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View Full Version : Please better warp or TC!!!


joea
05-22-2006, 04:18 PM
The real reason I play SHIII less often than when I got it last year...even with TC and save games it is just so slooooooow crossing the Atlantic. I know subs were slow in WWII and all that, but I can't imagine what will happen in the Pacific? Furthermore, while I understand the importance of computer power it surely is not the case that 1024X is really 1024X on every computer...could not a better system that doesn't sacrifice realism be devised? Is it because the graphic engine in SH3 is still active somehow? What are your ideas?

squigian
05-22-2006, 05:02 PM
I remember that European Air War had a function to 'skip' journies. There was a chance that the enemy could waylay you, however. In such a case, you would go to 1x TC about 10km from the enemy fighters or mission objective. A similar setting could be devised here, and realism lovers could simply avoid using it.

GreyOctober
05-22-2006, 06:03 PM
Well i just dont think warp is possible simply because the game needs to gradually and in realtime compute the possitions and events of all the objcts in game because of the dynamic campaign. So warping would force the computer do in one second what it allready struggles to do at 1024X TC...which is a nono.

DeepSix
05-22-2006, 06:59 PM
Agree with GreyOctober - it would be nice to have a "skip to next waypoint" feature but at the same time it would be difficult to incorporate simply because the game has to track multiple targets - unlike something like B-17 where you have one target and you lay out and lock yourself into a route beforehand.

Not impossible, though - and a good idea. If it could be done I think it would be great; I just doubt if it can be done (well).

Torplexed
05-22-2006, 07:48 PM
I think the original SH did it best. You were just put into your general geographical patrol area like the South China Sea, Caroline Islands or Empire Waters with so much fuel subtracted. It's not like American subs had to run a gauntlet of land-based air and roving Hunter-Killer groups like the Germans did in the Atlantic to get to and from port. The journey to the patrol areas from Pearl or Brisbane was usually rather uneventful.

GreyOctober
05-22-2006, 08:02 PM
Torp, that would mean removing some of the freedom were enjoying at the moment. And this freedom is correlated with the dynamic campaign which adds a feeling of uncertainty. You never know what can happen in an-what you may consider-uneventful trip

DeepSix
05-22-2006, 08:35 PM
Those are both really good points.... I agree that some of the long journey is going to be uneventful *most* of the time. But if the devs were to try to include things like random equipment failures it would be difficult to mix that with a "skip to."

Moreover, it might make it difficult to realistically include radio traffic from base. And I confess this is one of my "pet" wishes. U.S. subs were frequently shifted about, either while on station or while enroute to/from, to chase down Ultras. I think my personal preference would be to have realistic demands of Ultra rather than a faster TC. But the idea is intriguing.

squigian
05-23-2006, 02:45 AM
How about if you could sleep?

I mean, click on a bunk and it would ask you how long, say 8 hours. Then, if anything happened, your crew would wake you up. To allow this, sleeping would be treated as a load time rather than real-time. All positions would have updated, but it would only have to update once as you skipped ahead through sleeping. Keeps it a bit more realistic, too.

joea
05-23-2006, 04:14 AM
Well how about optimising the game engine or something? Look at this site:
http://www.navalwarfare.org/

And this game:

http://forums.navalwarfare.org/forumdisplay.php?f=9

It's a campaign simulator for the old game Fighting Steel called Thunder at Sea...and simulates fleet movements with a fair amount (but simple 2-d map graphic) of factors added in, weather, air or sub attacks, ... and it calls up the game when ships sight each other for surface combat. It also has very high compression...don't know if it would help.

Sailor Steve
05-23-2006, 12:52 PM
SHI's 'warp' worked perfectly, but I would rather sail all that way myself.

It would be a nice option, but I don't want to see it be automatic.

Rosencrantz
05-23-2006, 01:55 PM
Yep, like Steve I found SHI warp working perfectly, but anyway I would like to sail all the way from the base to opare and back.

