Turkey's new sultan Erdoghan seems to have gotten what he wanted, a new state order with him as the strong Führer, so the coup he staged last year (I take it for granted that he has been the driving force behind it) and the tens of thousands of journalists, critics, intellectuals arrested, finally have paid off. Thats is no surprise, since a majority of the Turks has voted for Erdoghan and the AKP. However, the gap between Ynd Nay is exytremely close, a hair's width only.

Considering the last detail, the narrowness of this decision, somethign else catches the attention. Of the Turks in Germany, two in three have voted for the change in Turkey.

What does this say about their willingness to integrate into the state order in Germany, and their attitude towards "democracy"? A rethoric question only, I do not wait for answers, since everybody can know them already. Its like I always said. Integration of Turks in Germany, as integration of Mulsim groups in Germany and in Europe in general, is a disaster story. It has failed, due to active resistence by the "migrants". Colonists is a better word.

The last echoes of the old Kemalistic order has been swept away now. The old Turkey of pre-Erdoghan times is no more. The militrary now by majopirty supports erdoghan, and has betrayed its function as guardian of the Kemalist constitution. Which again is no surprise, sinc eErdighan since one decade has systematically exchnaged the officer corps and has made sure that his followers advance through the ranks in record time, to bring them in control of the armed forces.

Merkels reaction? She appealed to Erdoghan to be reaosnable. This while 15 German nationals are held in arrest since months and all embassy contact to them being rejected, Turkey'S intelligence service being probabaly th emost actove and one of the most hostile ones in Germans, erdoghan critics are being hunted and targetted by Turkish agents in Germany, and the offences by Erdoghan do not end.

I have started to read the German ediiton of this book by Jason brennan, "Against democracy". One of these bhooks that make you aware of how rotten and misled the fundament of our western order is. We get what we asked for, and so we deserve it.

63 percent of Turks living in Germany voted FOR Erdoghan.
What a pity that the vote was secret, otherwise i would really like those 63 percent to migrate to, and live in, the new Turkey.

Freedom and Democracy in action!

They already do. New Turkey is here in Germany and Europe. Haven't you noticed that yet?:-?:dead:

Here's erdogan's upcoming speech. I understand it's top secret, though! So keep it to yourself..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieolhEpRjkQ

http://www.emersonkent.com/speeches/returning_fire.htm

One shall reap what one sows.

I don'T recall exactly how often I was congratulated for being German when I were in the ME and North africa and Turkey - and got told how proud we Ger,mans should be that we managed to kill so many Jews. Great achievement. And they meant this as a serious complimentent. I heard that in Egypt, Turkey, Iran.

We did not. Back in those days when it all started, and the social ministry were in socialist SPD hands, it was the SPD tellig the Germans that the Turks were of a culture that would not integrate well. But Washington put Germany under massive pressure and effectively blackmailed Germany, because Washington wanted NATO compliance by Turkey and the right to station missiles there - and Turkey said the price for that woiuld be that germany takes up all the poor and hungry masses from Anatolian heartland that Turkey did not want to come up for. And so it started - against the explicit German will not to get them.

So againb, to make this one clear - Germany in the 50s and 60s started n egotiaitosn with Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia to have guests workers coming to germany. Turkey was EXCLUDED from the German wishlist. It was Washsington that forced Germany to let the Turks in, and then it was Washington that demanded that the treaties with Turkey limiting the stay and banning the family movement should be ignored.

It is not our job to integrate them - they are the foreigner sin our place, and they are the once who came here fromt heir hoem country. Our place, our rules, one would assume. The absolute minimum that one can and must demand from foreign migrants is that they integrate into the rules and habits and society of the new place they went to. That is their mandatory obligaiton, their duty that they have to fill, without conditions, period. Its not up to the local population and owners of the palce to adapt to the foreigner - the foreigner has to adapt to the local residents. In other words: as a migrant, you have to integrate yourself. You do not get integrated, nor do you expect to have others integrating you. You have to do it yourself.

The treaties wioth Turkey bakc from the early 60s said that all Turkish guest workers had to leave the country again after I think 5 or ten years, I am not certain. that were the same treaties signed with other coutnries as well: Greece, Italy, Yugoslavia. Also, it was originally banned to shuttle in families once the father had arrived in Germany. Twenty years later, indeed most Italians, Yugos, Greek started to return, only a few left in germany, well integrated and doiung their own business, mosly restaurants. Just the Turks never moved. Never integrated. They shuttled their families in, and Washington demanded from Germany to ignore the treaties signed, after Turkey set up new conditions for their compliance regarding NATO policies. Just later the solcial polkcies in germany chnaged radically, and the left found their heart for the Turks, since orginbally the vast majority of Muslim migrants, and so the Turks, voted SPD, and so the "migration" of theirs to germany was a welcomed strengtening of the SPD's voters' pool.

Point taken, you are right on this. I complained about this myself before already. Its stupid. Even now, yesterday, some Green female carricature - Claudia Roth, a very special friend of mine - demanded that after 2 in 3 Turks voted for Erdoghan and in the Ruhrgebiet even 3 in 4, that this was Turkish revenge for the Germans not being welcoming enough and that we need to give them even more and easier double-citizenships and German passports... For retards like this woman, it is always us who are guilty. Strangely, problems with migrants we do not have in general at all, and the Greeks, and Italians and former Yugoslavs, and Spaniards, all that did not return to their homecountries but stayed here, are well integrated and are fine and there are no problems. It is just one special subgroup of migrants that time and again pose problems, and that is Muslims. Since Turks are the dominant Muslim faction, Turks are overrepresented therefore. Also overrepresented in crime statistics, in bad school scorings, social wellfare net receiving, unemployement. Usually you do not find many Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Dutch, Danish, Polish, French, Brits, Americans, Canadians, South Americans in these negative statistics. But when you look at a Muslim migrant group, the negative statistcs scorings immediaterly go up.

And that is our fault...?

No. Its their fault.


Again, guilty as charged. They use our own stupidity and cowardice against us. Its our own German idiocy. We think we mjst always demonstate to the world that we are not the evil bad Germans anymore, that we are no Nazis anymore. To modern Germans, standing up for legitimate German rights equals Nazism. Thats why the Greek - on the Euro-crisis - and the Turks swing the Nazi-club against us so unrestrained, and comploare Germns to Nazis the moment Germans, Germany do not comply with their demands.

That FdJ-agitator and propagandist Angela Merkel led Germany into that "refugeee-deal" with Turkey, making Germany extrmeely vulnerale for blakcmailign and abise that way, of course also has somethign to do with it. Merkel'S cabinet wanted to close the borders when they realsied what a desaster they had unleashed back in 2015 - and then they shied away since they feared the power of the images in the intenraitonal press once the borders would have been shut down. None of the whole cabint crew was willing to take that responsibility, these cowardish traitors.

They take the rights but not the duties. Mostly, they are still better off with their lives over here, than they would be in Turkey. But complaining and criticising they nevertheless can, and remaning Turkish by hearts. Like so many Muslim migrant groups, the Turks never came to Germany to leave again, or to integrate. The guest workers from other countries did - not the Turks.

Add to the religious thing the ultra-strong Turkish nationalism, and then you have it.

Me too. As I usually say, and I mean that serious: Germans are hysteric romantics. They do not cooly calculate, that is just a stupid cliche. Germans want to feel. They think with the heart. And that is why they are so vulnerable for appeals to their sentiments and lower instincts. That explains a lot of the dramas in German history.

Thinking is for cold-hearted traders, ios for the much hated englische Krämerseele. We do not rationalise. We feel!

Or better - they feel like this. Myself, I do not feel typically German at all. And I am not a typical German. I am a foreigner in my own country of birth. Too cold-blooded and heartless I am, I get told. Too rational.

"Rational" - in Germany, that is an offence! ;) Well, I thank for the compliment that it indeed is.

^ ;)

Forgive the many typos that I produce en masse, I just cannot type well, and I am too lazy and too impatient to correct my texts endlessly once I am finished, an unforgivable character flaw, I know I know... :) . "Was Hänschen nicht lernt, lernt Hans nimmermehr." (= What young Hans[chen] has never learnt, old Hans will not learn anymore. )

edit:
P.S. The treaty I referred to, was signed by a government under Konrad Adenauer CDU) in 1961, after such treaties were signed with Spain, Greece in the imminent years directly before. The German demnd for workers was immense at that time. The German history telling is uncomplete on it usually, for the importane of the conflict between Adenauer and Ludwig Erhard (SPD) gets usually ignored. Adenauer thought of the economy as a tool that had to obey foreign political paradigms, where as Erhard, only formally a SPD member but in fact a libertarian and economic realist (father of the so-called German Wirtschaftswunder), spoke against this view and poitned out that economic laws, like natural laws, could not be violated without damaging the economy sooner or later. Both men were at odds with each other, and since Erhard was a very untypical politicians not caring for party borders, he managed to collect the hositlity of all parties - despite the fundamental truth and success of his policies. Erhard was strictly against the Turks, saying that their culturla background and European culture would not match well. Adenauer wanted to obey the Ameican demands, to establish Germany better again oin the American poltical radar, since Germany at that tiem still was nothign more than juist a tiny, obdient vasall, which it remaiend to be for even more decades to come. And so the decision on the Turkish treaty was shifted from Erhard's ministry of ecnomy to the foreign ministry, which obeyed Adenauer.

After signing of the treaty with Turkey (and before that, Spain, Italy, Greece), more such treaties were signed with Tunesia, Southkorea, Yugoslavia, and Portugal.

And a correction: the so-called rotation principle, that demanded workers to leave again, said that the time they could stay was just 2 years (not 5 or 10 years as I qoted by memory above).

The final verdict on the guest worker strategy is controversial. While some say it made sure the industry in Germany of the 60s and 70s could grow, others point out that only heavy industrial structures were supported by this, while new technologies and new economic foci were hindered by it. Considering the immense negative heritage the massive Muslim migration has caused for Germany from then until today, I tend to see it mostly negative. The consequences of it, the price we pay for it, have become evident not before the early 90s. But since then they grew into something that now has run out of of control. The genie is out of the bottle - biggest mistake Europe made since 1933 and 1939.

Our forces are in a bad shape indeed - but I doubt the articles accuracy since it claims we have 4 class 212 submarines, when we have 6 since 2016. That's why I never rely on anything military coming from the 'regular' media.

Just the other day I read an article about "the Russian Akula class" which was about the (Nato) typhoon class - picturing a pr971 in the header. Ouch.
That's a good example why not to take the press serious when it's about anything military.

According to German foreign minister Siegmar Gabriel (SPD), repairing the existing forces' hardware and maintaining their broken equipment, just that - not increasing its quantity - would be an irresponsible starting shot for a new round in an arms race that could provoke Russia.

Instead, according to BW Kindergardener von der Leyen and Gabriel, drilling waterholes in Africa and building schools in the orient shall be counted for the defence costs formula ("2% of the GDP"), with the hope being that Russia might feel deterred by these dangerous threats and start no military troubles, not just in africa and the orient, but in the baltic region as well, which, as everybody knows, borders directly to Africa and the orient.

And just days ago it was reported that over half of the vehicles and helicopters used by the BW in Mali - yes, Mali - are broken down due to the temperatures, and are immobilised. Isn't there a saying like: if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen...?

There is very strong Turkish nationalism in Germany. So-called radicals like Salafists have multiplied by severla factors, and have multiplied the number of their sympathisers. Islam is more untouchable for criticism than 10 years ago, public opinion is in open retreat over it - or faces strict demonizations as right-wing thinking, Nazi-thinking, racist thinking. Islam has boosted its stand and influence in public services and public society, and there are more mosques than before. Number of Muslim migrants has been growing already before the crisis of 2015. Politicians now discuss openly more extra ways and extra rules for Islam, leading as far as considering a special legislation just for Islam (no other religion got that). The problems with Muslim juveniles at schools have massively grown, parallel societies have grown as well, crime has grown as well, and the number of Arab and Turkish hate crimes against Jewish citizens and juveniles at schools have dramatically increased. There are more Shariah courts and police and state attorneys complain that thes ehave made police work and research over crimes and filed complaints fundamentally more complicated, often impossible. Its a second, parrallel justice system that Muslims turn to - and the state and its laws then are locked out. And we still allow that...

