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-   -   Pappenburg gauge and cryptic markings (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=227782)

Onkel Neal 09-22-2016 02:05 PM

Pappenburg gauge and cryptic markings
 
Ok, one thing has me stumped: after our visit to U-995, we are trying to understand what the markings are on the Pappenburg gauge, and why there are two of these gauges. Is one for the each scope? What do the marks mean? thanks!

Big images, easy to see the detail
http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen1.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen2.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen3.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen4.jpg

Also,why would the spacing be so uneven? On the left gauge, there's a big difference between 5 and 6 and then 6 and 7....?

Dowly 09-22-2016 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2436409)

If I'd have to guess, the left one shows the depth in relation to the periscopes.

The right one seems to show the same for other parts of the boat. For example, on the right side there's a conning tower (brücke) mark at -9,7m. So, to get the boat submerged fully, the water level inside the tube would have to raise above that mark.

No idea what the markings on the left side mean. :doh:

Schroeder 09-22-2016 05:51 PM

It seems that it shows markings of the hight of several parts of the boat.
Kiel = Keel
Bug = Bow
Heck = Stern
Brücke = Bridge (the lookout platform of the conning tower in this case IIRC)
My best guess is that this was used to go decks awash or just submerge certain parts of the sub...I could be wrong though.
However I don't get it that on the right it's one tube with two very different scales...:hmm2:

Aktungbby 09-22-2016 07:23 PM

Brückes awash??!!
 
^:agree:Just guessing wildly here: but the U 995 was schnorkel equipped; one of the marking on the Pappenburg guage is "Brücke" In German: 'bridge' but also in Norwegian (she surrendered at Tronheim Norway and was taken over as the "Kaura' in use for 15 years.)...Brucke in Norwegian is also 'exhaust'...related to the schnorkel??? Since the notation has an umlout I would guess German notation for decks awash to enable the late radar array to remain above water in the perilous end days of WWII; a precise notation at -6.6 to -7 meters if not also the schorkel ( "he who schnorkels well-lives") in the stress related atmosphere of a late kreigsmarine zentrelle, a harried planesman would have an instant memory refresher for a 'correct micro depth adjustments. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hentwiel_U.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...995_2004_1.jpg FuMO 65 Hohentwiel U1 Type F431 C1 for type VII Uboats was for aircraft detection. No need to stay fully surfaced awaiting some Liberator PB4Y's centimetric leigh-lighted doom??!!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...._ATP9767C.jpg

Dowly 09-23-2016 04:03 AM

While searching for more info on the papenberg, I came across this site.

There's a user by the name of 'Tore' who served onboard KMN Kaura (U-995), KMN Kya (U-926) and KMN Kinn (U-1202). Might be a good idea to ask him, if he knows more about the papenberg.

He also gave this warning about the U-995:
Quote:

We have many times warned against copying the details in this submarine as many details are not original.
:doh:

Anyways, here's a thread where he answers questions about the boats:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.0

Schroeder 09-23-2016 04:29 AM

If I had known it's called Papenberg and not Pappenburg I might have had more success in finding something.:D

But we've been on the right track. The german Wikipedia article says that it was indeed used for submerging just parts of the boat. It was quicker to react to pressure changes than the normal depth gauges and was therefore better for the fine adjustments needed to keep the boat exactly at the required depth.

The guys at uboat.net were a bit more precise than us though:http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,9...2541#msg-92541

:D

Dowly 09-23-2016 04:35 AM

And this is why we need grammar nazis. :)

Catfish 09-23-2016 05:31 AM

Ah too late but the information in Uboatnet is what you looked for.

And b.t.w. everyone knows that it's the "Papenberg" :hmph:

:O:

Schroeder 09-23-2016 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2436579)
Ah too late but the information in Uboatnet is what you looked for.

