said that the Islamic culture and the canon of values in the West would be absolutely incompatible. Wowh! Today he would be called a Nazi, if not something worse. America however had other plans, it wanted to bind Turkey deeper into NATO, it wanted to stage new weapons in Turkey, and for that theTurks demanded a price: access to the European labor market so that they would have a relief valve for the pandemic poverty harassing its huge population in extremelyx poor Anatolia. The Americans started to lobby for Turkish guest worker treaties, and finally more or less openly blackmailed the German government. The chancellor of that time also was of the opinion that economcs should not be run by the rules of economics, but should be seen as a tool of running foreign politics, an old conflict that already started in the bitter antipathy between Adenauer and Ludwig Erhard (the latter being one of the very rare modern German politics for whom I have a certain amount of respect), who also held totally different views over this issue. Finally, the ministry for economics and labour that had the responsibility for the negotiations with Turkey, was thrown out of the deal-making, to bypass its resistence, and the whole issue was been given to the foreign ministry, that then enforced the signing of the according treaties.
That treaty always had included a passage, from beginning on, about a timely limitation of guest workers' stay in germany, I think a maximum of 8 or 10 years - then they would had to go back. Any many others from Greece, Italy namely indeed left, those few who stayed nevertheless, integrated very well, and mostly successfully. The treaty with Turkey also said a following of their families to germany orginally was not planned, in fact the treaty explicitly forbid that.
We know today what had come of all that. the treaty was like so many others: less worth than some leafs of toilet paper, used. And when seeing how easily politicians lie and forge laws and treaties, bend and erode them, for example regarding the Euro union, maybe this should not have been a surprise.
Point is: migration poltics in Germany, and I claim: in most other European countries as well, always have been just a big social engineering experiment, demanded by an elitist minority that stayed to live in its villas far away from the foreigner's slums, and imposed against the will of the majority of the ordinary people.
Americans do not understand this, usually, and probably even cannot understand this. Their nation was build not on the grounds of aleady long existing ethnic and national identiteis that had grown over centuries, even over a millenia, but the US is a nation thrown together by foreigners from just many different places, with no shared sense of identity - the American idnetity of the modern era just had to be created, it diod not grow on the basis of a fomrer existing idnetity (because that one - that of the red man - was almost wiped out). For many Americans, why their way of handling these things in t he US does not work well in Europe, is completely beyond their horizon. And I do not even blame them for it, they cannot understand it, for their nation lacks the needed historical identity-related precondition to enable them to understand that. What would be important, however, is that the nevertheless accept that things do tick differently in other parts of the world, and Europe and America run by different cultural preconditions for sure. What works in America, must not - and often does not! - work in Europe, and the other way around.
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In the end, it is about this: people over here will grow their tolerance for growing extremism and hostility against foreigner, because their politicians fail them and betray them. I do not hide that this is even true for myself. What can happen to you in bitching and witch-hunting if you violate the official consensus in politically correct opinions, I have experienced often myself in this forum, but in real life as well. I have given up the expectation that any change in political attitude towards Islam with means of peaceful debate in a context of politics an d society, can still be achieved. It is no longer a competition of arguments: it is about resisting or not to a
dogmatically waged effort to enforce the continuation of a sociological pet-experiment by mentioned elitist minorities against the legitimate interest of the majority, like the Euro disaster also will be followed until the very last bullet has been fired, and even then the responsibility for the fall will be denied. Me personally, I would decide on a case by case basis whether I would help and assist a Muslim person or family in case they would need help - it would depend on the impression I have of them regarding their integration willingness, and nqwhether they are indeed Muslim (="Koranic"), or not. Koran-swingers and devout Muslims I avoid at all cost, like I also avoid fundamentalist of other religions. I do not move a single finger to assist their interests, claims, assumed rights, or whatever. I don'T want them here, and I do not do anything to help their stay.
And I have been pushed far enough by now that in case of violence against mosques and Muslim culture centres (nightly burnings for example) I would refuse to give any help at all. I do not want Islam in my home place, I am against this ideology, obviously. And I refuse to assist the state enforcing a policy that I oppose, a policy of ongoing, non-discriminating Muslim mass migration into my home country, where the existing Muslim parallel society already gives us enormous problems and has pushed several conflict levels close to breaking points.
For Islamic integration has failed on
grande scale in the West. In Sweden. In England. In the Netherlands. In France. In Germany. Everyhwere. It has failed. Or to be closer to the truth: it is an unfolding disaster that changes the faces of our home countries for the worse.
As usual my explcit hint that I am not against migration in general, and that I do not claim we have problems with all migrants. I explicitly say: we have problems
with Islamic migration, and while most migrant groups do not give us any trouble and integrate themselves well, time and again we find Muslim migrants to cause us troubles time and again, and their willingness to integrate is significantly smaller, in parts of their population non-existent, than it is the case with other migrant groups. This and nothing else I say, so everybody, keep that exact explanation on your mind. Anyone thinking he must once again stupidily generalise and claim "Skybird hates all migrants in general", is an #*&. I'm so sick and tired of people not taking care to look closely to the details and contexts of what I say, instead putting their own fiction into my mouth. I'm so very sick and tired of it.