Well, well...SH3 will never die , no?:DL

Thanks again hsie for this new fresh air for Sh3! It´s awesome!:up:
Works flawless!

@LGN1: wow...great news on Iambe new mod!Thanks to share the info!

Hi Rubini,

I was very excited when I saw Iambecomelife's post in the screenshot thread. I immediately started to think how he does it. My guess is via an airplane, but I don't know. I hope he will come up with some more details in the near future. It looks very promising! Would be a great addition.

Cheers, LGN1

PS: Sorry, h.sie, for the off-topic post. I just thought many are interested in Iambecomelife's post and you do not expect such news in the screenshot thread. Maybe Iambecomelife opens a dedicated thread for it.

Hi LGN1,

don't worry about being off-topic. It is very interesting information and I'm looking forward for news regarding wolfpacks. missing or only pseudo-wolfpacks now are the biggest weak point in sh3 in my opinion.

now I start to look deeper into the CO2 issue.

h.sie

Hi h.sie,

great that you are looking into the CO2 issue :up: Thanks a lot. Here is again all the information I have about it:

In-game times (independent of number of crewmen and silent running setting):

IIA: 30h
VIIC: 36h
IXB/IXD2: 40h
XXI: 46h

Historical technical requirements:
IIA/D: ?
VIIC: 72 hours with 37 men
IXC: 72 hours with 44 men
XXI: 150 hours with 50 men

Unfortunately, I don't have any information about the type II. However, I think it is also the least important one because it's mainly used in the early war and in this period you do not need to stay submerged for long periods of time.

From the dials.cfg it seems that the CO2 value in game is between 0 and 1:

[Dial43]
Name=CO2 level
Type=39; DIAL_CO2
Dial=0x0
CrtVal=0x3F300004
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-90,90
RealVal=0,1; normalized
Circular=Yes

It would be great if one could make the CO2 build-up dependent on the number of crewmen and the 'silent running' setting. In this case the 'silent running' setting would become more important and you would be punished for leaving the harbor with as many men as possible.

Once again, thanks for all your efforts!

Cheers, LGN1

If anyone have problems with incorrect sh3.exe version, please contact me by PM. But beware! The correct sh3.exe works only with legal SH3 ;)

LGN1: I wouldn't say "punished", as in the early war historical crews were as stated - after all the designed crew for a Type VII is 4/16/24 (44), but historical records show crew at time of loss for various VII series boats run from 35-53, especially when the "supernumary" types like fahnrich (cadets), war correspondents, propaganda officers and the like are factored in. Not to mention manning all the added flak guns, etc ....

Hi Draka,

I agree 'punished' is the wrong word. What I meant is that the number of men has a stronger influence, especially it has also a negative one. At the moment you don't have any disadvantage from taking as many men with you as possible. I don't think that's realistic. If the submerged endurance is reduced depending on your crew size, you also have an advantage of taking less men with you. I like this idea.

Cheers, LGN1

What I've done so far:

- Identified variable which contains the CO2 level.
- Found assembler routine which modifies/cumulates that variable.
- Found a way how to determine Hex-address of Silent - Running - Status Flag. (As most of the variables, it changes it's address, every time one starts the game)

So I am lightly optimistic that some CO2 manipulation can be done.
Next milestones for the next days:

- Find out how to determine number of currently living crew members. dead men don't breathe. (maybe difficult?)
- Determine U-Boat Type
- Modify the assembler routine accordingly.

Even if I am unable to find the number of living crew members, it seems possible to enlarge diving times and consider the Silent-Running. That would be an progress.

Or alternatively I could take the number of crew at mission start.

h.sie

h.sie,
sounds like you are making good progress, keep it the good work.it is much appreciated.

I am currently thinking about 3 things regarding CO2:

1) Gameplay balance. If, lets say, in-game the destroyer attacks do not last longer than 5 hours, but in reality they did last 10 hours, IMHO it's better for gameplay balance to fit the max. diving times to the attack duration of the game and not according to historical data. Otherwise you would never get problems with CO2.

2) Silent-Running. Not sitting at my gaming PC. Is it possible to do Silent Running with more than "Ahead slow" speed? If not, Silent Running is not the right condition to affect CO2 cumulation (because it must be possible to drive faster than "Ahead Slow", but with all crew members lying in bed, breathing slow). Maybe it would be better to find out if repairs are done or not and use that information to affect CO2 cumulation ?

3) Would it make sense to drastically enlarge CO2 cumulation (or add an constant amount to the CO2 level) if one of the batteries is heavily damaged, in order to simulate Chloride in the air?