The majoriy of Muslims once again were found that they do not want to live side by side with Jews, and would not like to see marriages of their kids with infidels. Instead they press hard for having symbolism of so-called political Islam being established in government and public services, which most dominantly is tried with the head scarf, a fighting symbol for political Islam par exellence. The dust over this still has not settled. And when it eventually would settle, they will come up with something else in a bid to keep us on our toes, falling back.

The mess has grown. The denial of politicians and multiculti ideologists has grown as well. Have you seriously expected the trend to reverse...?

Not even mentioning the devastated relations with Erdoghanistan.

This all explaisn why AfD and Pegida have become stronger in recent years. Some Nazis in there, yes. But by far not all of them. You find a mix of all civil society in there.

Muslim apostates and critical Muslim migrants try still to warn us, but many of them in recent years have given up, some have left Germany in disbelief and dissapintment that Germany allows in what they once have fled from when leaving their original home countries.

We are Germans. We still hold our illusions strong and high. We know Islam better than Islam knows itself. Thats why we do not stop explaining it what it is - and what it should simply stop being.

Integration of Muslim colonists from North africa and the Middle East has failed. But not just in Germany, but in all of Europe where you have greater numbers of Muslim colonists. Britain. Sweden. Netherlands. France. Germany. Its not just a German but a European mess. A politically wanted and still boosted mess.

Migrants from Asia, North and South America, Europe, statistically seem to be not posing problems, not to my knowledge at least. If they are skilled and have something to offer that is needed in our countries, they are welcomed. Last year I read somewhere that many Jews have started to flee from Germany due to the Arabs pouring into Germany. I really regret that, with them goes plenty of wittiness and courage. We lose these in exchange for who predominantly will remain to be social wellfare net receivers. We have the statistics ont hsi for the past 60 years, haven't we. Their message is very clear.

Integration fails becasue those who have to integrate by mandatory duty, still refuse to do so my vast majority. Part of that majority turns noisy, but most are passively resisting integrating. The damage done by both, is the same.

Thats why I deliberately DO NOT MIND those 63% you mentioned. I only mind those who indeed are already apostates of Islam, no matter whether they realise that or still deny that.

After all it still is what many appeasers fanatically deny it is: a clash of civilizations and totally different values and views on society and individual. You cannot have compromise between totalitrianism and racism on the one side (and that is what Islam is about), and liberty and humanism on the other side. You cannot have a compromise regarding poisoned food, if the poison is lethal in even smallest quantities. Any such compromise results in you eating lethally poisoned food. Accepting that qualifies you for the Darwin Award, and I applaude and congratulate every happy winner.

Things are either against the law or they are not. Religious believe doesn't justify physical violence or psychological abuse against any citizen here in the western world. Just like we have to teach children what they can and cannot do we have to be apparently bold enough nowadays to teach immigrants how far they can go with their religion and their way of life. If Merkel and cohorts refuse or fail to do so then I suggest to show her the door this september so that she can work full time as an 'advisor' somewhere for her lobby friends..

One side note, though, when you talk about turkish immigrants, just like how trump talked about mexicans, please keep in mind that they're all individuals, too. It kinda comes across paranoid sometimes to me when ppl like trump talk about immigrants from that very remote prespective where all immigrants secretly plan evil schemes against the state.. They are not doctor evil, you know..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs

German-Israeli relations since long are no longer what they have been, or are claimed to be.

http://www.dw.com/en/netanyahu-snubs...gos/a-38438090

http://www.dw.com/en/netanyahu-accus...ess/a-38619398

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1145297.html

What Gabriel did, was a planned provocation, no doubt. It compares to a foreign politician visiting Germany, but before meeting the federal president or chancellor or cabinet, meeting - with press - survivors of the Red Army Faction, or some Reichbürger denying the relevance of the German state. If this would be done, it would naturally be taken as an intentional offence and woulkd asue a diplomatic row. But when Gabriel meets organisations that attack the very basis of Israel's existence and defame Israeli soldiers in general - he demands the Israelis to sit still?

Like that psychoanalyst said: the Germans will never forgive the Jews Auschwitz. And if modern Jews do not listen to German moral lecturing based the grounds of suicidal denial of reality, their guilt weighs even heavier and the German anger boils even hotter.

I think the jews should have gone to america after ww2 to settle somewhere in iowa or ohio like the amish. The thought of spearheading right into your archenemy's territory to start a freaking living sounds insane to me.. Like having a family picnic right inside a serpentarium.. Both sides are obviously unreasonable and because of news like that which always play the same old song for decades now I would really rather see those which started the mess fixing it than us being involved.. I don't like that I am constantly reminded by such news that I am supposed to have an opinion about it even when it obviously was a bad idea right from the start.. Go deal with it yourself, whoever came up with it..

Am I crazy, a nazi or simply stupid for thinking that? I really don't know..

Just that they make - religiously founded - claim for that piece of land since 3000 years, plus minus a bit maybe. Like the others that are up against them, and they are up against. Crazy? Maybe, strategically I think Israel is in a most exposed position. But tell that a historically grown, 3 millenia old identity. Some things are non-negotiable to "identity" - else it is not this identity. In the end, Israel is the most advanced society model in that chaotic region of the world, and beside Jordan and sometimes Egypt the only reason-driven actor there. Look around there - any other corner down there is a mess, or a cave, and often both.

Their identity is their religion, has always been until 1947. There was the Kingdom of Judah bordering to the Kingdom of Israel, some jews in Persia, err "Iran" lol. The city states inhabited by "jews" thousands of years ago were surrounded by lots of other city states inhabited by all other kinds of tribes and religions and opinions why to slaughter their neighbour, all battling and scrapping against each other, and then Rome against all. It was not "their" land. They have the same right to settle there as anyone else.
It is a very dumb notion to claim "your" country and "blood" only because you are born a mile east or west of a border, river, or channel, or in another country's city state some thousand years ago. Genetics will tell you.

I can perfectly understand the jews' urge and the necessity to finally have an own nation of "Israel", so all jews can live there without being harrassed or chased in foreign lands. But give the same right to those who have lived there for millenia, too. I do not see a two-state solution coming, instead all went haywire with the assassination of Rabin just of all by a right-wing israeli, followed just of all by a right-wing government trying to justify illegal settling in regions not exactly belonging to Israel. So you say Germany should be quiet about all this because "the past"? Wasn't it you just saying "we are too servile"? Depends, eh?

Germany will support Israel without question, and imho rightly so, but do not mistake them for angels. Maybe reading "The little drummer girl" would be in order, to understand both sides.

There were state elections in Schleswig-Holstein today. The Merkel Party defeated the red socialists, but the biggest group again where the non-voters (34%). The complete result that relatives the official numbers against the electorate:

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33132480/Unbenannt.jpg

The messiah of the red socialists Martin Schultz since quite some time now has lost support and momentum, and of the initial enthusiasm after he declared that he runs for the job of chancelor, nothing is left. As things currently look, Merkel will run another four years.

After elections in the Saarland, this is the sxecond fo three tests before the national elections that the red socialists have lost wqith flying colkours. Last come elections in Northrhine-Westphalia, with the ruling red government there showing a ruinous record and loiusy reputation, but it is the federal state with the biggest population and many left voters (low working class, migrants, Turks).

After ErdoghanS staged coup against himself, between 400 and 500 Turkish soldiers fled to Germany and asked for asylum, coming from Turkey and NATO garrisons and posts in europe, mainly Brussel headquarters, where they were stationed. Also some Turkish diplomats asked in Germany for asylum. They first such permissions have just been granted. If the people in question comply with local culture, behavior and rules, I'm okay with that. However, I am certain the great Sultan is not okay with it. :D Knowing that the Turkish intel service hunts down critics and unwanted minds even in Germany, with a nnetwork of around 5000 active agents and spies, plus the official long arms of the Turkish state in Germany - DITIB and the Turkish state-sent Imams - the refugees could get asylum in Germany, and still be in danger. The Turkish secret service is described to be more active in Germany than the Stasi every was active in the FRG of the cold war.

^then the answer may be simpler than the remedy but root them out and deport them.