Realistic career length?
 

Ahoy one and all :-) long-time SH3 fan trying out the USN for the first time...got a career-based question. How does SH4 handle career length and/or retirement? I could swear I read somewhere - in the readme maybe? - that your captain will be retired after 5-8 patrols (untimely death notwithstanding), in line with historical practice.

However, I've also read that regardless of when you start your career, you keep going until war's end (unless you're incompetent and get sacked). So you could end up with 20+ patrols and over 1,000,000 tons sunk, which is silly. So, can anybody advise me as to which is right? I'm running v1.5 (U Boat Missions add-on) with RFB 2.0 and RSRDC, for what it's worth. If only there was an SH3Commander equivalent...

Anyway, thanks in advance for any info that might be forthcoming :-)

They are ~all~ correct... :o :arrgh!:

It somewhat depends upon the mod used, if any, and how the "UpgradeClass=" for the subs are set, and several similar settings for the player and career. Ducimus had a post a good while back about poor, good, and excellent single patrols, their scores and how they affected not only the career score, but also equipment upgrades and getting new boats (I cannot find the link to the post yet). If you do well enough, you can "buy" your way into more patrols for a longer career by use of your renown. But if you do poorly - sometimes on just one patrol - and you might be told to "retire". Medium-level scores will get you out of the game, but 'honorably' with a stint in BuOrd, or the New London Sub School, or maybe admin staff at Pearl, but the game still ends there. They do seem to do good with the "simulation" of career length variability in SH4...

One of the problems we've noticed with not only Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, but other major mods (and Stock) is that if you do too well early, you might be assigned a new boat, but it will be just prior to the boat's actual availability in-game. For whatever reason, you get assigned the boat, and then retired. It appears to have to do with the fact that there are no assigned patrols for the "early" boat given to the player. So we've been noodling with ways of preventing such in FotRSU. It is a tough situation to test for though... You have to do well with patrols, and I seem to never be able to get past a few patrols before I'm sunk... :har: :salute:

Thanks for the info :-) I'd be very interested in reading that Ducimus post if you can find it. Sounds like the answer is to do well...but not *too* well...although based on your experience I'll probably find staying alive challenge enough ;-) anyway, thanks again!

There is a little discussion about the grading in the TMO manual.

Thanks for the tip, will check it out :-)

Thanks for the info



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According to the excellent SH1 1.3 manual (which also contains inside views from Bud Gruner), it was exceptional that US skippers were ordered for more than 4 war patrols. Some skippers managed to 'avoid' this rule however.
So if you want to compare your tonnage to real skippers, then play realistic and don't count your tonnage anymore after 4 patrols done.



XS

Before I left SH 4 for a while i toyed round with promotion etc and made it so don't make rank so fast, so don't have a Captain commanding a submarine. Was fairly common for Lcdr to make Cdr after some good patrols during war time. Played around with the dates renown as well.

As a personal rule. I typically run a career for 4-6 patrols and then call it a career since historically 4-6 patrols and they were relieved. Some of the early war skippers got a second go, such as Lawson P. Ramage, who had some success in the Trout in 42/43 but came back with a vengeance in Parch in 1944, earning the Medal of Honor. I've played from start of war until the end, no big deal other than staying alive (lol). The ending is anti climatic, again something where devs dropped the ball. A more suitable ending would be if playing toward the end, receive a message to transit to tokyo bay as part of surrender.


What should be modeled in the game(if possible) is when player gets a new command, especially a new construction boat, should be a time break and even with new construction should have to go through sea trials etc. Something the devs should have modeled a long with new things. This would keep career tracks a bit more historical.

Never had that happen before where I was retired for doing so bad. I guess that is because I get like 70,000 tons + per patrol. :D

Might explain why I am promoted so fast like I'm a Captain by mid-1942-ish

My personal take on all this is, promotions are too fast tracked, if you have a lot of good or great patrols. Why is this an issue, well.. let's examine for such being the case. :hmmm:

First & foremost, the game replaces units faster than the participants in r/l ever could or did. This is 1 serious downside to the whole immersion factor of the game.

Should you be fortunate, to actually make it from start to finish of the war, the total tonnage you'd end up with.. would in all probability, majorly surpass, if NOT out strip the actual tonnage, much less ships that Japan was able to put to sea.

As I understand it, with regards to promotion & the key elements that fuel it/drive it or much less govern the promotional chain, is tied into successful patrols & gross tonnage sank. If I am wrong on this, then by all means point out where I am wrong on that.. I won't be offended in the slightest. As I stated, this is what My out take is on the promotion process in game.

1 thing that I can recall with clarity, is that with SH3, thanks to JScones of SH3Commander, this tool working with the files of it resolved the issues with career length, in that it simulated career length (as realistically as was possible all things considered...). The only chief issue I have is that there was never 1 done up for SH4, or much less SH5 as well... ahh well...

Promotions seem too fast tracked? :hmmm:



maybe its just the mod I am using, (FOTRSU 1.1,) but in my game, its curently November 3, 1942, and I started my career at war's begining in december 41. I have so far completed 5 war patrols and sunk 40 ships totaling 290,000 tons during the course of said patrols.


And I've still yet to be promoted once! :damn:

Fritz Klum, if you click on the captain's picture on the desk while in the base, you can go from tab to tab to see your rank.

I got that good the enemy surrendered in 1943, the war was over lol. :)

Upon reviewing what I previously stated, Fritz Klum, when I stated about promotions being to fast tracked.. was with what I recalled with SH4 vanilla or stock, if you will...

With regards to using FotRSU-EN v1.1 (or heck, even with any of the other U.S. based mega's prior to FotRS, to be frank..) I have nary a clue if that wasn't reworked to reflect proper promotional aspects.

It could very well be, that this aspect was toned down some. To date, I have yet to get past a couple weeks, much less a month of patrol before having to dump that career in favor of updating either the main mod or a couple of the other 'eye candy' add ons that I followed from Fernando De Cicco's suggestions, over on FB.

that's NOT including the mod mix I have with Fred8615's pre Pearl mod added in ( I have 2 SH4's running, by the way. :D in addition to the stock FotRSU mod mix, bringing the total up to 3. Stock FotRS v1.1, The De Cicco's mod mix version & then the De Cicco's mod mix... with Fred's pre Pearl add in...)

That does NOT include the Op. Monsun Enhanced: Dark Waters, We dive at Dawn mix (which am working on concocting a radio mod, primarily for Myself.. but... may see of adding it to the download tabulation if things work that way to doing so.. will see, have some stuff to do before I get to that stage yet.. :yep: is more info I need concerning an aspect of radio workings in game that I've yet to find an answer on... :o:/\\!! would be nice if others who have knowledge on all things radio could make their presence known...)

Getting back to the meat of the discourse.. sorry, I get side tracked rather easily, when it is a subject I'm strongly into... :oops:

Perhaps, 1 who is intertwined with FotRSU.. could answer that aspect of the whole promotional bell ringer aspect of it all.. and let it be known if such is the case, or if it is being worked on or what... as to be frank, I wouldn't mind knowing the answer to that, Myself. :up:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute: