retreat! retreat!

[GlowwormGuy]

Is there any way to make the AI retreat once it suffers a bad hit - they seem to keep sailing on mindlessly into oblivion.

Thanks,
Mountbatten

[CBDR]

GlowwormGuy,

If there is a way to inject some intelligence into the AI controlled ships I haven't found it yet. This applies to both friendly as well as enemy ships.

For a while I have been working on a Surigao Straight scenario. Thus far I have the US left flank cruisers (3 CA, 2 CL), the US right flank cruisers (1 CA, 2 CL) and the US battle line (6 BB) against the IJN units (1 BB, 1 CA and 1 DD). All units start at their historical 0340 positions and on their historical courses. No matter what orders I give the IJN units the IJN BB always conducts a suicidal Banzai charge up the straight. In addition, it always picks out my ship for a target! Hey, what's wrong with the other guys?!!! Even with reduced muzzle velocities and no radar the Japanese BB still has unbelievable accuracy at night and at over 16,000 yards. Curiously, the Japanese CA and DD seem to choose one of two courses of action - either turn around and high tail it back down the straight, or attempt to go northeast between Hibuson Island and Dinegat Island and avoid my forces. Who knows what is in the Japanese AI files?!

The American AI ships have their own bizarre tactics. Both the right flank cruisers and the battle line turn directly for the Japanese BB and head straight for him. What's really stupid is that the battle line is set up crossing the Japanese T (US on an easterly course, IJN heading due north), yet the idiots turn in succession (i.e., follow the leader) to the south, thus only allowing the lead ship (USS West Virginia) a clear shot, and then only with its forward turrets. Arggghhhh!

[GlowwormGuy]

I've observed that as well - that they concentrate fire on you when they can. Another weird thing I've seen them do is their refusal to react when under fire - I was playing with my hypothetical 20-inch gunned super BB vs the Japanese fleet (Siam Gulf 1941 that never was) and firing at them from behind and they just kept steaming on their merry way without even scattering to find out who was dropping 20 inch shells on them.

Sigh!

Another weird thing is I programmed 10 count em 10 massive Luftwaffe groups to try and wipe out my modified Dido cruiser as she steamed from London to Edinburgh and they just buzz around within gun range and NEVER drop a bomb!

Does changing the ROE have any sort of effect? Like force them to skirmish at long range or something? I hate these Banzai to the death stupid tactics.

Good to hear that Surigao strait's still up and running... ah for a Fuso to shell!

Mountbatten

[CBDR]

GlowwormGuy,

I haven't played too much with large air groups, but I have found (at least for single aircraft) that the standard

Order x.x = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,FULL

will cause aircraft to attack. I also set the group's unit type to the type of aircraft, such as:

UnitType = TORPEDO (or BOMBER, FIGHTER, or DIVEBOMBER)

KLH's scenario editing notes has a lot of good info.

Another annoying thing I have noticed with the AI is that, in a night action, they never illuminate with starshell, even if the unit has them. With Aegis like accuracy I guess they don't have to.

In my Surigao Straight scenario I modified NBBFuso as follows:
1. Changed Model = NBBNagato to Model = NBBHaruna (there seems to something wrong with the Nagato model). Yes, this deletes 1/3 of the main battery, but as the ship charges head on at the Americans, the forward firing armament is the same.
2. Deleted the 5.5" guns. The historical 14 - 6" guns are enough to deal with!
3. Deleted all radars. If a surface search radar is present the sim assumes the ship has a top of the line fire control radar. Even so, the Yamashiro has astonishing gunnery in the sim!

[GlowwormGuy]

Velly Intellesting CBDR-san!! Looking forward to your finished Surigao Strait!

I've tried the ROEs and the destroy unlimited all with them but they're being stupid... well back to the drawing board I guess.

Best wishes,
Mountbatten

[Palindromeria]

try adding this order to enemy groups.

Order1.2 = ATTACK,1,DEFAULT,GROUP

instead of blithely staying on course and allowing me to lob dozens of torps at them the enemy formation proactively reacts to my presence as soon as i am detected. they change course head towards and open fire without waiting for ME to attack.

in this case the "1" referred to my group of dd.

in the case of multiple friendly formations try
Order1.2 = ATTACK,1,2,3,4,DEFAULT,GROUP
presumably the ai will attack whichever is nearby.

as far as the enemy focusing its gunfire - enemy formations tend to target whoever shot them first. doesnt matter if its a pt boat or a bb.
nor does it matter if your in a pt boat and they are getting destroyed by a bb ! (great threat assessment ai huh ? ) as long as you shot them before your friendly bb, odds are YOU will be target.

a dum dc trick in general is to send a controlled ship in to draw fire have it race off out of range and then you attack with the rest of your forces while the enemy is still busy firing at a distant target.

LIMITED, RECON, STEALTHY,UNLIMITED
DESTROY, HARASS, HIT_AND_RUN, REPULSE, SHADOW

some of those may help as well...

[CBDR]

Palindromeria,

Thanks for the orders suggestions - I'll give them a try.

GlowwormGuy,

Here's the Surigao Straight scenario as it currently stands. Nothing fancy, and definitely not a fair fight! The player is set up on flagship USS Louisville at the head of the left flank cruisers.

