About firing solution
 

Hi All, a few days ago I was starting to learn manual TMA. Firstly I learned using spherical array only, and i can made good solution for static targets like civilians and some surface warships. So something I want to ask is
1. How to deal with a maneuvering contact? Usually ai sub will maneuvering after hear TIW.
2. Is triangulation using TA+SA effective to deal with maneuvering target, at least knowing her newest position? If yes how much LOB you need?
3. How dangerous to use active sonar? To check if there are some nasty CMs, or other safer solution to know that there are some CMs and guessing where does she placed them?
4. How accurate is the autoTMA?
5. Do the ai surfaces deaf? They often didn't change courses, using nixie, or shoot back at me after I launched torpedoes at them, unlike the ai subs which usually doing some maneuvers, dropping CMs, and sometimes, worst, shoot back.

Im not big fan of manual TMA because other aspects of game are more interesting for me. However in my opinion all players should have knowledge how it works and what kind of maneuvering makes TMA works easier.

0. Using only spherical sonar is NOT good choice.
- this sonar have shortest range for quiet contacts
- it won't teach you how to deal with mirror contacts (like TA)

1. When contact tries to evade your torpedo it's very difficult to predict his way.
You should attack only with good solution, place mark on map and start TMA work almost from beginning (from last good solution marked on map)

For contacts which changes course but goes generaly in the same direction its quite easy. You should to watch this video:

https://youtu.be/EV2cIqJRf8g

...and play this mission because its good for improving TMA skill (RA mod required).

Scenario link is under description.

2. No
3. Depends. All enemy submarines probably will attack your sub if you will be in range. In other hand, not all surface ships can detect active sonar. Onlu specialized in ASW or ASW/Multirole warships.
4. Auto TMA can be very accurate and very inaccurate :P
You should track target some amount of time. Place marks on map when solution have "age= 0". With little experience you will recognise when solution is good/bad.
5. Not all surfs can detect active sonar. It depends on what kind of warship you attack.

What makes DW great is there is no ONE way to play the game.
Really, you play the game as the OOD (officer of the deck) but you can also focus on the watch stations in Control and Sonar if you choose.

With the auto crew, I look at it as they are only as good as you let them be. Its your job to put the boat in the correct location so the auto crew can do their thing. :up: If they screw it up, its up to you to spot the mistakes and make the corrections.

The bigger issue you're asking about involves Situational Awareness. You're in a given location with other ships. What kind of ships are they? Where are they going and what are they doing? Once you figure that out, how capable are they?

If a patrol boat is blasting away with active sonar, is that a bad thing or no big deal? Can they detect you? Do they carry weps that can reach out and touch you? :hmmm:

Overall, the purpose of TMA is to put your weps where they can do the most damage. This is key, you don't get bonus points for figuring out a contact's speed and heading within one knot and two degrees. :03:
Your weps tend to have good homing capabilities once they detect the target, all you have to do is put them in the right position without putting yourself in a bad situation.

I know this reply is very generic, my main point is for you not to focus-in on one detail so that you lose the big picture. :salute:

One thing I have long wondered and never asked for fear of being told "read the manual" is about "merging contacts".

Let's say I am at periscope depth, I raise the radio & ESM masts and periscope and there is a few surface ships in the area.

I can then get the same contact via visual, sonar, ESM etc. and perhaps a friendly unit has identified it so it also shows up via Link.

Initially there might be 3 or 4 "contacts" in the vicinity - with enough time that goes by, the auto TMA assistant will put some of them together as a Master contact.

Unfortunately it never puts them together with the Link contact. If you go into manual TMA, you can "Merge" some contacts together manually. You can't do that with everything though and you can't use the Link in the merge area.

I have been wondering if there is a way (that I haven't figured out) to use the mouse to merge contacts on the screen? I am wondering if it was "vanilla-vs-DW?" ? I know in "vanilla" DW, you could use the mouse to shoot the Harpoons in the FFG-7s, that isn't in the DW, could merging contacts be something like that?

OK Thanks.

You can't merge with Link, at least as far as the game is concerned, because Link contacts aren't made with ship-borne data. They come from other platforms. Therefore, you would have no LOBs with which to do TMA.

I generally find that linking non-passive Sonar tracks with sonar data is not helpful. By the way, I am including Active Sonar Intercept tracks as passive sonar data for this purpose.

