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View Full Version : XO: "We're running low on provisions, sir!"


Safe-Keeper
08-30-2006, 12:11 PM
After some people brought this up, I thought I'd see what the community as a whole thought of it.

Do you want supplies of provisions (a.k.a. food and fresh-water) and spare parts (for repairs and fixing of break-downs, for example) to be finite in Silent Hunter IV? I personally think it'd be a good idea, as it'd put a limit on patrol time other than torpedoes, gun ammunition, and critical damage or crew deaths. There were, as far as I know, quite a few times in reality when subs had to return home due to food reserves being depleted, rather than due to torpedoes being expended (which is often the case here).

Furthermore, it can't be that time-consuming to add (note that I'm not really into programming here:oops:). Just two more variables (provisions and spare parts) and some triggers that increases fatigue and eventually causes death when food runs low and which makes repairs less effective (components cannot be repaired to "normal", for example) or impossible when spare parts run low.

Footnotes
* (in poll): "Yesh" includes "yes, but only if it's a realism option".

Ark
08-30-2006, 12:17 PM
That would be great, IMO.

I always felt that things such as that could only add to the immersion factor.

Hylander_1314
08-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Don't forget about the cook who can toss a couple grenades over the side from time to time. I wouldn't do it in a combat zone, but out in the open ocean, or around friendly islands should be safe enough.

Now where did I stow that fishing rod! Oh Captains Quarters that's where.

Threadfin
08-30-2006, 01:04 PM
Food shortages simply were not an issue on US fleet boats, with an occasional exception, usually bad water. They were among the best provisioned combat units anywhere. Good food and plenty of it. They even baked their own cakes to celebrate sinkings while on patrol. They had fresh water distilleries, refrigerators and freezers. This should be a non-issue for SH4 in my opinion. Life on a US fleet boat was not Das Boot. They could take showers, could do laundry, had good food, movies for entertainment. US fleet boats like Gato, Balao and Tench were far more livable than some seem to imagine.

Maybe for S-boats, but they're not in there. I would vote no in the poll, but there's no "No. It was not an issue in reality, and therefore should not be included in SH4". That would get my vote. If you could perhaps name some patrols in WW2 by US fleet boats in the Pacific that were terminated due to running out of food perhaps I would change my mind. Maybe with P-class there were issues, I'm not sure of their provision arrangement, whether it was more like the S-class or more like the Balao for example.

The spare parts thing is fine, but only if coupled with a detailed damage and breakdown model.

Capt. D
08-30-2006, 03:19 PM
I have to vote no on the provision issue also. Of all the books I've read on US subs I never read anything about becoming low on provisions. Water at times was an issue as water for the batteries and cooking was priority and showeres though available were not a daily common thing. When taking showers one had to do the wet down - off with the water - soap up - rinse off and then off with the water again.

Our subs - especially the Tambors on up - were like palaces vs the U-Boats. Having read some of their stories I remember many a mention of spoiled food. Also if you go on site of the U-505 in Chicago and take the virtual tour take a look at the galley in that boat! It's a wonder anything got cooked! Take a virtual tour of the USS Cod, Silversides and the Cavalla and just look at the difference of the galley.

I do think that spare parts were an issue and have read of subs meeting to hand over spare parts to an outgoing boat who needed this or that. Could be a feature in the sim(?)


Got a question - the trailers for SH4 seem to show underwater views. Is this going to be part of the sim? I could do without those (much like SH3 and SH2) as one never had that option as far as I know on a patrol. Use the space needed for those views to give more external departmental coverage!

Happy Hunting :ping:

Safe-Keeper
08-30-2006, 03:27 PM
Food shortages simply were not an issue on US fleet boats (...)Meh, didn't know that. I knew about the fridges, but still, I thought it'd still be an issue. My bad.

Hmmm... What if Japanese spies sabotage the fishing-pole and Bernard's Silent Service counter-part accidentally eats some vital part of the refridgerator:-??

My point still stands about spare parts, though.

Takeda Shingen
08-30-2006, 04:30 PM
I think that this is a magnificent idea. Certianly, problems with food shortage were not a major issue, but this does not mean that your crew should be able to stay at sea indefinitely. So unless your boat grows it's own wheat and has it's own vegetable garden, there should be a limit on provisions.