I also understand joeas thoughts. I myself use to play quite long campaigns playing just maybe two or three gamedays in the evening. I use to do trimm dives and so, even if that's quite boring if nothing has happend for a several days.

Some time ago there was a discussion about minigames like chess included into the game for a times nothing is happening. I was thinking also original docs like "Submarine torpedo fire control manual" included (you could read them in the captains quarter). But I don't know if that's possible. (Should be, can't ask that much "space" or prosessing capabilitys) How about these + off course more radio traffic and so on?

-RC-

badhat17
05-23-2006, 08:56 PM
Cast your minds back to the SH3 devs original campaign idea, instant map travel to the action area. Sounded great to me but the dynamic campaign whiners put an end to that one.

DeepSix
05-23-2006, 09:06 PM
...Some time ago there was a discussion about minigames like chess included into the game for a times nothing is happening...

Genius! Never thought of that, but I could happily while away the slower times by playing chess or poker or bridge, etc. Be nice if there could be a save feature built into that, too.

Of course, the obvious (and very legitimate) criticism of this is that it's a subgame not Hoyle Casino. :lol: But still - I like the idea! :up:

Subnuts
05-23-2006, 09:54 PM
Cast your minds back to the SH3 devs original campaign idea, instant map travel to the action area. Sounded great to me but the dynamic campaign whiners put an end to that one.

Play the same mission 20 times in a row and you'll hear some real whining. :roll:

badhat17
05-23-2006, 11:58 PM
:lol:

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 04:40 AM
Yep Deep. The idea is great but it's not mine - so I'm not the genius one. (Don't remember who came first with that idea) I think few minigames in the sim might be even better than limited interaction with your crew. I rather play chess than watch my IWO finishing his meal or changing clothes. I'm not that keen to crawl to the forward compartment to see tubes being under loading and to hear zilions time those same two frases from my AI crew.

-RC-

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 04:51 AM
BTW, why not to build these minigames so that you can "ask" your AI crew member to play with you. You know... Different levels in AI, and the question is "who is the chess master of the boat"?

Sorry I took the discussion to off road.

-RC-

Donner
05-24-2006, 11:16 AM
Still staying off topic...I seem to remember reading in several different books that cribbage was the most common game played in the sub's wardroom. If a minigame is included, then IMO that should be the choice.

FAdmiral
05-24-2006, 11:51 AM
How about the most realistic choice of all...
Give the crew training in handling of the boat
and let them accrue experience so they can
be better at doing their jobs. When in doubt,
check history and see what they did !!


JIM

squigian
05-24-2006, 12:02 PM
Minigames should be:

Cribbage
Chess
Poker

And of course:

Battleship!

Books should include:

20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
War and Peace (that should make the voyage times fly by(!))
The Bible (it is an American sub, after all)
Some naval memoirs
Training manuals

:ping:

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 12:21 PM
squigian wrote:

Books should include:

20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
War and Peace (that should make the voyage times fly by(!))
The Bible (it is an American sub, after all)
Some naval memoirs
Training manuals





:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 12:37 PM
FAdmiral wrote:

How about the most realistic choice of all...
Give the crew training in handling of the boat
and let them accrue experience so they can
be better at doing their jobs. When in doubt,
check history and see what they did !!





Well, Sir, I see two problems in your suggestion:
a) How to make this to be interesting
b) How to make this deal with TC

Basicly I'm more interested in playing chess than teach my crew how to steer the boat. Training requiers you come down to 1x too, so... That can't solve the original problem, I think.

Greetings,

-RC-

don1reed
05-24-2006, 12:41 PM
Howdy all,

the mini-game concept got my attention...again...

speaking with Rosencrantz earlier about SH3 in windows mode...made me remember (I'm old and senile) that I presently play chess; solitare; cribbage etc., while running SH3 in windows mode....and I can also, go online, look at DL TM's & FM's...the whole 9yds.

I don't see why we couldn't do it with SH4 also.

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 12:53 PM
Hello Don! You said it. Maybe we could play with IV the same way. I haven't tried windows mode yet but I think maybe some of us just don't wan't to play the sim in the windows mode, but would like to go to captains quarter, "take" the chess board and so on... I don't know...

Well, before soon I'll give a try to windows, so at least I'll know what I think about it.

Greetings,

-RC-

FAdmiral
05-24-2006, 12:54 PM
FAdmiral wrote:

How about the most realistic choice of all...
Give the crew training in handling of the boat
and let them accrue experience so they can
be better at doing their jobs. When in doubt,
check history and see what they did !!





Well, Sir, I see two problems in your suggestion:
a) How to make this to be interesting
b) How to make this deal with TC

Basicly I'm more interested in playing chess than teach my crew how to steer the boat. Training requiers you come down to 1x too, so... That can't solve the original problem, I think.

Greetings,

-RC-


YES, unfortunately learning these tactics in history meant
the difference between life and death. The majority of us
, as gamers, will NEVER experience the horror of real combat.
So all we want to experience is the FUN of combat...SAD !!


JIM

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 01:05 PM
FAdmiral wrote:

YES, unfortunately learning these tactics in history meant
the difference between life and death. The majority of us
, as gamers, will NEVER experience the horror of real combat.
So all we want to experience is the FUN of combat...SAD !!




Well, yes. I think, we really want it to be fun. There is certain limitations in realism we want. Are you sure you would like to use couple weeks in real time just to get your self to the oparea because you need to give some training to your crew? To give an hounour to our ancestors is one thing and playing the game is another. These things can be merged without need to make the gaming experience to be just pain in our bottom.

BTW, I served in LRRP in peace time and didn't see any really hot situation. But I also know that if man really wants to find out how he feels in the field... He have to go for it - in real life.

Greetings,

-RC-

FAdmiral
05-24-2006, 01:25 PM
I guess because I am a strategy gamer before being
a tactical gamer, I want more logistical accuracy then
just the arcade style of shoot-um-up tactical gaming.
My Naval hero in WW2 has always been Chester A.
Nimitz and as everone knows, he never commanded
a Task Force himself but put others like Halsey & Spruance
in command. I like to make the top decisions but also
like to drop into tactical and carry out plans that I made.
A game like that has yet to be made in the WW2 era but
I feel that is just a matter of time. Every time I played
a campaign in SH3 and sank merchants, I wondered how
my actions affected the war outcome. Just me, I guess!!


JIM

Rosencrantz
05-24-2006, 01:52 PM
Hello Admiral, again!

I'm belonging good operational - strategy game too. I'm not that interested in these 3D shoot-them-up games and novadays these so called "strategy games" are usually something else than they are claimed to be. You know, 1000 single men with poor AI is not a strategy game but a bataillon of idiots.

In the operational area, it would be great to take on command one WWII german panzer division or panzer corps and to be given a task to achieve a city 100 miles from your, in the enemies rear. You could give an order down to company level, but there should be also HQs under you (bataillon, regiment, division).

In the subsim I never think my influence to the war. Only in very special situations one sinking can really have somekind of affect to the war outcome, I think.

-RC-

FAdmiral
05-24-2006, 03:02 PM
I'm waiting for the game that allows all 3 types!
------------------------------------------------------------
Strategy-Operational-Tactical
You have command of everything-Strategic
When a battle is eminent, you drop into Operational
and set up your plans for that battle.....
Then you can take over any tactical part of that battle
to get an outcome. Your ultimate actions decide which
way the war will progress. A massive undertaking but
a game like this could be played for years, off & on....


JIM

Bort
05-24-2006, 03:39 PM
SHI's 'warp' worked perfectly, but I would rather sail all that way myself.

