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Rosencrantz
04-19-2006, 03:16 PM
In ShIII it's a funny thing control room is the only place you can put more than one officer in. That's something I can't unredstand. WHAT is the purpose for this? :doh: Especially more free bunks for the officers are badly needed. There is only two bunks for 4 - 6 officers. Is THAT realism? :down:

I really hope these mistakes won't be in SHIV too. :nope:

Sailor Steve
04-20-2006, 11:24 AM
I agree about not having enough bunks, but normally one officer has one assignment. On my destroyer we never had more than one officer in charge of a crew section, and most of the time none at all.

Rosencrantz
04-22-2006, 10:11 AM
Why it's so hard to build up crew / officers / NCOs quarters just they were on those boats? So, one bunk for one officer? Can't be that difficult.
I think in USN they use to drive the boat so, that there was a older officer acting as Officer of the Deck (on the Deck?) = WO and a younger officer in the control room. So the system is pretty like you have to use now in SHIII. BUT, if I'm right, in the german boats there was usually only WO on duty all the time, not two officers. Maybe someone can confirm this?

-RC-

Rosencrantz
04-22-2006, 10:17 AM
BTW, Steve! What do you mean when writing "officer in charge of a crew section"? Do you mean sometimes there was an officer "hangig around" in the crew section or what? I know the words but can't get the idea because lack of my english skills.

Sailor Steve
04-22-2006, 12:38 PM
BTW, Steve! What do you mean when writing "officer in charge of a crew section"? Do you mean sometimes there was an officer "hangig around" in the crew section or what? I know the words but can't get the idea because lack of my english skills.
Sorry about that. I was a radioman on a USN destroyer. We had one First Class Radioman petty officer (like a stabsoberbootsmann, I guess), but he stood regular watches just like any other radioman. Above him we had a Chief Radioman petty officer (like the stabshauptbootsman). He actually didn't come to the radio room very often, but reported all activities to the Captain. Above him was a lieutenant, the Communications Officer. He was in charge of both the radio and flag signalmen. He didn't actually stand a watch in the radio room, and only checked up on us every once in awhile. Above him was the Operations Officer, a senior lieutenant. He was over all the ship and answered directly to the XO (exectutive Officer), and handed down orders to each Officer or Chief Petty Officer under him, and in return reported activities to the XO. He actually ran the ship and reported to the Captain. All of the junior Officers took turns as Officer Of the Deck (OOD, called Officer Of the Day when in port).

What I'm trying to say is, each compartment ran fine without any officers around. The officer's job is to make sure everything is operating normally and tell those under him when they're not doing thier jobs. Even then, it's the enlisted men who do all the work and even the lowest ones usually know more about the actual running of the equipment than any of the officers.

A qualified officer should make the compartment run better, but most of the time it should run fine without him. He should only be needed for emergencies.

Rosencrantz
04-22-2006, 04:37 PM
Right, now I got what you mean, Steve! That was very interesting to read, thanks! :D
But what I supposed to talk about was, actually, that there is only two bunks for maybe six officers. I could drive the boat just two of them on the watch (WO and "LI") so the others could have some rest. But now it's not possible if I don't use the not working engine room. This is one of the most irritating details sometimes. Especially because I use to edit the number of officers in the boat so the Oberfänrichs can act as chief warrant officers (rather equal to fänrichs without port-épee, right?) So, now I have type II boat so I have one leutnant as L.I. and two oberfänrichs as chief warrant officers / engines + one leutnant as my IWO and one oberfänrich to act as oberstuermann (IIWO). Total 5 officers on the boat.
I'm planning to edit fatique model after I have returned to the base so I could use also bow torp. compartment as "free time area" for officers and crew, with only slight fatique caused when not in battle.

BTW I served as signal specialiced NCO in the LRRP, so it's nice to "meet" a "komrade"! :lol:

U-Dog
04-28-2006, 12:39 AM
Sailor Steve said" What I'm trying to say is, each compartment ran fine without any officers around. The officer's job is to make sure everything is operating normally and tell those under him when they're not doing thier jobs. Even then, it's the enlisted men who do all the work and even the lowest ones usually know more about the actual running of the equipment than any of the officers.

A qualified officer should make the compartment run better, but most of the time it should run fine without him. He should only be needed for emergencies."

Think I'm gonna substitute Manager for officer and take this to work. :yep:

'cept somtimes I think Managers simply lower efficiency.... :hmm:

most the time actually. :rotfl:

Sailor Steve
04-28-2006, 12:42 PM
I completely agree. A good officer knows when to stay out of the way and let his men do their job. This is why the captain doesn't fire the deck gun or man the dive planes.

I recently worked at a place where the manager said "I know how to do most of the jobs around here, but I also know I couldn't do it nearly as well and the people whose jobs those are. My job is to manage, not get in the way."

Threadfin
04-28-2006, 03:39 PM
I think in USN they use to drive the boat so, that there was a older officer acting as Officer of the Deck (on the Deck?) = WO and a younger officer in the control room.




Age was not the deciding factor, being submarine qualified was. Of course it was more likely that the senior offficer was qualified ahead of the younger one, but not always, especially since officers may have come from surface or other duty to submarines.

The OOD would become the dive officer when submerging so it could be done quickly.

FWIW, the chief that was in charge of the crew was called the Chief of the Boat on US submarines.

Rosencrantz
04-28-2006, 04:06 PM
Yep Threadfin. So, OOD + younger (in qual, or in ranks) in the controls. But how was it actually in the german boats? I think there was just OOD + mates. BTW there was more officers on in the USN boats...

-RC-

DeepSix
04-28-2006, 04:20 PM
I think the determining factor for USN subs was, initially (at the outbreak of the war), one's year of graduation from the USNA. So there were quite a few "older" skippers early on. These were the ones who had undergone a rigorous peacetime emphasis on cautious tactics - those who tended to be aggressive during peacetime training were weeded out as unsuitable for command. Ironically then, within the first few patrols/months of the war, the brass started relieving the more cautious skips and replacing them with aggressive ones, so the whole class-oriented process pretty much went out the window at that point (I think). Some of the older skippers went on to distinguish themselves in shore jobs (like correcting the dreadful torpedo problems); others left subs for surface ships.

Sorry, don't know about the process in the Kriegsmarine.

Rosencrantz
04-28-2006, 05:00 PM
Deepsix, you good old fellow... did you really read our previus posts? Or did you just woke up? :lol:
We were not really talking about the skippers, just basic rutins running the boat... :roll:

No offencive meant...

Greetings,

-RC the klown- :-j

DeepSix
04-28-2006, 05:22 PM
Deepsix, you good old fellow... did you really read our previus posts? Or did you just woke up? :lol:
We were not really talking about the skippers, just basic rutins running the boat... :roll:

No offencive meant...

Greetings,

-RC the klown- :-j

Well, yeah, actually, I did read them. No offense taken; I just thought what I said was related since there was talk of officers in general. You are, of course, free to ignore it.

Rosencrantz
05-05-2006, 03:25 PM
Ok, ok... you post is related, of course. I was just joking. I had to read your post twice before I understood you took another point of wiew.

-RC-

perisher
05-07-2006, 05:01 PM
... each compartment ran fine without any officers around.

It's the same in any navy.

This is especially true in small vessels, were, because of the small numbers in the crew, quite junior ratings have to do work which in larger units would have been done by senior ratings.

I was signalman in the Royal Navy, mostly in minesweepers.