Sailor Steve
08-30-2006, 05:37 PM
I voted yes. I was actually thinking of U-boats when I did, but I feel it ought to be at least a consideration.

The Noob
08-30-2006, 06:56 PM
YES!

If Ancient Subsims like Silent Service 1 had it, why shouldn't Modern ones have it?! YES FOR GODS SAKE! I WANT IT!:up:

Zero Niner
08-30-2006, 08:30 PM
Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

bookworm_020
08-31-2006, 02:42 AM
Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?
It sounds like a better idea than the food, after reading "Clear the bridge" (the book on U.S.S Tang) and reading about the Ice cream machine and the deep fryer (that malfunctioned:o) it shows that American ships were well stocked when it came to food.

When it came to booze, see the Australian Navy:rock:

Maybe calling into a friendly port or part exchange from another sub could be possible. It happened a couple of times (the between subs), especally as they were the closest friendly units in enemy waters

Safe-Keeper
08-31-2006, 04:31 AM
So... OK, infinite or nearly infinite food rations, and spare parts as well as a more detailed damage system. You can have gauges that seize working (in the X-Wing series this could be extremely crippling), light bulbs that shatter, making crew efficiency lower, oil/fuel leaks leading to a tell-tale slick on the surface that tells the destroyers where you are, clorine (sp.?) gas leaks that eat up the oxygen and force your crew to put on gas masks, and so on.

More things that can be destroyed, as well as random breakdowns. And spare parts.

Immacolata
08-31-2006, 04:45 AM
Of course, this would have to be optional. But I really just want a more detailed and believeable damage model. If supplies and spare parts are factored in, too, fine. As long as the officers tells me my status and reminds me to turn back before I reach the Point of No Return :)

Capt. D
08-31-2006, 07:34 AM
Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

Exactly!!:yep: One needs to remember that each Captain received orders prior to departing on patrol that indicated a target date for him to enter his patrol zone and to exit his partol zone. Our subs were provisioned in relationship to that. Infinite provisions would not even be a case. Fuel, damage, or broken down equipment needing parts would be the focal point of having to return to base early. Later in the war with advance bases this issue would or could be solved quickly by returning to one of these bases and making repairs etc. Some boats actually left their patrol areas to get a reload of torps and then return to continue their patrol.

As Zero Niner points out so well, you, as the captain, must make the call based on information you receive from your officers, chiefs, and crew concerning the operational condition of your boat!

Happy Hunting :ping:

Takeda Shingen
08-31-2006, 08:18 AM
Was there an officer in charge of supply? Did he consult the captain regarding provisions? I would like one as well. Silent Hunter 3 was landmark as it simulated both submarine operations, much like Sub Command or Dangerous Waters. However, it also introduced a simultaneous command simulation to the genre. If I can promote and rotate my crew; if I can check the status of the batteries and diesel reserves; if I can manage repair status and reload times; then I should be able to check to see how much food is left on the boat, regardless if it is ever an issue or not.

Capt. D
08-31-2006, 11:42 AM
If I can promote and rotate my crew; if I can check the status of the batteries and diesel reserves; if I can manage repair status and reload times; then I should be able to check to see how much food is left on the boat, regardless if it is ever an issue or not.

Agree:yep: - would be neat to see the crew load up all supplies/provisions in port prior to departure also! It just seems that some issues are being left off - more interior views, enemy subs etc.:cry: that provisions may not be the top priority of the sim.

If we are allowed to manage our crew with a greater degree than SH3 - was there not mention of a 3 watch system(?) in the interview with the dev team:hmm: - then yes we should have a supply officer who would review the provisions coming aboard and the status of fuel, supplies, and food. He should then be able to report to the Captain about these issues periodically through the patrol. Only issue I wanted to touch base with was that food was never an issue causing a boat to return to base that I ever read about, and if the dev team was concerned with time and space then food would be low on the priority list of items to include in the sim.

Happy Hunting :ping:

AirborneTD
08-31-2006, 04:55 PM
Currently reading Blair's excellent "Silent Victory". I'm amazed at how many boats had fresh water problems. Some serious enougn to sicken all of the crew to where their combat effectiveness was nil and they had to return to port. Food didn't seem to be much of an issue except where a boat was sent to pick up some refugee/mercenary types and what was supposed to be 10 ended up being 50 or so. They had to cut back on rations until they got back to port.