And b.t.w. everyone knows that it's the "Papenberg" :hmph:

:O:

Silence you Untertriebtauchzelle!:hmph:

:D

Onkel Neal 09-23-2016 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly (Post 2436575)
And this is why we need grammar nazis. :)

You mean, "spelling" nazis? :O:

Aktungbby 09-23-2016 10:08 AM

It's all about the UMLAUT; From a dutch 'Snuiver' 2 a Norwegian 'snortvalve'
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby (Post 2436521)
^:agree:Just guessing wildly here: but the U 995 was schnorkel equipped; one of the marking on the Pappenburg guage is "Brücke" In German: 'bridge' but also in Norwegian (she surrendered at Tronheim Norway and was taken over as the "Kaura' in use for 15 years.)...Brucke in Norwegian is also 'exhaust'...related to the schnorkel??? Since the notation has an umlout I would guess German notation for decks awash to enable the late radar array to remain above water in the perilous end days of WWII; a precise notation at -6.6 to -7 meters if not also the schorkel ( "he who schnorkels well-lives") in the stress related atmosphere of a late kreigsmarine zentrelle, a harried planesman would have an instant memory refresher for a 'correct micro depth adjustments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly (Post 2436571)
There's a user by the name of 'Tore' who served onboard KMN Kaura (U-995), KMN Kya (U-926) and KMN Kinn (U-1202). Might be a good idea to ask him, if he knows more about the papenberg.

He also gave this warning about the U-995:
:doh:

Anyways, here's a thread where he answers questions about the boats:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.0

:Kaleun_Cheers: WOW A close hit on the first pass; So not the radar array?!!! the 'snort'! I suspected some makeover and grammer modifications as Tore indicates. How much is still 'German" and how much is "Norwegian"? Tore:
Quote:

Snorting (oddly, British slang for the schnorkel) was in general a challenge to the people on watch. Trim and correct handling of the hydroplanes was very important.
If the snortvalve shut, the big diesel would suck out the air in the sub in seconds and the people would suffer. The cook had a hard time, one minute the kettles simmered in a second it could start boiling like crazy. In my day snorting was a novelty and in order to get experience we were ordered to test out the boat by sailing submerged from the westcoast of Norway passing Iceland to Greenland and back some 27 days submerged, which at that time was a record (in the norwegian navy). ( "he who schnorkels well-lives")??!! :Kaleun_Wink:
We got a lot of experience and ideas for improvement. One of the main problems was the garbage of which 46 men produce substancial in the course of 27 days. Rottening garbage is not a pleasant thing and particulary not on board a sub. We got desperate and decided to put it in bags ( before the plastic ages) and load the torpedotubes whereupon we fired. Of course the bags bursted and the torpedopeople didn`t like it much....Remember space was limited. It was more important to have place for some cases of whisky.
No doubt with the smell of 27 days submerged and all that 'whiskey...those Vikings needed a 'snort' (my dad's word for a Scotch-neat) themselves!:Dhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...xt_Bcg.svg.png:Kaleun_Cheers: A minor edit: Now that Papenburg is properly spelled; an interesting procedure emerges I had not paid attention to previously: http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBNotesDiving.htm
Quote:

9. When the desired down angle is achieved (normally 12-15° but can go as high as 30 ° in a crash dive - at more than 40° acid may leak from battery cells) vent valve for ballast tank 1 is opened. 10. Simultaneously, the planes are brought to neutral position. Shut off Papenberg depth gauge at 18 meters and precision depth gauge passing 20 meters. 11. Quick diving tank is blown just short of empty to avoid releasing bubbles.
One (tube on left) is the Papenburg gauge/ the other-with the precision markings- is 'the precision depth gauge'? :doh: OP should be retitled: "Precision depth gauge cryptic markings" :know:

Dowly 09-23-2016 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2436626)
You mean, "spelling" nazis? :O:

Close enough! :hmph:

Chromatix 10-15-2016 04:31 PM

I've got it:

The left gauge is for precise depth when shallow. It shows the depth to keel under the command room, and the hull outline gives a reference to determine which parts of the superstructure are submerged. This should be familiar from SH3. The nonlinear scale is due to water pressure acting against a reference air mass; as the volume of air is reduced by pressure, additional pressure has less effect.

The right gauge is for *angle* of the boat, with the middle scale probably showing degrees. The vertical orientation is confusing for people used to spirit-levels and other types of horizontal "bubble" gauge. The extra scales to left and right are correction factors to determine the depth of the foredeck and aft keel (when angled up), and the afterdeck and fore keel (when angled down), relative to the keel depth shown on the left gauge.

Onkel Neal 10-15-2016 06:04 PM

Nice, thanks for that!


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