Why not serve the Royal Navy for a change?

[-Dreadnought-]

It would seem that the next part in the Silent Hunter-series will be in the Pacific, right?
I was just wondering, why not make a campaign in the Royal Navy and not always the jerries or yankies? Just a thought... :ahoy:

[Etienne]

The RN's WWII submarine campaign was not as grand as the americans or the german ones.

[STEED]

Would be nice to have some missions in it that are British :yep:

[Torplexed]

I've always been in favor of a British Mediterranean sim. Play the role of ace of the deep Lt. Commander Wanklyn of the Upholder for once. I've always been told that would be a niche within a niche market.

[STEED]

I've always been in favor of a British Mediterranean sim.

Thats a interesting idea :up:

[Type XXIII]

A RN subsim could also include the late war patrols along the Norwegian coast and in the Skagerrak.

Green water patrols along the coast of Norway would be interesting. (And probably demand alot of skill in submerged navigation.)

[GlowwormGuy]

Sigh... for several years I've researched the British submarine campaigns with particular emphasis on the U-class battles in the Med. Unfortunately SH3 came along and I really don't want to bother upgrading - it was for SH2. But it's really something that's long overdue.

Mountbatten

[Torplexed]

Yeah...it always gets squeezed out by the bigger and more well-known Atlantic and Pacific submarine campaigns. :( Commanding a British sub in the Med would make a good challenge. Especially since they had to spend most daylight hours running submerged because they were operating under Axis controlled airspace.

[Wulfmann]

It would seem that the next part in the Silent Hunter-series will be in the Pacific, right?
I was just wondering, why not make a campaign in the Royal Navy and not always the jerries or yankies? Just a thought... :ahoy:

Well, since I am not Gay it would have little interest for me! :rotfl:

Wulfmann

[GlowwormGuy]

Not to mention that many parts of the Med are coastal shallow waters and they are visible to aircraft above, or that plenty of Italian supply was delivered by coastal convoys in light ships forcing the subs to go very close in!

Also... it might be interesting to get a crack at this sub:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_52-42_mk1.htm

Cheers,
Mountbatten

[Torplexed]

Verrry Nice. Always enjoy the exotic subs. X-1 looks to be the British equivalent of the Surcouf or Nautilus. Why waste a torpedo when an old-fashioned broadside will do? :up:

[GlowwormGuy]

Note how she has TWO twin turrets. Can you imagine surfacing 500 yards from a startled freighter and shelling it into oblivion! Yeaha!! Or firing salvoes at the enemy fleet forcing it to detach its escorting DDs to hunt for the turretted subs while sending in your own DDs to launch a torpedo attack on the now vulnerable heavies? Maybe they could mix that design up with the K class steam submarines - would probably take the same amount of time to ready the turrets as it would to ready the steam engines for surface running...

I can dream can't I?
Mountbatten

[deglaser]

I've always been in favor of a British Mediterranean sim. Play the role of ace of the deep Lt. Commander Wanklyn of the Upholder for once. I've always been told that would be a niche within a niche market.

I totally agree. In fact some of the grandest submissions during the war were committed by the British. I think a pacific campaign should include the option to either take command of a British or an American submarine.

Since most people seem to hold the view that the British submarine force during the war was rather minuscle and unimportant compared to the American and German U-boat offensive, maybe a petition is in order?
Otherwise chances are that developers won't even contemplate the idea that a subsim based on the Royal Navy would be a great.

paul

[GlowwormGuy]

Heck if they don't want it, with all the stuff Betasom has done in SH2 we might as well do it ourselves...

but I'll be missing that X1.

Mountbatten

[Torplexed]

Nice to know I am not alone on this. Possibly a hopeless quest but it doesn't hurt to voice interest and show support for His Majesty's Submarines. Perhaps it may have to be up to Betasom to create one but if a British WW2 sub sim should ever appear on the horizon I've got my signature image all ready to go.

She may be a bit stubby but beauty is in the eye of the Upholder..... ;)

http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/Upholder.jpg

[GlowwormGuy]

I like the way you think! And I think it was Serge or them who released the Upholder a year ago or so... when SH3 came out I was thinking maybe maybe not but I don't think my machine can handle it and I don't really want to shell out for it anyway... and now with SH4 on the way... I don't know I guess from what I saw of SH3 I wasn't that impressed - maybe because its still not giving me what I want w/c is buildable user made ships.

Actually with the Betasom team gradually filling up the Med with ships (though I hope they do some more small craft particularly for the med like Yachts, Xebecs, Caiques, Lifeboats - and maybe some aquatic life too) and bases (when Malta comes along it will be a sign unto me!) as long as they keep going then we may just have enough to do it ourselves, the heck with the big money grubbing companies. I mean there's Project Messerwetzer out there, there's Kriegstanz and we got a ton of stuff ready to go as it is. My promise, when Malta comes out lets get together with Horsa and do a British Med Sub Campaign!

Cheers,
Mountbatten

P.S.
And it could be expanded further after Italy surrenders into the North Sea - sink the Tirpitz anyone?

[Godalmighty83]

i think game makers are only just getting the idea that everyone else in the world is getting a bit tired of playing as americans all the bloody time.

[Takeda Shingen]

i think game makers are only just getting the idea that everyone else in the world is getting a bit tired of playing as americans all the bloody time.

We haven't played as the Americans in the last ten years. Personally, I am tired of seeing every period submarine simulation set as the Germans in the Battle of the Atlantic. Talk about redundancy of mission objectives.

To the point of the thread, the British uses of submarine operations in the war, though limited, were varied and frequently revolving around observation and intelligence gathering (kind of like how the US used its SSNs in the Cold War). I would welcome this as a great alternative to the WWII monotony of 'find convoy-sink ship-take depth charges-repeat' of the Uboat war.

[STEED]

To the point of the thread, the British uses of submarine operations in the war, though limited, were varied and frequently revolving around observation and intelligence gathering (kind of like how the US used its SSNs in the Cold War). I would welcome this as a great alternative to the WWII monotony of 'find convoy-sink ship-take depth charges-repeat' of the Uboat war.

Sounds like a good idea :up:

[JU_88]

Hey hey, Dont underestimate the british Sub fleet in WW2.

They regularly attacked the German - Norweigen bound convoys in the North sea - with alot of success.
They played a vital role in the Med too, attacking Axis shipping and

Damaging the supply chain to Rommels Africa korps.
Many of the british subs operated in shallow waters in coastal areas, as such many of them were lost due to mines and accidents.

Later the Larger T-Class subs had some success in the Pacific against the japanese, The T class had one hell of torpedo loadout, it even had tubes admid ships...

The S, U and V class subs were the most commonly used. British Torpedos were much more reliable than the Germans, but not so hi-tech.

:rock:

Some pics...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/xtow.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Unseengun2sm.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/unseen10.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/unseen8.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/ThrStoGr.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/DOLPHIN4.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Vclass.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Uclass.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Tclass2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Tclass1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Sclass.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Oclass.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/Aclass.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/tdrwng.gif

[GlowwormGuy]

Nice plug for the T class there! Unfortunately I've not got (and probably won't get) SH3 but I still got SH2 kicking around and I was wondering, particularly with the Italian Regia Marina growing in strength if some Brittanophiles out there would be interested in putting together a mod for the British Submarines in World War 2. I've got a working X-Craft Sim (I've been putting this together for quite a while now, still in the experiment stage, but it seems to work fine. No new models unfortunately but what's there works the part). With Floater's amazing Kriegstanz and KDeveloper and the plethora of new models and possible repaints at our command I think it would be possible.

Campaigns:

Prewar exercises 1939
Opening of War 1939-40
Norway 1940
North Atlantic 1940-41
Mediterranean 1940-43
Norwegian Coast 1942-44
Pacific Struggle 1943-1945
Cloak and Dagger Med (Torch, Leros, Italian Surrender) 1942-44
Cloak and Dagger Northern Europe (X-Craft, D-Day) 1942-1944
Pacific Victory 1945

I think there should be more room for variety than just sink ships and such, like mentioned here intel gathering, search and rescue, landing commandos - and rescuing them - etc.

There should be really no problem filling them - there's a sizable amount of info on the British subs online and we just need to translate these patrols into udf files one patrol at a time. Then we divvy them up amongst the campaigns, filling the holes where needed with our own creations. And if there are 10 variations of a particular mission who cares, we can include all. The idea being, each 'campaign thread' should really be unpredictable, taking you to exotic distant vistas in one or keeping you in a certain specific area to make the best of things in others. And success would not necessarily entail sinking things but following orders - rendezvous, rescue, intel, weather spotting, etc.

Just wondering if there would be any interest,
Mountbatten

[Godalmighty83]

oh i would even put up with SF to get the chance to take a t-class out to play.

[Torplexed]

oh i would even put up with SF to get the chance to take a t-class out to play.

*Gasp!*

The market for vintage British subs is certainly out there if somebody would recognize it. ;)

[Godalmighty83]

who could say no to such a pretty face?

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/6226/unk4.jpg

[GlowwormGuy]

Well just as long as they make it ruddy moddable we can probably find a way to make it work. As for me, with the Italian modding team churning out ships to fill up the mediterranean and since there's a playable L, U, S class already I don't see why we should wait.

Mountbatten

[Bruno Lotse]

Sorry,can't resist.

Bloody British pirates with their Jolly Roger.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3629/Untitled1.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Untitled1.jpg)
HMS Turbulent crew under the command of Commander J.'Tubby' Linton at Algiers in February 1943. Just from a successful patrol. Unfortunately just over the month this photograph was taken HMS Turbulent failed to return from her next patrol Most probably she was sunk by Italian DD Arditto in March 1943. It's not Atlantik. It's Medditerrenian. You can see sea floor 50-80 m under your keel.
During WW2 the Royal Navy lost 74 submarine crews.
The German Navy - 821, the United States Navy - 51.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1000/Crew.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Crew.jpg)
The seamen's mess in HMS Tribune with the petty officer supervising a daily ritual of 'tot' - rum ration.
On British subs rum was issued neat to all ratings unlike the rest of the Navy where junior rates had their rum deluted.
Incidentally, have a look at that naked pin-girl on the wall. Girls or horses - drunken salor, make your pick. :arrgh!:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3733/Tribune.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Tribune.jpg)
The fore ends of HMS Tribune. Remember Das Boot?

HMS Storm entering Portsmouth
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7820/HMSStorm.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=HMSStorm.jpg)
:D

[JU_88]

Yeah - I hope they at least throw in a playble T class sub in SH4,
nine torpeedo tubes! monster, monster! but like all the Limey subs they were a bit slow!

Nice pics though, youd have thought the Brits would have had more sense to keep the large T class boats out of the med! at least the germans had enough sense to keep IX boats out, and apply them where their long range could be put to good use.

The U and V class boats worked better in the Med, T class for the Pacific and S class for every where else :up:

[Godalmighty83]

the admiralty never really got the hang of subs, they were officers bought up on teachings of standing face to face to the enemy while lobbing shells at each over.


'hide under water? how cowardly!'

[Bruno Lotse]

It's British class system. Who were commanders of battleships or cruisers? Lords&Sirs. Who commanded subs - guys from middle/working class. Even worse - lot's of them were Scotts, i.e. not English gentry (Lt.Cdr. Malcolm David Wanklyn). Having said that, let's not forget -

"Of all the branches of men in the Forces, there is none which shows more devotion and faces grimmer perils than the submariner. Great deeds are done in the air and on the land; nevertheless, nothing surpasses your exploits."
Who said that? Winston Churchill :rock:

[GlowwormGuy]

"During WWII, 21 Uboats were sunk by Allied submarines, 13 of those by the British alone."

I'm presuming that these were all surface kills - the U-boat was ambushed by a submerged Allied sub, right? Nothing like what happened in errr U-571? Just need to lay that issue to rest. I'm arguing with someone about the facts of that movie.

By the way Bruno, that's a great quote for a British sub campaign...

Mountbatten

[Godalmighty83]

if its in u-571 its wrong.

[JU_88]

"During WWII, 21 Uboats were sunk by Allied submarines, 13 of those by the British alone."

I'm presuming that these were all surface kills - the U-boat was ambushed by a submerged Allied sub, right? Nothing like what happened in errr U-571? Just need to lay that issue to rest. I'm arguing with someone about the facts of that movie.

By the way Bruno, that's a great quote for a British sub campaign...

Mountbatten

:hmm:


..... from U boat.net......

U-864
Type IXD2
Laid down 15 Oct, 1942 AG Weser, Bremen
Commissioned 9 Dec, 1943 Korvkpt. Ralf-Reimar Wolfram
Commanders 9 Dec, 1943 - 9 Feb, 1945 KrvKpt. Ralf-Reimar Wolfram

Career 1 patrol 9 Dec, 1943 - 31 Oct, 1944 4. Flottille (training)
1 Nov, 1944 - 9 Feb, 1945 33. Flottille (front boat)

Successes No ships sunk or damaged
Fate Sunk 9 Feb, 1945 in the North Sea west of Bergen, Norway, in position 60.46N, 04.35E, by torpedoes from the British submarine HMS Venturer. 73 dead (all hands lost).

On 9 Feb, 1945 the British submarine HMS Venturer, commanded by James S. Launders, torpedoed and sank this boat.
This is the only known incident in all of naval warfare in which one submarine sinks another while both are submerged.


:rock: :rock: :rock:

Us Kaluens are damn lucky them Limey subs didnt make it in to SH3 :smug:

[GlowwormGuy]

Well now THAT is interesting... I wonder how they managed it. Then again it did happen at the end of the war with a more advanced V Class Sub and like you said it was the ONLY time in the war that it happened.

Mountbatten

[JU_88]

The only time in naval history even!, I hate nationalism, but that almost makes me proud to be British :oops: I guess they were either

a) very lucky!
b) used the hydrophone,
c) saw its scope
d) worked out a solution before it dived
e) all of the above!

[Godalmighty83]

i doubt we will ever know exactly how it happened, my bet is on a hydrophone contact and a depth guess of periscope/snorkel depth

[Ducimus]

It would seem that the next part in the Silent Hunter-series will be in the Pacific, right?
I was just wondering, why not make a campaign in the Royal Navy and not always the jerries or yankies? Just a thought... :ahoy:



The pacific and atlantic were the largest, and most well known submarine campaigns to ever exist in history. In otherwords , these two campaigns, arguably make other less known sub campaigns look like a footnote in history. Not as many people would be intrested in that, it doesnt have the broad appeal a game company is looking for to sell more units.

That and from a content standpoint theres alot more material to work with in regards with the Silent Service or the Ubootwaffle.

[JU_88]

In all seriousness, some playable British subs would be a great bonus, as they had some really good ones, but I dont think they should be the focal point for SH4 as the Brits submarine campaign wasnt nearly as big or as busy as that of the kreigsmarine and USN.

We'll just have to wait and see eh.... :shifty:

[Bruno Lotse]

the Brits submarine campaign wasnt nearly as big or as busy as that of the kreigsmarine and USN.

Let's see.

During WW2 British submariners sank 9 enemy cruisers, 16 destroyers, 3 minesweepers, 1 auxiliary cruiser, and 368 merchants (826300BRT). I do not include results of mining operations where Brits were extremely active.

British submariners proved to be the best submarine killers. They hold the world record in number of killed enemy submarines - 41!!! subs. So, they were damn professionals through and through.

Their job (as in the German case) was the most dangerous in the Navy. 74 British subs did not see their home port again - heaviest casualties per capita in the service. Americans lost 54 subs.

German submariners failed to meet strategic goal. They were supposed to strangle Brits to submission. They were supposed to put British on their knees, to make them sue for peace. Weren't they? It never happened. So, strategically UBootWaffe proved to be useless. They failed to deliver.

British submariners met their strategic goals. They were supposed to strangle Axis forces in the Mediterrenian. Rommel lost in Africa in most part because he never had enough what he needed for his operations - fuel, spare parts, ammunition. Rommel was Hitler's favorite, he was very important for propaganda purposes and as such he was on the first priority list. Yet it never happened because British submariners were very adapt in sending transports bound to Afrika Korp right to the bottom. Submariners also saved Malta. You said that using T type didn't make sense. Too large, too clumsy. The reason they were using T and other large mine layers was provision of supplies to Malta. On the way back they would do mine laying on route of transports to Afrika Korp and Italians. Everything in extremely perilous for submarine warfare conditions - shallow, clear waters pursued by Italian destroyers who, incidentally, were very professional in job which they were doing. For the whole war German destroyers managed to sink 1 British sub. The bulk of British sub losses (again - 74 subs) is Regia Marina exploits.

Yeah, they also blew up Tirpitz, by the way.

Like Winnie said:
"Of all the branches of men in the Forces, there is none which shows more devotion and faces grimmer perils than the submariner. Great deeds are done in the air and on the land; nevertheless, nothing surpasses your exploits."

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9127/Attendolo.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=Attendolo.jpg)
Italian cruiser Muzio Attendolo in Messina in fall 1942.
'Courtesy' of HMS Unbroken... :o

[JU_88]

@Bruno Lotse

Ok i'll re-phrase that, :roll: A british Sub campaign wouldnt be as popular...... Why not?... I dunno ask the Americans.

Any way dont attack me! :( im your side, I want to play with British subs as much as you do, Im just being objective thats all.... :-j

[JU_88]

@Bruno Lotse

Ok i'll re-phrase that, :roll: A british Sub campaign wouldnt be as popular...... Why not?... I dunno ask the Americans.

Any way dont attack me! :( im your side, I want to play with British subs as much as you do, Im just being objective thats all.... :-j

[Godalmighty83]

it wouldnt really have to be a whole campaign, just at a point in time at certain ports off a british sub for sale for those with enough renown like you do the other subs in the game.

enemy subs were caught and used by the other side, i believe the royal navy had a couple of type VII's.

[JU_88]

it wouldnt really have to be a whole campaign, just at a point in time at certain ports off a british sub for sale for those with enough renown like you do the other subs in the game.

enemy subs were caught and used by the other side, i believe the royal navy had a couple of type VII's.


yeah they got one VIIC and renamed it HMS Graph, she was known to have snuck in to the Bay of Biscay on a couple of occasions and made attempt attacks on other Uboats (perfect for the job), but she never sunk anything. She ended up wrecked off the coat of scotland.... I think.

[-Pv-]

I would have no objection to playing brit subs in Europe against the Axis. I read a couple Brittish sub historical WWII books that had me as rivited as any other service. I'm pleased to play the Pacific again in modern graphics, but would have had no screaming objection if the direction had gone to Brittish against the Axis. Look at the populariity of the Battle of Brittain games. As I have said before elsewhere, THREE major German sub releases with no modernization of the Pacific theater (not counting the worthy Pacific Aces mod) was getting tired fast.
-Pv-

[Kaptain Kaos]

I like the idea of playing from some of the other Allied / Axis points of view. I'm also a big fan of IL-2 Sturmovik series. Maybe the head honchos at UBISOFT can get the IL-2 and SH folks at the same table and come up with the kind of "pick your country / pick your weapons platform" career option for SH IV that the IL-2 bubbas did so well.

[AceChilla]

And what about all the Dutch subs in the Pacific! I wanna, I wanna, I Wanna! :-j :rotfl:

[Spraug]

A RN subsim could also include the late war patrols along the Norwegian coast and in the Skagerrak.

Green water patrols along the coast of Norway would be interesting. (And probably demand alot of skill in submerged navigation.)

Why the patrols late in the war, early in the war the Germans were INCREDIBLY lucky during the invasion of Norway that not a single British sub found a mark. If a sub had made contact the damage could have been extrordinary: the attack damage, guiding in allied surface forces, guiding in air attacks. It would have been an extreme outcome, but with a couple of troop transports lost, the whole Norwegian campaign could have been different.

[Sailor Steve]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/old_thread_zpsdacc15f9.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/old_thread_zpsdacc15f9.jpg.html)

I guess you didn't realize that the post you responded to was made eight (8) years ago, or that the person who made it hasn't even looked at this forum in seven years.

Please pay attention to the dates.