Funny how often the 'guests' on board got to experience underwater warfare up close because the skippers would continue to hunt ships on the way back. Bet that was scary.

Hylander_1314
08-31-2006, 05:48 PM
The average US patrol was 60 days long, with 2 weeks between patrols. No, patrols should not be allowed to run indefinitely, and there should be some sort of limit to patrol lengths. Yes the sub fleet was the best supplied for provisions, but they weren't, and didn't have room for much more than a couple months provisions supply.

bookworm_020
08-31-2006, 06:00 PM
Currently reading Blair's excellent "Silent Victory". I'm amazed at how many boats had fresh water problems. Some serious enougn to sicken all of the crew to where their combat effectiveness was nil and they had to return to port. Food didn't seem to be much of an issue except where a boat was sent to pick up some refugee/mercenary types and what was supposed to be 10 ended up being 50 or so. They had to cut back on rations until they got back to port.

Funny how often the 'guests' on board got to experience underwater warfare up close because the skippers would continue to hunt ships on the way back. Bet that was scary.

I head of some rangers that were been transported by sub for a suprise attack on a japanese atoll. When the sub was been depthcharged (it had been spoted on it's way there) a salior turned to one of them who was looking a little shaken and asked "Are you scared?", to the which the ranger replied "No, I'm just wondering where I dig my foxhole":rotfl:

DeepSix
08-31-2006, 10:27 PM
Think I have to go with the "no limit" option - as Threadfin said, there were very few cases where boats ran "out" of food. The only ones I can think of were boats running evacuation missions from the Philippines. Even then, those boats ran low, but IIRC none of them actually ran completely out of food.

Steeltrap
08-31-2006, 10:45 PM
Well US subs had the ability to produce water - electrically powered distilleries. The biggest limitations on patrols were:
1. Damage
1. Torps expended
2. fuel
3. orders. Patrol orders typically gave a date to enter the patrol area and, particularly relevant to this topic, a date to leave the area. You could leave earlier if you were out of torps/damaged, but you HAD to leave by the date specified (usually because another sub was likely to 'inherit' the area).
Some subs would request spares etc en route to their bases while returning so that all was ready when they got there.
While a realistic damage model is vital, I can't see this proposal adding anything.

Capt. D
09-01-2006, 08:34 AM
Well US subs had the ability to produce water - electrically powered distilleries. The biggest limitations on patrols were:

3. orders. Patrol orders typically gave a date to enter the patrol area and, particularly relevant to this topic, a date to leave the area. You could leave earlier if you were out of torps/damaged, but you HAD to leave by the date specified (usually because another sub was likely to 'inherit' the area).
Some subs would request spares etc en route to their bases while returning so that all was ready when they got there.
While a realistic damage model is vital, I can't see this proposal adding anything.
:)Exactly - I mentioned that earlier also.

Some have made some interesting comments, though, reagrding provisions based on rescue missions etc. When the Tang rescued 20+ pilots on one patrol I am sure food was rationed until the pilots were transfered off or Tang made it to base. Unless this type of senerio is part of the sim then provisions will still be low on the priority list.

Same for damage. Depending on how much realistic damage/equipment breakdown is included in the sim adding the request to get spare parts may not be of any use. However if it was part of the sim - an interesting twist one would have of ensuring a 'hook up" (setting up a course to meet) with the suppling sub and then another interesting twist - two boats on the surface transfering parts both now in danger of being seen from the air or from an enemy sub (opps that was not going to part of the sim:down:). Need to make sure radar/sonar/and lookouts are on their toes!

Happy Hunting :ping:

Safe-Keeper
09-01-2006, 12:19 PM
Yup, that's another good point. If you're given a squad of Army Rangers to insert or something and have to find room for them in your submarine (I hope I'll be able to control them like I control Officers, Petty-Officers, and Sailors now), then that makes a difference food-wise.

And I got to thinking: In Silent Hunter III, even after over 100 sorties (maybe 200), I've never run out of oxygen. Not once. Oxygen just lasts too long for it to be an issue while hunted. But should the limited-o2-feature still remain in Silent Hunter III? Absolutely, even thought it's not really that much of a restriction.

