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cmdrk
03-27-2006, 01:50 PM
It has already been mentioned about the crew management using a watch bill system, so the crew can be set up in shifts. Which I hope includes setting stations assignments for battle stations torpedo and gun.

What I haven't seen mentioned is standing watch officer orders. There have been complaints about aircraft kills when using time compression. Watch officers often had orders to dive at first sight of anything remotely like a plane. I wonder how many subs dived to avoid birds. I'm not saying this should be a sure defense. It wasn't in real war, but would be related to watch crew experience to spot the plane and crew effiency in dives.

The AI for this should not be active when in real time. It can be assumed you, as captain, are on watch and you have to make the order.
Also, if standing orders are triggered, time compression should drop to 1x or 2x depending on hazard.

Other ideas for watch orders can be to perform actions for certain situations. For example, the boat can be orderd to dive to periscope depth at sunrise automatically, or when dawn occurs the game goes to real time and a crew's voice calls for the captain's attention.

This will just be an expansion of the game's logic when ships are spotted, with an added twist of automatically initiating certain commands.

Feedback?

Rosencrantz
03-29-2006, 05:26 PM
Yep. Automatic dive "if something on the air" sounds good but I'm not sure about dawn thing. You could use your own alarm for that. Your idea for battle station assignements is my favourite too.

I would like to have WO who would take care there wan't be any collisions, or at least he would try to avoid them (when in fog, for example). It's his duty.

cmdrk
03-29-2006, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
I just realize - I meant dusk not dawn.
When I play, I plot out a course, set the TC to 64 and work on my laptop until something happens. At dusk, I like to scope out the situation before a surface. At sunrise an auto dive is fine.

For collision avoidance, outside of a hard port or strbd, would you want a standing order for 'All Stop' or 'Back Emg'? If the collision is with a warship, do you want a crash dive or set depth to xx Ft?

Keep in mind I'm thinking of the initial response. The game should go to x1 time then the player can take over.

Also, I'm thinking of these orders being somewhat user defined. I think the community can define some standard events and actions.

Event: Visibility < 200 mtrs or yrds
Action: Slow to 1/3 or Slow to 1 kt or Periscope Depth

Rosencrantz
03-30-2006, 10:17 AM
Well, I know, collision avoidance could be too tricky to build up to work properly. You know, the WO should be vice enough to make right decessions in few seconds depending the event. Sure we don't wan't to see any stupid actions.

BUT, when should the game go to x1? One of the most irritating things with SHIII is that if the watch spots the ship when you are at TC (256 or so, doesn't matter), you'll know right away is it the enemy or a friendly unit, because the TC drops to x1 for the enemy and x8 for friendly / neutral units.
These kind of little things can sometimes really spoil your feelings. They are like a morse code... :rock:

About sunrise: I usually do the routine dive starting maybe an hour or half BEFORE the sunrise. Why? Just for the case there is a ship not yet spotted because the lower visibility = no nasty surprises when it'll start geting brighter. In my case automatic dive on sunrise won't be a problem because I would be already submerged. But how about when on shallow waters? And sure there is many (between non-hardcores, I think) of us who don't wan't to do routine dives every morning. So, this should be optional... And also, maybe Devs could use their time more creative than thinking how to build up a properly working automatic dive on sunrise?

So I think maybe these kind of actions should be left to player himself. BUT, how about just information coming from the bridge: "Hey, Conn, tell the skipper the weather will be bloody foggy before soon..."? And sure, TC x1. Major changes in weather = info for player. That would be, at least, easy to script properly I think.

How about periscope routines? Somehow I miss the WO, who would be able to raise the scope let's say in every 10 or 15 minutes when on routines and submerged. But how to build this up? Own periscope station for the WO in control panel? I mean, I don't wan't my WO to take a quick look when the hot situation is on...

One new idea pop in my mind: You know, in RL skippers use to leave notes for the WOs (about changes in course, speed and other things). So, WHY we can't have this kind of system. You know, a drop list encluding some actions like "Go to periscope deapth - Take the look with the scope - make your cours... make your speed... dive if any ship spotted... and so on + possibility to add time when the action(s) should be take over. This kind of "notebook" could work like an alarm watch, in 24 hours sifts... You got what I mean (I'm not a native speaker as you can see...)?