It would be a nice option, but I don't want to see it be automatic.
Agreed! :yep:
Some folks like running each and every mission from pierside and back again, and thats great. But I found starting in the pen in SH3 cool at first but eventually tedious and boring. An option to put you right into the action would be great.

don1reed
05-24-2006, 06:28 PM
FAdmiral: Have you ever tried creating about 5 persona in a flotille and running the ops as the FK out of Kiel or Wilhelmshaven? ...say, run a differenct boat per day of the week. I'm not sure, but if all were running in the same time frame, SH3Gen would probably give the same intel where, you as the FK, could direct your flottille to investigate the reports and sightings of enemy shipping.

...donno, maybe too slow??

Onkel Neal
05-24-2006, 07:03 PM
Wasn't "warp" an extremely dirty word during the development of SH2 and SH3? :o

FAdmiral
05-24-2006, 10:06 PM
Actually, I have been doing that very thing with another
game called "Port Royale 2". I have trade convoys and
some task force convoys running around the map doing
various tasks. When the situation warrents, I will
attack an enemy convoy and up comes the tactical
fighting screen. Basically, an Operational & Tactical game.


JIM

don1reed
05-25-2006, 08:37 AM
... :hmm:

Now I'm beginning to think like a "REMF". With a staff (MS Excell or other spreadsheet) drop in the numbers and plot the course and results of my lads at sea on a large "NORDATLANTISCHER OZEAN 1870 G1"...(just happen to have one mounted behind my monitor)

Dang :o might work. Got nothing to loose...being retired...wasting time anyway :-?

...might give it a shot and let you know.

Rgds,

FAdmiral
05-25-2006, 01:52 PM
Aren't the "SubWolves" doing something along these lines?
Where you will be the German naval U-Boat Admiral and
send boats to certain sectors on the map to patrol.
Then when a convoy is sighted, order the nearest boats
to converge, form a wolfpack and then attack....
Then drop into SH3 and command the boat yourself!


JIM

g-z
05-26-2006, 06:10 AM
Yep Deep. The idea is great but it's not mine - so I'm not the genius one. (Don't remember who came first with that idea) I think few minigames in the sim might be even better than limited interaction with your crew. I rather play chess than watch my IWO finishing his meal or changing clothes. I'm not that keen to crawl to the forward compartment to see tubes being under loading and to hear zilions time those same two frases from my AI crew.

-RC-

I suggested adding the chess minigame in the 'SHIV Wishlist' thread a while back. I write electronic music and at the time, had downloaded a free plugin for my software which was chess. Pretty pointless for a music program, but i thought it would be amazing if implemented into Silent Hunter, whereby you could sit yourself down with a crewmember and challenge them to a game while on a long mission. It's nice to see that other people like the idea. :D

As for written documents - i really like the idea. Perhaps the function could be easily modded, whereby i would be able to download simple text files and put them into a certain directory. Then they would appear ingame as a book on a small shelf.

FAdmiral
05-26-2006, 10:52 AM
Bottom Line: The more options a player has, the better
the game will turn out and be playable for years to come.


JIM

joea
05-26-2006, 04:18 PM
Guys to get back to my original question. Is there any way to get higher TC with clever programming without warp? (I never said it was a dirty word during SH2 or 3...)

Sailor Steve
05-27-2006, 05:32 PM
Gameplay.cfg lets you change those figures to anything you want to. Also, I recommend SH3 Commander, as it allows you to change all TC functions with a click of the button. You should see what the crew looks like when running at 1024 in the Bridge or Control Room views! :rotfl:

I have mine set for 4096, though I almost never go that fast.

joea
05-28-2006, 12:27 PM
Steve, you misunderstood my question. Sure I have SH3 Commander and have set it for higher TC and all...but at higher TC it is not that stable. Furthermore, while I understand you need a high end machine to do all those calcs it really isn't running at 1024 sometimes I think. Again I wonder if code optimisation would help...maybe turning off the graphics engine at higher TC like in IL2 (even that is problematic).

joea
05-31-2006, 07:50 AM
:know: Bump.