Any suggestions for improving this scenario are welcvome.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;
;;
;;
;;
;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[SCENARIO]
Date = 19441025
Time = 0336
Duration = 120
TimeOut = 0
Type = TYPE A
Major = 10
Minor = 5
Origin = 125.416667,10.500000
InitialZoom = 5
Weather = CLEAR
DrawOvlyText = TRUE
TitleEnglish = Surigao Straight
TitleGerman = Uebungsmission 1


;;; Objectives ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


;;; Bases ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


;;; Radio Messages ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


;;; Multi ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


;;; Sides ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[SIDE1]
Alignment = ALLIES
Name = Allies
Doctrine = American

[SIDE2]
Alignment = AXIS
Name = Axis
Doctrine = Japanese


;;; Groups ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[GROUP1]
Commander = HUMAN
Type = SHIPSQUADRON
UnitType = Cruiser
Side = 1
Name = Left Flank Cruisers
Nationality = American
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW

[GROUP1.1]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = DESTROYER
Name = Your Ship
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW

[GROUP2]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = Battleship
Side = 1
Name = Battleline
Nationality = American
Order1.1 = Speed,Telegraph,TWO_THIRDS,-1,-1
Order1.2 = Formation, COLUMN,910,6
Order1.3 = ROE,CAPITAL,RECON,DESTROY,BEST,FULL,-1,-1
Order1.4 = WayPt2,125.433333,10.578497
Order2.1 = WayPt2,125.483333,10.55
Order3.1 = WayPt2,125.383333,10.55
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW

[GROUP3]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = Cruiser
Side = 1
Name = Right Flank Cruisers
Nationality = American
Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,TWO_THIRDS,-1,-1
Order1.2 = Formation, ECHELON_RIGHT,910,6
Order1.3 = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,BEST,FULL,-1,-1

[GROUP4]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = Battleship
Side = 2
Name = Yamashiro
Nationality = Japanese
Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1
Order1.2 = ROE,TRANSPORTS,RECON,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL-1,-1
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW

[GROUP5]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = Cruiser
Side = 2
Name = CA Escort
Nationality = Japanese
Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1
Order1.2 = ROE,ALL,LIMITED,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL,-1,-1
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW

[GROUP6]
Type = SHIPDIVISION
UnitType = Destroyer
Side = 2
Name = DD Escort
Nationality = Japanese
Order1.1 = Speed,TELEGRAPH,FLANK,-1,-1
Order1.2 = ROE,ALL,UNLIMITED,DESTROY,EVADE,FULL,-1,-1
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW


;;; Units ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[UNIT1]
Group = 1.1
TypeAbrev = CA
Class = NCANorthampton
Name = CA28 Louisville
Control = HUMAN
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Location = 125.333333,10.529599
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT2]
Group = 1.1
TypeAbrev = CA
Class = NCAPortland
Name = CA33 Portland
Location = 125.329159,10.529744
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT3]
Group = 1.1
TypeAbrev = CA
Class = NCANewOrleans
Name = CA36 Minneapolis
Location = 125.324985,10.529888
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT4]
Group = 1.1
TypeAbrev = CL
Class = NCLCleveland
Name = CL58 Denver
Location = 125.320811,10.530032
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT5]
Group = 1.1
TypeAbrev = CL
Class = NCLCleveland
Name = CL56 Columbia
Location = 125.316637,10.530176
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT6]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBMaryland
Name = West Virginia
Location = 125.319757,10.578497
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT7]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBMaryland
Name = Maryland
Location = 125.311402,10.578497
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT8]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBNewMexico
Name = Missippi
Location = 125.303047,10.578497
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT9]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBNewMexico
Name = Tennessee
Location = 125.294692,10.578497
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT10]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBNewMexico
Name = California
Location = 125.286337,10.578497
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT11]
Group = 2
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBTexas
Name = Pennsylvania
Location = 125.277983,10.578497
Orientation = 090
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT12]
Group = 3
TypeAbrev = CA
Class = NCANorfolk
Name = Shropshire
Location = 125.267747,10.530426
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT13]
Group = 3
TypeAbrev = CL
Class = NCLBrooklyn
Name = Boise
Location = 125.264693,10.527607
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT14]
Group = 3
TypeAbrev = CL
Class = NCLBrooklyn
Name = Phoenix
Location = 125.261638,10.524788
Orientation = 092
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT15]
Group = 4
TypeAbrev = BB
Class = NBBFuso
Name = Yamashiro
Location = 125.386529,10.345238
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Orientation = 0
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT
Damage = 0.50

[UNIT16]
Group = 5
TypeAbrev = CA
Class = NCAMogami
Name = Mogami
Location = 125.380519,10.333333
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Orientation = 0
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[UNIT17]
Group = 6
TypeAbrev = DD
Class = NDDShiratsuyu
Name = Shigure
Location = 125.386529,10.333333
Flag = TRUE
Guide = TRUE
Orientation = 0
Captain = 80
Crew = 80
BoilersHot = TRUE
IconName = NSHIP
Display = SHOW_AS_UNIT

[GlowwormGuy]

Looks neat, I'll try it out. Perhaps, to even out the odds a bit you could throw in Shima's force as a random reinforcement following close at hand or even joining Nishimura - and to make it really nasty, what about throwing in Kurita flanking you from the rear? As a random reinforcement of course...

That should even out the odds a bit.

Cheers,
Mountbatten