SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - I think the pendulum has swung too far

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- UBOAT (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=281)

- - I think the pendulum has swung too far (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=240742)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044 (Post 2604944)

I've watched several of the game play videos on You Tube, and the game does have an arcade feel about it to me. I know that nihilcat doesn't like that term, but it feels more like that than a sim to me. Maybe it needs to be in order to sell more copies. A personal gripe of mine going back to Beta testing on the SH series, is that the ships attacked are ghost ships. I remember Dan from Ubisoft telling me that that was due to the rating that could be attached to the game. Eventually, SH did introduce some activity on the ships being attacked, and I hope that this game does too. I'll purchase Uboat to support the genre, but I'll wait a few months to see what the modders do with it, before playing it. :)

Well I've played the backer demo, and I can say there is no 'arcade feel' but there is not exactly a 'sim feel' either strictly speaking. It feels like neither,
since its not a binary thing, where games are either 'sim or arcade', modern games are typically way WAY more complicated than many legacy examples of either.

honestly the term 'arcade' is so out dated, to me it doesn't really mean anything now when applied to modern games. There are few modern PC /console games that play like an Arcade - in the Street fighter II/ Daytona USA/Time Crisis sense of the word.

Even 'simulation' is misleading, since simulators only simulate the aspects deemed important enough to be simulated, the trade off is that everything else is a mishmash and given little to no care.
e.g silent hunter 3/4/5, might take care to accurately simulate a torpedo launch, but if you get rammed by a another ship, - well its 'like an arcade' your boat just bounces off and appear to be intact like it was carved out of solid titatium, the watch crew still have their feet glued to the conning tower, still peering though their binoculars as if absolutely nothing happened. hell, GTA 5 provides a better 'simulation' of a collision than Silent Hunter does.

So it really depends what parts of a game you are looking at, my theory is that if the parts we think deserved the most attention, got that level of attention then, 'its a sim' if they didn't then 'its arcade'.
Truth is, 'Arcades' and 'Sims' are more or less history at this point -And alot of the references to them in modern games is just meaningless indervidual perception.

Maybe 'video game' would be a better term than 'arcade game'. From what I've seen in online videos, what it adds in crew interaction, it loses in atmosphere. In the videos that I've watched, there isn't the same fear of detection that I enjoyed in SH3. Now, in all fairness, SH3 had to go through four significant patches and heavy modding to get there, so I'm hoping that this offering can be similarly modded. I'm happy to purchase it though. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044 (Post 2605008)

I think that will come with time,
you should see Tmtc's stream where he gets torpedoed by an MTB, if that doesn't put the fear of god in to the player, I don't know what will.
But it might just be the way the beta testers are approaching the game, in a more technical way than an immersive one.
Ill admit silent hunter did the hunter/hunted part very well indeed. but outside of that most of the game was spent staring at the navigation map and UI in time compression - that part, not so good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 2605020)

Yep. Points well made.

Im excited about the release. If there is one thing I could suggest to the developers is to try and get the hunter hunted aspect in the game. The enemy needs to be intelligent, they need to feel like an adversary.

Its all about waiting below suface after an attack for you payback, waiting for that dreaded ping ringing throuout the boat, the intricate manouvers you have make to creep away. Descending down Dangerous depths with a creaking boat. Constant reports from hydrophone, etc etc. reparing leaks. these are the most immersive and intense moments of SH. Think Das Boot. What made that film so immersive. If you guys could model some of this game play along with this awesome management and uboat system details you have now, you will have a big hit

I will be purchasing a copy to support my commrades @ subsim.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba (Post 2604038)

Can I make a counter suggestion? I too am not sure it’s the right type of game for me, however, it’s been almost a decade since a new Subsim game has been released and Ubisoft and the makers of Dangerous Waters have both given up their sequel plans.

We all know this is a niche sub genre in gaming.

We’re all in this community whether there is a new game looming or not.

My point, is that for the cost of a pizza you can support devs making these games, even if you don’t intend to play the game.

A lot of us in this community support Neal and this site, with nothing asked for in return.

Why don’t we honour and say thanks to the few devs in the world trying to keep this genre alive, rather than listing things we don’t like or want changed?

They made this; its their vision. At least until it’s fully released, let’s just buy a copy, even if we don’t play it, to show support and gratitude?

For most people here the price of entry is nothing, but it would mean the world to the greater sub community.

That’s what I intend to do, even if it’s not the game I thought it was going to be.

+1000

I'm with you guys; impressed with the developers and excited for the possibilities to come! I will buy after my next Social Security check arrives.
Let's keep politics out of the Forums; it only divides US more. Sub Captains unite!:salute:

Can't remember which one, but I'm pretty sure it was Silent Hunter 2 that had a micromanagement "mini game" built in for the crew. There was no option to make a watch bill so they would automatically go on watch and go to sleep when off duty, you had to stop every few hours to shuffle crewmembers around and tuck in the tired ones while singing them a lullaby. Repeat repeat repeat, then uninstall and go back to SH1.

At the very least there should be an option to turn off silly stuff like that so you can focus on actually playing the game.

Two years from now..the nay sayers of today will be bragging about how awesome UBOAT is and no other submarine game will ever match it... we have heard this story before.. sing along.. jus'sayin

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297 (Post 2609536)

It’s almost like that is the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044 (Post 2603949)

No, it's just that when you have to tell a crew member to get a mop and bucket in order to clean up a spill, you might wonder why that individual didn't have the initiative to do so without having to be asked. I don't think it's realistic, because U Boat sub crews were well trained. But if that kind of thing can be modded out, and the crew interaction can be more strategy and real time threat related, then it becomes interesting......to me anyway.

Im Betting that Uboat Wolwes of Steel will have AI initiative based on veterancy, So you are gonna enjoy a lot of Newbies needing to be told to Clean that freaking dirt :haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaguyinnc (Post 2609554)

Yeah, same old, same old. I would honestly be pleasantly surprised if this community actually showed some positivity towards the genre they are supposed to enjoy. There's more to it than just calculating torpedo solutions!