Provisions would be akin to that. You'd maybe almost never run out of food, but it'd still be in the back of your head.

Capt. D
09-01-2006, 12:40 PM
And I got to thinking: In Silent Hunter III, even after over 100 sorties (maybe 200), I've never run out of oxygen. Not once. Oxygen just lasts too long for it to be an issue while hunted. But should the limited-o2-feature still remain in Silent Hunter III? Absolutely, even thought it's not really that much of a restriction.

Provisions would be akin to that. You'd maybe almost never run out of food, but it'd still be in the back of your head.
:hmm:If I remember, I had a few times a low oxygen level issue during patrols in SH and SH2, when pinned down by destroyers for a long period. Depending on how long you were submerged or if your approach was totaly submerged (an approach to Truk Is. or Scapa Flow) and then had to wait out a depth charging I could see this area becoming critical.

:)Agree here. As I have mentioned before this should not be a normal issue. However if you are running a commando raid or picking up pilots etc., it would play a role if the patrol was extended or not cut short because of the extra passengers. Again all depends on how the sim is set up on those "special missions" that would make provisions even come in to play.

Happy Hunting :ping:

_Seth_
09-03-2006, 05:50 PM
The chef: "Captain, we are running out of food"

Captain: "Danggit, thats bad.....hmmmm.let me think...."

*long break*

The chef: "well, we have to do something..."

Captain: "....hmmmm... HEY! What about that german dude that deserted and joined our submarine??"

The chef: "You are thinking about eating HIM.........?"

Captain: "yes i am!!!!"

The chef: "well, he isnt usable to anything else..."

Over the submarines intercom: "This is the captain speaking! Could seaman Bernard report for "kitchen duty"! Seaman Bernard to "kitchen duty"!"

:D:D

tater
08-15-2007, 08:40 AM
US boats didn't run out because they came home before that was an issue, not because they carried so much it was impossible for it to be an issue.
After maybe 70 days, I'd expect to see crew morale dropping, then efficiency, etc.

Doesn't have to be hit a wall and the crew dies. There should be a penalty for staying out much more than 60 days.

tater

SteamWake
08-15-2007, 09:11 AM
You have got to be kidding....

Will we have to pay renown for the food too ? Next thing you know we will have to make sure the bathroom is available or the sailors will pee on the floor and get in a bad mood ala "The Sims'.

You already have people pissing and moaning when they run out of fuel and cant get home. What happens when you run out of food ? Starve to death ?

Sorry Id like to concentrate on hunting, killing, hiding, not nutrition.

Rockin Robbins
08-15-2007, 09:27 AM
I think not only should we have to manage food supplies, perhaps we could be responsible for setting the daily menu. That could encourage women to play the game. Management of tableware could be instituted as well, with crockery broken in depth charge attacks affecting the morale of a coffee-deprived crew. The horror!

We should model the oven. Burn the food and torpedoes start missing the target. Dive times suffer.:shifty:

Another unmodeled aspect is that submarines have no heads. These heads, in addition to being few for a crew of 60+ were notoriously difficult to operate with messy, smelly and sometimes dangerous consequences for ineptitude. If the head malfunctioned crew morale would suffer and perhaps we could reduce the dive times of submarines to simulate having to come to the surface to deficate.:smug:

We could also be required to restuff the stuffing box once in awhile or burn up the prop shaft, or perhaps spring an unacceptable leak. Actually turning the cranks to open and close the several dozen air and water valves on the ship (an add-on product available at your local Wal-Mart, only $150.00) is essential to proper immersion. They could be rigged up to your house plumbing so they spray water all over you and your computer if operated in the wrong sequence.:doh: edit: And it would give immersion a really cool double meaning.

Naw! Let's leave it alone.:rotfl:

tater
08-15-2007, 10:06 AM
I don't want to have to "buy" food, I just want patrols limited to a realistic time. Doesn't matter to me, I just go home in the right amount of time.

Easier might be to simply require that when you are sent out on patrol that you RTB in X days to get some level of success.

SteamWake
08-15-2007, 11:07 AM
Did tenders carry foodstuffs as well as fuel and munitions ?

Hell did they even really carry munitions ?

tater
08-15-2007, 11:42 AM
Yeah, they did. Storeships would be nearby as well, I imagine.

Double barreled patrols are a different issue.

tater

orangenee
08-15-2007, 12:13 PM
No, it wouldn't work properly and would be buggy as all hell. So the crew would end up starving despite having a veritable banquet prepared in the galley, plus it would distract from the business at hand, which involves floating around trying to find something to torpedo. I really don't want to have to go back to a port everytime I'm a tin of baked beans short.

Snowman999
08-15-2007, 12:19 PM
Did tenders carry foodstuffs as well as fuel and munitions ?

Hell did they even really carry munitions ?


Yes to all.

AVGWarhawk
08-15-2007, 12:23 PM
I really don't want to have to go back to a port everytime I'm a tin of baked beans short. :rotfl:

Or if someone had more than one scoop of strawberry ice cream and a duplicate key to the freezers so they could get that additional scoop of strawberry ice cream.

Snowman999
08-15-2007, 12:39 PM
[quote=Takeda Shingen]Was there an officer in charge of supply? Did he consult the captain regarding provisions? I would like one as well.

There was no Supply Corps officer, but a junior officer was designated Commissary Officer as a collateral duty. He was really a proto-division officer of the cooks and stewards but it wasn't a "real" division under an operational department. AFAIK this collateral duty reported to the XO, just as the COB and the yeomen did.

Shipboard duty runs in several paths, then and now. Officers report up to the XO via department heads and division officer billets for administrative, training, evaluation, pay, orders, etc. The XO, with the COB, makes up the Watch Quarter and Station Bill. The CO is, for the most part, a distant figure who is everywhere at all times, but doesn't meddle in the nits of running the store. He's already been an XO so he observes, but doesn't usurp.

But when it comes to combat readiness the chain flows directly to the CO from the department heads, semi-bypassing the XO. My boat had a formal ceremony before each patrol. The department heads stood in the P-way outside the CO's stateroom and we marched in by order of seniority and reported to the skipper than our departments were ready for sea in all respects, or if we weren't what was not. It was a little corny, but "signing up" did serve to focus the attention and cause one to pucker up just a bit. Three months is a long time to rue an oversight.

Perhaps if my Supply School instructor, off a PacFlt boomer, had undergone this exercise he would have personally checked the coffee supply and not taken the chief's word for it. He barely survived. Picture being in a cage for three months with 150 angry rats . . .

On the idea of rating food as a consumable in SH4--put me down for a yes, but only if it can be tied to crew fatigue and efficiency. While it's true that boats were well-provisioned, food was and is a KEY morale and efficiency item. Just because a boat has "food" doesn't mean it's balanced-diet-time late in the patrol. Food can spoil at a rate not forecast. Reefers break down and lose the whole load. Equipment casualties can make good menus impossible to prepare. And even though orders demand a departure date losing two engines might make the trip home take a longer time than envisioned.

We never ran out of food; I had a good chief and I crawled my storage spaces every three days. I did report to the CO on the status about weekly, in an informal manner, usually at meals. (Contrast this to daily, formal, Fuel, Oil, and Water Reports required of the Engineer to the CO at noon every day.) But there were patrols where we were eating soda crackers the last week because the flour was green, others where we had cheese but no ham, etc. It's not fatal, but it makes for a grumpy crew.

As for coffee, that should be its own variable. The Navy doesn't work without coffee.

Bear
08-15-2007, 02:48 PM
The key word appears to be "option". I like options. I have felt there should have been more of those little boxes to check when you were setting up your game. :yep:

I can see why the purist would want that, so if it could be done, maybe TM v1.15 or RB v1.15 could have that as an option in their supermods. :up:

I checked no opinion, because I usually get my crew killed before lunch. I never get them killed before breakfast, it's the most important meal of the day. :lol:


Posted by Snowman999
As for coffee, that should be its own variable. The Navy doesn't work without coffee.


Nothing Works Without Coffee!!!

Wim Libaers
08-15-2007, 04:08 PM
You have got to be kidding....

Will we have to pay renown for the food too ? Next thing you know we will have to make sure the bathroom is available or the sailors will pee on the floor and get in a bad mood ala "The Sims'.

You already have people pissing and moaning when they run out of fuel and cant get home. What happens when you run out of food ? Starve to death ?

Sorry Id like to concentrate on hunting, killing, hiding, not nutrition.


Thanks. I never played The Sims. Never knew what I was missing :rotfl:

I wouldn't worry too much about the food, though, the crew is "special", they don't consume normal food.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=120336
Worry about disappearing crewmembers instead... :lol:

LukeFF
08-15-2007, 05:32 PM
You have got to be kidding....

Will we have to pay renown for the food too ? Next thing you know we will have to make sure the bathroom is available or the sailors will pee on the floor and get in a bad mood ala "The Sims'.

You already have people pissing and moaning when they run out of fuel and cant get home. What happens when you run out of food ? Starve to death ?

Sorry Id like to concentrate on hunting, killing, hiding, not nutrition.

Key words: Slippery, slope, and argument


:roll:

Rockin Robbins
08-15-2007, 09:02 PM
I don't want to have to "buy" food, I just want patrols limited to a realistic time. Doesn't matter to me, I just go home in the right amount of time.

Easier might be to simply require that when you are sent out on patrol that you RTB in X days to get some level of success.

I agree. These 100,000 ton cruises thanks to 5 resupply trips to Midway would get the skipper canned for sure in the real war.

Linavitch
08-16-2007, 04:47 PM
Surely subs set off with a food store level that was comparible to the fuel/range level of the boat.

Ergo, the food guage would deplete at the same rate as the fuel rate and then becme redundant.

I know this is a slightly simplistic view but explains why I voted against the idea.

Snowman999
08-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Surely subs set off with a food store level that was comparible to the fuel/range level of the boat.

Ergo, the food guage would deplete at the same rate as the fuel rate and then becme redundant.

I know this is a slightly simplistic view but explains why I voted against the idea.


The two aren't related very much at all. Food is (relatively) linear. Barring spoilage, passengers, or defective stores (rotted at load; it happens) food consumption is fixed per man per day. Rationing can be done, but it's not worth worrying.

Fuel OTOH is not linear. Once in the patrol area consumption could be wildly variant depending on number of end-arounds or simple patrolling. Theoretically the boat could go to All Stop and just consume oil to make water and to charge batteries used only for hotel services, while waiting for targets to lumber by. The food would be gone before the fuel. And, probably, the crew's physical endurance would be gone too. That is a factor that has bones in SH4, even though the crew management functions are not fully realized and horribly documented.

Fearless
08-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Most definitely a goer for me :cool:

Seadogs
08-17-2007, 06:05 PM
I think that fuel is the limiting factor. Unless your just getting to the patroll area and going all stop for three months, but thats not very realistic in itself.

But hey, skies the limit. More options and more features the better as long as it's implemented well.

PS: Way to have a biased poll. Yes, I Suck or I'm a nub :rotfl: J/k

Hybris
08-18-2007, 07:15 AM
[quote=Takeda Shingen]If I can promote and rotate my crew; if I can check the status of the batteries and diesel reserves; if I can manage repair status and reload times; then I should be able to check to see how much food is left on the boat, regardless if it is ever an issue or not.

XO: Captain I have the food report you asked for. I suggest we talk in private sir.

CO:Ok

(Minute later)

XO: Sir we have a bad situation... we're out of coffee sir.

CO: Very well then. *Thinks and heads out to Navgator*

CO: Come right to 090 increase to flank...surface the boat and run on diesels.

Navgator: Where are we going sir?

CO: To the nearest friendly port to reload on critcal supplies.

AkbarGulag
08-20-2007, 08:46 AM
It took me a while to come up with an opinion on this, so I only just voted ^^

If this option was a selectable option, just like fuel, batteries etc... Then one would be crazy not to want this extra goodie. For those who play 100% then this is one of the few things actually missing. So my vote was yes, hell, why not.

GT182
08-23-2007, 12:45 PM
The chef: "Captain, we are running out of food"

Captain: "Danggit, thats bad.....hmmmm.let me think...."

*long break*

The chef: "well, we have to do something..."

Captain: "....hmmmm... HEY! What about that german dude that deserted and joined our submarine??"

The chef: "You are thinking about eating HIM.........?"

Captain: "yes i am!!!!"

The chef: "well, he isnt usable to anything else..."

Over the submarines intercom: "This is the captain speaking! Could seaman Bernard report for "kitchen duty"! Seaman Bernard to "kitchen duty"!"

:D:D

Finally .... a way to get rid of Bernard. Feed him to the Yanks. :rotfl:

Yer one sick puppy Seth... but that was funny. I don't care what they say.

As for provisions... I'd love to see a Virginia ham or 2 hanging from the pipes in the control room. Aa in SHIII. ;)

sober
08-23-2007, 09:03 PM
ALARM..........We are out of toilet paper sir!!!!!

Lafferty
08-31-2007, 04:18 PM
lol that is really funny.

Raptor22ADF
09-01-2007, 12:44 AM
Extra strap-on provision lockers, elsewise yes! Another thing to enhance realism.

Lafferty
09-03-2007, 11:30 AM
Yeah we need some extra lockers for food.

sqk7744
09-03-2007, 01:30 PM
That would be great, IMO.

I always felt that things such as that could only add to the immersion factor.

Agreed, the Mayflower stopped in Plymouth for this very reason ;)

Lafferty
09-03-2007, 09:29 PM
lol i thought i sunk the Mayflower in SH3 or maybe it was something else i don't know.

SteamWake
09-04-2007, 12:48 PM
That would be great, IMO.

I always felt that things such as that could only add to the immersion factor.

Agreed, the Mayflower stopped in Plymouth for this very reason ;)

Heh... they stopped to make beer, they had run out.

Here is a link to the story http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051125.html

FIREWALL
09-25-2007, 09:30 AM
lol i thought i sunk the Mayflower in SH3 or maybe it was something else i don't know.


Lafferty you bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

FIREWALL
09-25-2007, 09:34 AM
Safe-Keeper I think it's a great idea and will keep us on our toes like watching fuel. :up:

Maybe some kinda bar gauge like fuel ?

SteamWake
09-25-2007, 09:55 AM
Holy necro post batman ! :o

Hawk_345
09-25-2007, 04:52 PM
i think this would be a great feature, if you could select it on/off, or if it was a mod you could activate or deactivate with jsgme.

U49
09-25-2007, 06:16 PM
Especially food would be very exciting, since it would lea to the question if we should think about the amount of daily food rations (higher vs lower performance of the crew)

Hawk_345
09-25-2007, 06:35 PM
but getting into detail like that, we are getting a little bit eager with the engine, it might not be posible. still would be great if posible and choosing how much rations to give would be a great benefit if the original idea is possible.

FIREWALL
10-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Well Safe-Keeper so far on your poll only 42 with no imagination :rotfl:

Rockin Robbins
12-13-2007, 12:20 PM
You know a sub could only go so long without toilet paper. Let's put a toilet paper gauge next to that food gauge, and we could introduce crew's laundry. When underwear supplies get low morale suffers. I think we could also scrape rust off the conning tower, repack the stuffing boxes and sweep and dust the radar cabinets. It would be really exciting to take the specific gravity of each cell in the battery array three times a day. It's been brought to my attention that the hydrogen gas sensors aren't working correctly. Above 5% is explosive and it would be really cool to have a gauge next to the food gauge, toilet paper gauge, rust gauge and underwear gauge to show hydrogen concentration.

All these suggestions are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY if SH4 is going to be an exciting game. I'll be in touch with Kentucky Fried Mole to organize pointless protests to bring Ubi to their knees until we get these essential improvements.:up:

tomoose
12-13-2007, 03:05 PM
RR;
LOL, nicely put. I accidentally clicked on the wrong poll button, d'oh, but couldn't retract it. I read Beach's "Submarine" which has a variety tales from Wahoo, Trigger etc. None of them mention food being an issue on patrol, in fact one of the subs had it's own "custom" made ice-cream maker!!;)

rrmelend
12-13-2007, 04:02 PM
I voted "no" for the same reasons most people have already mentioned. I believe that most boats were never on patrol long enough for this to become an issue.

Front Runner
12-14-2007, 05:01 AM
I'm sure that a sub crew knows how to fish and forage if things ever get that bad. I've heard rumors that there is lots of spare SPAM stashed away in every nook and cranny.

Capt Jack Russell
12-14-2007, 08:52 PM
I voted yes! It's another actual detail of overall boat management. The more the better. By the way, shouldn't we have a Pharmacist Mate on board?

Digital_Trucker
12-15-2007, 05:04 PM
I've heard rumors that there is lots of spare SPAM stashed away in every nook and cranny.

By some folks accounts, ALL SPAM is considered spare:D

Rockin Robbins
12-16-2007, 07:32 AM
I've heard rumors that there is lots of spare SPAM stashed away in every nook and cranny.
By some folks accounts, ALL SPAM is considered spare:D
Wearing appropriate protective respirators, crewmembers open cans of Spam, filling a torpedo tube of a desparate, pinned-down submarine. Ejecting the Spam, it floats due to its putrid fat content. When the stuff surfaces, the stench convinces the Japanese that the crew of the submarine is certainly dead. They chock up another sunk sub and leave.:smug:

JALU3
12-16-2007, 08:47 AM
Oh come now . . . Spam isn't that bad. Especially if you know how to make REALLY good SPAM Musubi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_musubi).

That reminds me . . . how often would the cook go fishing? And how often were they successful? Imagine Fresh Tuna . . . mmmm.

mcf1
12-25-2007, 10:46 AM
Use your imagination to make thing more realistic and put bernard on that AA
to do some fishing. He is a good fisherman i hear :rotfl:

Rockin Robbins
01-11-2008, 10:56 AM
Will this thread ever die? I hate to think that any devs might actually put this into action.

Devs: Please do not read this thread. It is a figment of your imagination.

Donner
01-22-2008, 12:40 PM
I researched this subject this weekend.

From my preliminary findings, the problem of provisioning, or lack thereof, was known and corrected on the eve of war. I have read through many of the first war patrol reports of the Pearl Harbor based boats and none speak of 'lack of food' as the cause of return. A high percentage do speak of the lack of fresh water and the subsequent rationing that took place.

In Clay Blair's Silent Victory, p.84, he writes:

Beginning in October, [Admiral Thomas] Withers began limited rehearsals of a portion of Rainbow Five. He sent two submarines, Dolphin and Narwhal, on a forty-five day simulated patrol off Wake Island. These patrols provided useful information and experience on food and fresh-water consumption, the psychological effects of prolonged confinement, and some indication of how the machinery would hold up. After their return, Withers was convinced that submarine crews-provided sufficient water and food-could patrol for sixty days without cracking up and that after a three-week machinery refit the submarine would be ready for another patrol.

While researching the boats that participated in this dress rehearsal, another statement jumped out from the official record from Tautog's history in the National Archives:

On 21 October [1941] TAUTOG received sealed orders to patrol off Midway for 45 days with THRESHER. The sub was submerged for 15 to 16 hours per day for thirty-eight consecutive days. Most provisions ran out and the patrol was one of the hardest on personnel that TAUTOG ever made. She returned to Pearl Harbor on 5 December 1941 just in time for the fireworks of 7 December. As a result of her last pre-war activities, TAUTOG was in need of a refit period. It was three weeks before she was ready to go out on her first war patrol.

Tautog's prewar patrol lasted 45 days and the crew suffered from lack of fresh water as well as the implementation of food rationing (two meals a day.) Fortunately, I have Tautog's pre-war patrol report dated 5 Dec 1941. For those interested, I have uploaded the relevant portions of that report (pdf format) regarding fresh water, commissary, morale, and health here (http://files.filefront.com/ExcerptsTautog5Dec1941PDF/;9475010;/fileinfo.html).

Argonaut was on pre-war patrol beginning 28 November 1941 and remained on station around Midway until ordered to return to Pearl on 16 January 1942. She docked on 22 January 1942. Her patrol report does not mention food shortages.

I have also done a small sampling of patrols that lasted 60 days or more and cannot find any mention of food causing the end of a patrol. Most, if not all, report that menus were diverse and nourishing.

In most cases, the hunger of the diesels, not the crew, was the predominant reason for returns.

I am with RR in the hope that this thread will die as there is *slim* historical data to support this "feature." :roll:

NealT
02-01-2008, 10:00 AM
Interesting...

All the 'nucs' I have ever talked with say there is food stuffed everywhere...

Can't get enough fresh eggs and veggies...

Guess there just aren't enough 'oilers' left...