Trying to be sneaky
 

Well I tested a ssn688 flight 2 doing 10 knots 150ft in mission editor..I was sitting in a Seawolf sonar suite picked it up on tow array 12 miles out narrow band clasiffied no wonder I was getting hosed in the Los Angles. will bring more interesting tid bits when I come aross them..

Yeah, maybe I'm too conservative, but in my mind, if you're not going 3 knots, you're asking to get caught! :ping:

I don't have DW (yet!) but is the optimum speed for ones own towed array 5 knots?

It depends on what boat you're driving as to what your "silent" speed should be. In a Seawolf or Virginia, you should be doing 5-7 knots, there's no need to go as slow as 3. But in a 688(i), I would recommend 3 knots.

In a Kilo, probably 3 or 4 knots but in a Lada or a Type 212, 5-7 knots as well.

This all assumes Reinforce Alert mod.

Lanzfeld, it depends on the towed array. Its performance stays pretty constant until you get close to washout speed. For the Akula, if my memory serves, they washout around 12 knots I think. American boats have the TB-16 and the TB-23 or TB-29. The TB-16 is a higher speed towed that works up to somewhere between standard and full, but has lower sensitivity. The TB-23/TB-29 work to lower speeds, more like between 2/3 and Standard, but have increased sensitivity.

Oh wow thanks for the info!
I'm specifically wondering can speed be too slow for the TA to work properly? Like in cold waters

You're welcome!

Yes, going too slow can have two major consequences: 1) the towed can drag on the bottom of the ocean if it's shallow enough and you'll have washout, 2) the towed can dip beneath a layer if you're above a layer, which can be a desired behavior, but not if you weren't planning for it lol.

Also, the slower you go, the longer it takes for the towed to turn and straighten if you order a course change. When the towed is turning (re: not straight), you can't trust the data from it. I recommend streaming generally only 25-33% of the length of American toweds, and approximately 220 m for Russian toweds in order to reduce the time it takes for the towed to straighten.

I second that.
From my observation, there is no benefit at all from extending the array by 100%, and ~30% gives you multiple advantages:

- Full sensor sensivity (from my experience)
- Can retract quickly in case of emergency
- Can go slow without dipping under a layer as Chazly said
- Way quicker to resolve ambiguous contacts
- 100% is for try-hards! :O:

Thanks for making the Tutorials
 

Thank you for taking the time to make these,, very helpful,, in giving CW a run for it's money but we will never beat the graphics ,, drool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZlhcUR90oQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msQPHxTUgzI

You're welcome :D they're both good games and quite different games haha

Hello, two questions:
1. why put in relation ship's speed and water temperature?
2. what is the undesider behaviour if the TA sinks below the layer?
Thank you

1) it doesn't matter
2) No. Sometimes this is your deliberate action (for example on surface unit).

When i want to "look" under layer i have to stream TA to almost maximum lenght. Also speed of my boat should be not too high. During game i often change depth of TA antenna.

Hello p7p8, thank you for your answer but I know that. The two questions remain and arose reading the prior posts in this thread. Water temperature will be related to SSP ok, but still... Theorically the TA can run into unwanted place like enemy ships/subs propellers or similar but I don't think that's what FPSSchazly was addressing.
1. why put in relation ship's speed and water temperature (in regards of TA usage)?
2. what is the undesired behaviour if the TA sinks below the layer?
Thank you

I think FPSchazly had in mind that if you want to search above layer but your speed is too low, TA can sink benath layer and this is undesired for your action.
(if you miss moment when TA goes under layer).

Yes, it's only undesired if you weren't planning for it to go underneath the layer or if you didn't know it could go beneath the layer.

In relation to temperature, I believe Lanzfeld was referring to the game Cold Waters and not water with low temperatures.

To clarify the responses in regards to TA sinking bellow the layer when you're searching above, the downside is that the sonar returns are heavily influenced by what kind of layer it actually is.
For example, you could be looking for a surface threat, and not detect it until very close, because your TA was dipping bellow the layer and the sound from the surface getting to your TA bellow the layer was muffled (when the SSP is higher above the layer then bellow).

There are a number of layers with different properties modeled in DW. So this explanation is rather simplistic.


EDIT: Actually chazly made a great video detailing what I was talking about:
https://youtu.be/Euy8U763N4I

I think the TA is modelled as a chain of sensors, perhaps the more sensible in the latter part of it and perhaps not, I never bothered. OTOH when it's true that streaming 1/3 of it serves almost as well as streaming the whole would be an hint in this direction. If so, when the TA is say 1/3 below the layer and 2/3 above, in the reality I would mostly get signal from below (by say 90%?). If so yes, one better knows where the tail of is TA is

I am curious to know if the TA going under the layer is actually modeled correctly or not?

I have a feeling that in the sim, the TA is actually just a straight rigid wire that pivots around the end of your frigate.

In the DW manual it states in the FFG TA section that even if the TA wire appears bent and is at XYZ depth, it is not being modeled in the sim.

I'm not really sure what's going on, this might require some multiplayer or custom mission sleuthing to figure out?

AFAIK, the towed is just a sensor at the end of a cable. There are no sensors along the cable itself. The goal is to get the sensor as far as possible from the streaming object. That distance is about 1/4 to 1/3 deployment for US subs. Beyond that, it's diminishing returns, unless you're close to some surface clutter or something where extra length means more depth of the sensor away from wave action.

It is modeled correctly, at least for subs. I've watched my towed dip beneath the layer and see all surface contacts drop off, for example. Doesn't the FFG output the array depth?

Nah, that's not correct.
Here's the AN/TB-29 for example:
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/tb-29.htm
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship...owed-array.gif

During the turn it does seem like the TA acts like a stiff tail in the horizontal plane. At least on the TMA screen of subs. Maybe that is what they meant. And that is perhaps the cause of those erroneous bearing lines before it is straightened. Those lines should not be considered valid and ought to be ignored.

The TA is so long compared to the difference in depth that the curve of it in a vertical sense makes little difference. The 3D view seems to match when it get's dragged along the bottom and starts to flush out. At very low speeds in deep depths the TA seems to droop quite vertical at the end. And iirc the bearing information received from it in those cases was quite wild and not usefull. Suggesting that the angle of the end does affect it's bearing accuracy. I don't think you can use it effectively like a helo's dipping sonar to listen into to the deep sound channel.