Greetings,

-RC-

cmdrk
03-30-2006, 03:54 PM
One new idea pop in my mind: You know, in RL skippers use to leave notes for the WOs (about changes in course, speed and other things). So, WHY we can't have this kind of system. You know, a drop list encluding some actions like "Go to periscope deapth - Take the look with the scope - make your cours... make your speed... dive if any ship spotted... and so on + possibility to add time when the action(s) should be take over. This kind of "notebook" could work like an alarm watch, in 24 hours sifts... You got what I mean (I'm not a native speaker as you can see...)?

I understand. It's the same idea I'm trying to explain.

I see the orders as being changed during gameplay. When your sub is in a safe area - like between Midway and Pearl - you remove the dive order at dawn. Also, the dawn time doesn't need to be a set time. Maybe set the dive time as 0530 or 0645.

This may be redunant but...
Event : At xxxx game time (around dawn)
Actions:
Depth to Periscope or Crash Dive or Surface or xxx Ft or Maintain or NA
Speed to 1/3 or Std or Full or Flank or Maintain or NA
Rudder to Turn To or Turn Away or Steady or Follow Plot or NA
Stations to Torpdeo or Gun or AA or Surf/Subm Watch (depends on depth) or NA
Notify Capt (tc to x1) or Exec (tc to x2) or Watch Off (tc unchange) or NA

or

Event: Enemy Warship Sighted
Actions:
Depth Crash Dive
Speed to Std
Rudder to Turn Away
Stations to Torpdeo
Notify Capt

or

Event: Enemy Warship Sighted
Actions:
Depth Periscope
Speed to 1/3
Rudder to Turn To
Stations to Torpdeo
Notify Capt

Change when desired.

Rosencrantz
04-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Yep. I agree, allmost... Why to cancel "Dive at dawn" when on "safety area"? You know... trim dives... :lol: (I'm just kiding - If we could have this kind of system you could adjust it rather free... :up: )

What I would like to see in this kind of system is that its "out look", "skin", should be something like a notebook and, more important, it should be working all the time if not "shut down". I mean, it shoudn't be working just with TC but also if you are at x1. So you could be, for example, patrolling outside the enemy harbour, yourself maybe doing a course plot or writing your Captains Log - and at the same time your Exec would rise the scope and take a quick look, what's going on on the surface... And you would be notified if there would be smoke on the horizont or something... aircraft spotted or so...

Interesting idea, I think. But you'll bet, we won't see anything like that with SHIV I think. You know... Maybe Dev's are reading these messages, but when everybody is making their own request (and often two of us have opposite opinitions)...

But what else could be really worth to have? You know, we can't have everything and personally I would like to keep my own fantasies and hopes between some limits.

Greetings,

-RC-

cmdrk
04-03-2006, 10:03 AM
Yes. The skin/interface idea is good - like a log book.

Your user control on/off is reasonable. Maybe a 3 way option - Normal On/ TC On/ Off.

But it just a dream. I'm glad we got the concept aired, maybe some Dev will see it and be inspired.

I guess we'll have to wait till SHIV comes out to see what community wishes come true.

Thanks. Your responses are appreciated. :up:

Trout
04-06-2006, 11:13 AM
THings like this should be in the difficulty settings. Some people play this as a sub commander sim, in which case collision avoidance should be automatic when the captain is not on the bridge. Other people will want total control over processes like this.

Love the idea of a watch bill.

ONe thing I would like to see is the ability to detect fatigue and morale based on the LOOK of the various crewmen. If they look and sound tired or if they are not sharp in their communications or orders execution, that could mean that the captain rotates a watch early, or maybe make a permanent change in watch members or watch leader.

THis, by the way, would partly justify the need to model the entire boat interior. Hence if you want to check the status of the crew in teh torpedo room, you have to walk there and look at them (watch them carry out some orders)


Trout

DeepSix
04-06-2006, 12:49 PM
What I keep seeing people ask for, in general (and in several threads), is that they want a skipper that's a bit more "removed" from the mundane tasks of running the boat (e.g., watch bills, user-definable routines for shadowing, diving, etc.) than in SH3. Put another way, they want an XO. I really like this general idea, and hope many of the great suggestions I've read will be incorporated; having an "exec" onboard would really add to the playability, IMO.

As on surface ships, the exec played an important role in administration, being in charge of most paperwork, ordinary discipline, navigation, morale, and a hundred other day-to-day details. During attacks, he served as assistant approach officer. A good exec enabled his skipper to remain aloof from routine problems so that he could concentrate on the objective of the mission.

- Clay Blair, Jr., Silent Victory