[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

You are probably right that their data can be applied much more specifically to u-boats than information found in most of our other sources. I wish there were sources listed for their figures.

So do I.

In general, information reported by uboatarchive is directly derived from first hand sources; they even publish their sources, when possible.

The best first hand documents I was able to access from their website so far, are the Cumulative Edition - CB 04051(103) of British Interrogation Reports and, even better, the U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII C, directly issued by Kriegsmarine. They are respectively dated June '44 and July '40, which is also good, because they account for both early and late war specifications, thus complementing each other.

Unfortunately, the German U-boat manual doesn't make reference to any rate of fire, but it provides precious information on early ammo outfits (p. 56):

Ammunition.
Total amount of ammunition that can be carried:
8.8 cm munitions: 205 rounds HE shell C/35
MG C/30 munitions: 1500 rounds
Of these in munitions magazine in officers room between Frames 50 ½ – 53:
177 rounds 8,8 cm HE shell C/35
1200 rounds MG C/30

Ready-use ammunition for the S.K. C/35 is stored in pressure-proof canisters [one shell to a canister placed in a rack] in the upper deck just aft of and outside the operating circle to both sides of the conning tower:

28 rounds 8.8 cm HE shell C/35
3 ammo clips with 20 rounds each are stored in the conning tower.
The munitions magazine in officers room is connected to the flooding and drainage installation.

As for the British document, it is more explicit. On 42M, it states a rate of fire of 40-50 rpm in a table at p. 16, and it further details the above figure in another table at p. 18, by stating: "40 approx. (semiautomatic) 60 (fully automatic)". This is in partial accordance with the practical RoF of 40 rpm, stated elsewhere in the same website.

Moreover, in the table at p. 18, under the 'Ready use rounds carried' column, it is said "21 containers on deck each holding 25 clips of 5" and, in a note the first table:

(a) This 37 mm. is fully automatic; the 37 mm. which was fitted to some U-Boats earlier in the war was breech loading and had a much slower rate of fire. The new 37 mm. has since late 1943 been replacing the quadruple 20 mm. as a standard fitting (fact) but there are indications that it may itself now be removed because of frequent jamming under marine conditions. (B2)
(b) Ammunition is in clips of five.

This should dispel any doubt about the size of M42's magazines

Summing up, in our settings I would reduce M42's practical RoF to 60 rpm (maximum) by altering reload times, and I would keep the 5-round clip size. As for the SK C/30, I am tempted to use the same RoF as the 88mm deck gun: 18-20 rpm.

Lastly, please note that nowhere it is said that the new 40-round magazines entered service in Ubootwaffe. 20 rounds is the figure stated by most sources relative to U-boat armaments; I start wondering if we shoudn't revise our settings accordigly though it would suck indeed

Originally Posted by keysersoze

While not a perfect solution, I think this is quite acceptable. AA armament changed very little for the first three years of the war, but then evolved rapidly in 1943, just when many of the new shells were also entering operational service.

Unfortunately, this is the only option left, unless TDW can devise a patch for making the game to use ammo shells availability settings.

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Wow, thanks for that video. I am tempted to say it was "cool," but that's not quite the right word for it. "Intense" is maybe better.

Yes, "intense" is probably a more appropriated definition.

Sad as they are, let's share this sort of visual documents, whenever we can. Talking about it, this is another video I had previously shared in another thread:



Despite the silly background music, quite making it to resemble an ILS-2 video capture (I usually don't disdain trance music, but in other contexts), it is actual wwii footage showing some P-47 Thunderbolt as they are shooting their tracer ammo on enemy targets

Originally Posted by keysersoze

There must be lots of great U-boat footage hidden away in archives around the world. It would be really interesting to know which boats were depicted in those film clips and whether they were shot spontaneously or for propaganda purposes.

I bend toward the propaganda. Right then, film recording cameras had to be a rare item, and I doubt that a "free lance" documentarist could have got so close to Nazi weaponry

Originally Posted by sober

What about getting rid of tracers altogether like i did with my latest gun mod . Reasons for this were . Increase the suspense by a massive amount during game play by the player not knowing which ship is firing at you unless you can see the muzzle flash . The player is more likely to not attack a convoy surfaced unless early in the war , which is more realistic i think . Its harder to use the deck gun yourself which is more realistic , thats the crews job . No gun tracers combined with the smoke screen mod bring the suspense to a whole new level (no external cameras) .

I see your point sober.

This mod will feature tracer ammunition in limited stocks. Where possible, the tracer/no tracer proportion will reflect historical usage.
Currently I am more concerned about giving tracers a lesser gamey look, but I don't exclude the development of an optional patch removing tracers at all, as per your suggestion