Whenever I try to include data from ESM, radar, active sonar (from ownship), visual, etc. into my passive sonar Master tracks, I find it just clutters up the screen and confuses my solution rather than helping. I typically use those other types of tracks as a check on my passive-sonar-data tracks instead.

Mike

Again, look at the big picture. :up:

ESM helps identify the platform on a given bearing.

Radar gives you an exact location but also gives away your presence.

Merging the bow sonar with the towed array "can" give you a location/range based on triangulation, assuming the towed array is straight.



If I can locate a contact within +/- 5K yards, that's enough for a shooting solution. As far as merging contacts, if you're certain they are all the same contact, go ahead and merge them. If your solution on a merged contact starts to go haywire, it means part(s) of that solution are wrong.

Ideally, you want a solution to go wrong. That error gives you the info you need to correct it.

TMA is not the same thing as bore sighting a contact in your fighter plane's radar.
TMA is an on-going process of calculating a contact's range, heading, and speed from minimal bearing data.
TMA always happens in the past. All you're doing is guessing at a prediction of where the contact is going to be.

Thank you all for your help, I appreciate your effort to help me, and I am happy this forum is still active although the population of sub simmer is very few.

1. For p7p8 thanks for your advice. I usually use aTMA with manual sonar when facing more than 1 hostile (hard lvl quick mission), when facing 1 hostile (med lvl) I am trying to use manual TMA and Sonar (for learning purpose). For detecting surface unit, SA is still ok, but I learn to use the TA or both. And thanks for the videos, so you are a DW youtubee too? actually I have seen some DW videos from FPSChazly channel before, and from now I'll add your channel as learning resource too.

2. For ET2SN, yup, for the range <5nmi the confidence to shoot is big, even for ai surf its not hard to get very accurate solution in less time (they tend to be straightrunner, at least for vanilla dw). And yes i usually see the enemy surf specs, but I more often meet the units with torps/asrocs than the one that don't carry it like funky patrol boats

3. I never use radar or esm or link or periscope, just pure passive sonar and active intercept. Because I only play with subs in quick mission, (akula/LA for ASuW and Seawolf for ASW), but sometimes I'll try to play other platform too.

Not exactly. Im focus on MP battles organizing and my videos are always raw because it's some kind of battle documentation.

FPS Chazly have completly different style of playing DW. We (Chazly and me) are on opposite poles.

FPSChazly is more theoretical and with more cameral content about DW.
I always recommend his great tutorial series for players who start DW adventure.
FPSChazly videos are also much better for watching.

My channel is different.
I think participating in complex combined battles is more attractive for some players than tracking single contact with manual TMA.
My channel is for players who wanna feel real modern battle on skin - where every component of main forces depends on other components (without focusing on some details)
But my videos are also very boring for watching - because most of them are without commentary and my "target&content" is directed mainly for people who were in this battle.
And my english is terrible :P

My second activity is making documentary videos from tests.

FPSChazly is real youtubee - i am only "chronicler"

This manual will teach you all you need to know about TMA.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5187

Red Book was writen for Sub Command where TMA work was easier than in current DW + RA version.
Theoretically its good book for learning but in my opinion it also learns something wrong about TMA:
- you can perfectly triangulate target position from TA+other sonar (WRONG!)
- you can perfectly predict target pos after turns/zig-zak's (WRONG!)

My scenario (Kill Formion Destroyer) was designed for one purpose: how to do TMA for target, which every 15 minutes changes course for random small value (+/- 10/15 deg)

In first hour target goes generally course 140. After hour target goes generally 130
This kind of maneuvers will teach you different (more correct) thinking about TMA solution.
Its crucial when you play against human opponent. Players usually makes small course corrections very often.

Btw RED BOOK is still good for understanding basic rules of TMA work.
I recommend to read it not only for players who wants to play DW with manual TMA.

Yup, I downloaded that book and read it before starting learning manual tma.

And for p7p8, no problem, as long as your word understandable, I am not a native english too. The DW videos or DW game itself might be boring to see if the viewer does not know or does not have interest in modern naval warfare which is slow pace warfare. Even when my friend saw me playing this game, they will ask "what the hell are you doing/playing?". Some of them trying to play this game but feeling desperate soon. But for me, it is interesting to see how someone playing this game, how to deal with human opponent who obviously far harder than ai. That is why i see your vids. Btw, where are you come from? It seems you very like RA mod, are you russian?

Im from Poland :)

Why didn't you say that the other day when I said my Mom was from Poland?

I saw your post but i thought i answered you!
I have good but very short memory - sorry for that :D