Many ideas may arise, but unfortunatly the problem is always to implement them. For example, I don't know if it's possible to find the damage variables of the batteries....they change their address every time a game is started.

h.sie

Here some input;
#
#

As for the CO, I think a approach between Realism and Game play would be best. Like you said!

For example my longest DC session was 6 real time hours ( I was playing W@W with GWX2.1 back then ).
Since it's a game, i paused many times and at one point i went to bed and resumed the next day.

So Giving the player the air reserves to last up to 4 full day is a bit much.

For dramatic purpose and balance CO should still be an important factor.

A balance between GWX standard and Realism + a few hours bonus to simulate the LI using some of his precious reserves would´be sound.

#
#
The silent running is only possible under 50rpm. Silent running affects the outside noise of your sub, with the low RPM to curb engine and screw noise.
And there was of cause the no working and talking or moving around condition in the boat.
I always assumed that this is the most economic way of air use. I remember my Gibraltar Mission (not RL ;) ) where I had this idea too silent run through the gap.

I came far, but CO got critical and I had to wait late into the night to surface for a quick breather.

#
#
The chloride Idea is a good one, and I think adding a fixed CO penalty is better, there is also the Breathing set every crew member owned.
Which at one point would be utilized to fight the chloride Gases.

So giving a fixed amount of CO penalty after a battery is damaged sounds good to me.

But if you decide to enlarge the overall CO capabilities like they were in RL, then you could also easily stick to the ever increasing chloride gas idea ( CO rise due to the gases. Since the constant rise of CO could balance the enlarged CO capabilities...

I have no account, nor any good source on those matters. How common were damaged batteries and chloride gas problems??
Does a broke or leaking Battery is considered heavy damage?

--

Geeez I hope my rant didn't bore you to tears. But you have some really great ideas and I feel that this mod (patch)fix) whatever- will be the best thing that happened to SH3

Hi Myxale: Thanks for your input.

What I meant regarding Silent running: If engines run with high rpm but crew is in bed and does nothing but breathing slow - this is not called Silent Running, but the CO2 must cumulate slowly.

So my thought was not to use the silent-running to affect CO2 cumulation, but much more the question wheter crew does repairs or not. this is more accurate IMHO, but I don't know if I can implement that.

h.sie

Great news H.Sie !! congrats ....!!!!!:yeah::yeah:
oh ...i really like the WO behaviour now !! you are doing a fine job here !!!

and ,also, it is great that you will post the Hex-positions,data formats for individual adjustments ! that means that we can change the range 'faulse' to fit to our tastes ,right ?

this guy ....Iambecomelife is full of (real good) surprises.....:up:

Regarding Chlorine and other toxic gasses I can only comment on my experiences from my Chemistry and O-Chem lab classes I took as an undergrad. Having breathed said toxic gasses (either through my own experiments and accidents, or turning head first into someone elses) unless you've got a hood or other way to suck the contaminated air out it will persist. While the source can be neutralized to stop more gas from being created you still have to deal with what's made it out into the main compartments.

One suggestion (albeit kind of a cruel one) would be to use the crew as human air scrubbers with their escape gear (since sub-wide air scrubbers didn't exist till many years later) and in-game loose hp over time (for those in the affected compartments) - pretty much would mean that the repair crew are the ones that take the damage. Since compartments could still be sealed, if the aft batteries were damaged by the forward intact, crewmen in bad shape could go to the stern quarters to recooperate and regain hp (would actually make having an officer with a medic qualification beneficial) until they're ready to go back to repair work. Chlorine gas is the worst, since it's short 1 electron from being balanced any chance it gets to bind with something it will - which on a sub was really only one thing - a persons lungs (or the carbon in the respirators if they were wearing one); otherwise the gas will linger around as a snow white looking cloud until something is done about it.

One thing I was going to ask about specifically, though this thread answers it is that the amount of current crew doesn't reduce CO2 production. I rarely have a full complement on my sub, usually at least 3-5 (somtimes more) people less than the max allowed on the sub. Even if the sub never takes any damage, the crew would use up less O2 simply with there being less being consumed. While you can't increase the amount of air contained in the sub, with less people consuming it CO2 will be produced at a slower rate regardless, you should be able to stay submerged longer with a crew of 40 than a crew of 51 on the same kind of boat.

This whole range-estimation thing is great! :rock: Something I've been wishing for since the game was released.

I'm so afraid of messing everything up that I'm going to wait until you declare the project finished to try installing it, but I'm still here to cheer you on. :sunny: