Abandoning ship

[Safe-Keeper]

This is such a complicated issue that I felt it warranted its very own thread. Now to move its furniture in here and it'll be all set:up:!

Abandoning ship. Hopefully, we'll have the option of doing so when your boat is doomed. An "abandon ship" sound file in Silent Hunter III indicates Ubisoft at some point planned to implement it in that game, although they for whatever reason (most likely time pressure) did not do so.

So, when you abandon ship, what happens? I imagine it'd be a hot-key with an associated "Are you sure"-box. Something like this:

ABANDON SHIP?

Abandon ship and await rescue?

[Send S.O.S., then abandon ship.]
[Abandon ship.]
[Belay order.]


But after that?

I propose that you're stuck with the navigation map, or possibly also the "F2" screen which'd allow you to see the crewmates swimming around, or sitting around in life-boats -or both.

Not much to do but wait at a time compression of 1024. If you sent an S.O.S., a friendly ship or plane might find and recover you, or an enemy ship or plane might. Otherwise, you're left to hope some random vessel comes by, as was the case with the USS Indianapolis survivors. The outcome of the waiting (influenced by things like how many are wounded, whether or not you got eventual life-boats in the water, how many people wear life-vests, the weather conditions, sharks in the vincinity -not a joke-, etc.):
Death: Your entire crew dies from starvation, drowning, shark attack, or other causes.
Capture: An enemy unit reaches you, or you're near a friendly city.
Rescue: A friendly or neutral unit reaches you, or you're near an enemy city.If you're within sight of land, your crew will move to it and get ashore, increasing survival and rescue chances and decreasing capture chances.

Then you're treated with a message such as this one:

CREW RESCUED

Survivors: 29.
Dead: 25.
Wounded: 3.

I'd actually like a hearing/court martial system after that. Nothing interactive, just a generated outcome like Dishonorable Discharge, Demotion, or Not Guilty, for example. If you put your boat at unneccessary risk (not diving from attacking Japanese bomber, for example), your odds would decrease. If you handled the situation as well as you could, your odds are better. If you have a good record later on, even better.

And so on.

As a side note, you should risk court-martials when breaking laws or firing at neutral or allied vessels. Torpedo a neutral ship in a Japanese convoy in the dead of night and you're probably excused. Hit her from a distance of 600 metres in broad daylight and excellent weather condition, and it's impossible to "mis-identify" or "not being able to make out" the flag.

I don't know enough about how this was handled, so meh. Let's focus on the scuttling, we're in his apartment.

[Sailor Steve]

SHI let you abandon ship, but there was no waiting; you just got told whether you were captured, rescued or died of exposure.

Still, I'm all for this one as well. I like your proposals about getting ashore too.

[Safe-Keeper]

X-Wing and TIE Fighter were like that. If you bailed too close to an enemy vessel or in enemy territory, you were captured (you were shown a cutscene in which you were taken prisoner). If you were stuck in your fighter (if your ejection system was busted and the fighter was destroyed), there was a cutscene of you being buried. If you bailed near a friendly ship, or in "friendly waters", there was a cutscene of you being recovered by a medical shuttle, for then to receive medical treatment.

I still think it'd be better to have it take time, though. Longest it'd take would be something like 5-6 days, then you'd be dead if no one'd found you.

Maybe if you were near shore you could just be recovered automatically if it was friendly, neutral, or occupied by hostiles but with a partisan population friendly to the US (random chance then, I guess), and captured if it was hostile?

[Grey Legion]

Oh man !!

Genius idea !!

I have had a fwe times where I could have used that, also if you are captured there has to be a way for you to get back home to continue the fight !!

dunno what it could be, but some how in the early years the Canadian POW camps where easy to get out of, this was before the USA joining the war.

[Safe-Keeper]

I have had a fwe times where I could have used that, also if you are captured there has to be a way for you to get back home to continue the fight !!Have it be random, then zoom onwards to the time you escape or are set free and sent home and put back into circulation. Plain and simple.

[Grey Legion]

I have had a fwe times where I could have used that, also if you are captured there has to be a way for you to get back home to continue the fight !!Have it be random, then zoom onwards to the time you escape or are set free and sent home and put back into circulation. Plain and simple.

My thoughts 100%

I think the chance to play a mission 100% through would be great no matter what the outcome..

:up:

[STEED]

I would like to see the concept of being allowed to abandon ship or should I say boat. And of course seeing the results of your decision are you captured, rescued or as Sailor Steve said you died of exposure.

[Grey Legion]

As I see this game is a simulation, not a U-boat simulation but a U-boat captain simulation, so with that all those tough life and death decisions should be included.

Of course with any game the more option that are made the more varied the gamer that will play so it would be wise to allow for total or little control..

[Wilko]

I like that idea of depending where you are as to the outcome of abandoning ship, rescue, capture or just plain out death... realy good idea there :up:

[Sailor Steve]

I have had a fwe times where I could have used that, also if you are captured there has to be a way for you to get back home to continue the fight !!Have it be random, then zoom onwards to the time you escape or are set free and sent home and put back into circulation. Plain and simple.
But if you have an option that lets you escape and return from the war, it's only fair to also get a screen that says "Shot while trying to escape!".

[NightCrawler]

I remember a game, that have the same thing but cant remember the name of the game(around 1980)..

that abandon ship, and hopefully you will be rescued, and go back to the base, if you're captured, you will be placed in prisoners camp, and stay there for 6 montch, but you will escape there after and heading back to base, to continue the carreer, but you will be reported on carreer mode...

[stabiz]

Nah, whats the point? SH IV is not a roleplaying game. Next you want it to turn FPS when you reach shore.

[Grey Legion]

Nah, whats the point? SH IV is not a roleplaying game. Next you want it to turn FPS when you reach shore.

It is roleplaying..your the captain of a u-boat...are you not?, and by that you take on his/her role ??

I would not want to see FPS aspects and to that I agree but a little story would not hurt and heck they can always put a option screen ??


Just a thought

[The Noob]

I remember a game, that have the same thing but cant remember the name of the game(around 1980)..

that abandon ship, and hopefully you will be rescued, and go back to the base, if you're captured, you will be placed in prisoners camp, and stay there for 6 montch, but you will escape there after and heading back to base, to continue the carreer, but you will be reported on carreer mode...


Maybe This One?

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/sub-battle-simulator

It could be the one...:hmm:

I still have it someware, but i never understood the controles...:-?
Some help here would be Good!:up:

[NightCrawler]

The Noob, it could be Aces Of The Deep under DOS mode :D

[Safe-Keeper]

I would not want to see FPS aspects and to that I agreeMe, too. Except from the already-existing FPS aspects (Flak and Deck Gun-manning);).

but a little story would not hurtNot even a little story, just a message going "aided back to the US by Chinese partisans" or "captured by Japanese patrols" or something.

they can always put a option screen ??I don't see why it should be in the options screen, to be honest. I don't think there are any good arguments against being able to abandon ship (and no, I don't agree it's RPG-ish).

[Drebbel]

Maybe This One?

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/sub-battle-simulator

It could be the one...:hmm:

I still have it someware, but i never understood the controles...:-?
Some help here would be Good!:up:

I have the manual. Just let me know if you need a scan ?

just a message going "aided back to the US by Chinese partisans" or "captured by Japanese patrols" or something.

Good idea. I like it. Abandon ship is a elementery option when you have sustained heavy damage, so it should be in the sim imho.


Drebbel

[enaceo]

I'd love to see this option.I also remember a really old game...probably the one you people have mentioned there where you had the option to abandon ship and a lot of things could have happened.When your u-boat got destroyed,you wouldn't always be killed.You had a chance of being rescued/captured.
Also,in another Ubi-Soft game ,IL2:Sturmovik ,you have a very simple "abandon plane" system.You can eject if your plane is damaged,and if you manage to fall and survive,you get either captured or rescued ,depending on which territory you are on.if your plane is damaged and you manage to land it without blowing up,you can also "end the mission" in hope of being rescued.

[Harry Buttle]

As a side note, you should risk court-martials when breaking laws or firing at neutral or allied vessels. Torpedo a neutral ship in a Japanese convoy in the dead of night and you're probably excused. Hit her from a distance of 600 metres in broad daylight and excellent weather condition, and it's impossible to "mis-identify" or "not being able to make out" the flag.



I don't know enough about how this was handled, so meh. Let's focus on the scuttling, we're in his apartment.




According to international law (and naval practice) if you sail with a convoy you are liable to be sunk even if you are a neutral.

[Drebbel]

According to international law (and naval practice) if you sail with a convoy you are liable to be sunk even if you are a neutral.

The rules are prbably not at all strict like that. I think there must be many exceptions

- You have to be in a declared war zone ?
- All ships are neutral, what then ?
- And what about hospital ships ?

Would be nice if someone could dig up the actual text of this international law.

[Harry Buttle]

According to international law (and naval practice) if you sail with a convoy you are liable to be sunk even if you are a neutral.



The rules are prbably not at all strict like that. I think there must be many exceptions

- You have to be in a declared war zone ?
- All ships are neutral, what then ?
- And what about hospital ships ?


Would be nice if someone could dig up the actual text of this international law.


You don't have to be 'in a declared war zone' - usually there is a declaration of war and that covers everywhere.

If the convoy is sailing to one of the warring nations ports, the ships may be owned by a neutral party, but they are not neutral.

re hospital ships (this is the current ruling)-

Classes of vessels exempt from attack
47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:
(a) hospital ships, etc etc

Conditions of exemption
48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:
(a) are innocently employed in their normal role; (b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and (c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.
Loss of exemption
Hospital ships 49. The exemption from attack of a hospital ship may cease only by reason of a breach of a condition of exemption in paragraph 48 and, in such a case, only after due warning has been given naming in all appropriate cases a reasonable time limit to discharge itself of the cause endangering its exemption, and after such warning has remained unheeded.
50. If after due warning a hospital ship persists in breaking a condition of its exemption, it renders itself liable to capture or other necessary measures to enforce compliance.
51. A hospital ship may only be attacked as a last resort if:
(a) diversion or capture is not feasible; (b) no other method is available for exercising military control; (c) the circumstances of non-compliance are sufficiently grave that the hospital ship has become, or may be reasonably assumed to be, a military objective; and (d) the collateral casualties or damage will not be disproportionate to the military advantage gained or expected.

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Given that, in convoy, they could not stop for inspection it could be argued even under current rules that they are potentially liable to attack (though with guided weapons, you would be unlikely to waste the shot).

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Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture; (b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy; (c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces; (d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system; (e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or (f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

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(e) covers it for merchant ships to this day.