This is what I really liked in previous Pacific SubSims

[Drebbel]

What did you really like about:

- Silent Service 2
- Sub Battle Simulator
- Silent Hunter
- Any Pacific SubSim I forgot

[Drebbel]

I really like that one could pickup/land shore parties in SubBattleSimulator

Also the war news in Silent Service 2 was a great feature. Maybe they was it was presented should be radio messages, and not message popping up on the screen.

In SH I really liked the photo recon option.

[Nikita]

I agree with war news in Silent Service 2. I liked historical encounters in SH1 and damage control screen. It's all I can remember of those games. I don't know SubBattleSimulator.

[Zero Niner]

I only played the 1st & 3rd sims (and the original Silent Service as well ;) ).
What I liked about SH was the non-Gato class that one started off with, and the additional missions like lifeguard.

[Overkill]

Silent Service 1 and 2's big map for moving from base to patrol zone.

[Crash Dive]

I always really liked the PPI radar screen in SH1 :ping:

[Safe-Keeper]

Pretty Asian girls :oops: .

Time-specific news are one of those seemingly little things that make all the difference. I mean, after having played "vanilla" SH3 for 100+ patrols I downloaded RuB 1,45, and I was amazed by how much those radio messages from BdU added to the atmosphere. Those month-specific news posted in the loading screen were nice, too.

[Sailor Steve]

Wow, Safe-Keeper; I was using IrishRed's 'RadioLog' mod long before the 'lite' version was put into RUB. With the 'heavy' version you get all those BdU messages plus dozens (hundreds?) more from U-boats sinking ships, ships sending SSS (SOS) signals, requests to return to base, stories of bad torpedoes, and more.

[TwistedFemur]

I really got a kick out of surfaceing 200 yards from a sampan and gunning the bloody bejesus out of it with the 5 inch deck gun


Neil can you change the navy dude avatar? its really creepin me out.

[Clacker]

I really like that one could pickup/land shore parties in SubBattleSimulator



That brings back memories from the late 80's... was that the Mac version?

[scrapser]

My first computer game/sim was Silent Service in 1984. I've played just about every sub sim that's come out with the exception of the Aces Series and Sub Battle Simulator. I'm partial to the Pacific campaign because in my view, it offers a better mix of merchant AND combat surface ships.

Hunting only convoys gets old after a while. What I'd like to see in SH4 is the continued opportunity for task force engagements (hopefully introduced historically and in the right locations) with the Japanese Imperial Navy along with merchant shipping. Another feature of Silent Hunter was the occasional encounter with another submarine. I don't know how often this actually happened but it would be interesting to include the possibility of a dual with an enemy submarine.

Lifeguard patrols, recon, and being placed on station in areas of high combat activity are also on my list. Perhaps a higher level of in patrol mission changes would be good as intel is developed on enemy activity.

scrapser

[Diccus Aurelius]

I would love the ability to make notes on the world map. That is my one request.

[ICBM]

I really got a kick out of surfaceing 200 yards from a sampan and gunning the bloody bejesus out of it with the 5 inch deck gun


Neil can you change the navy dude avatar? its really creepin me out.

BWAHAHAHA yes! I thought I was the only one doing that. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand, did you ever ram a sampan in Silent Hunter? 1200 tons of U.S. steel versus 25 tons of wood, and I died every time.

It ain't fair, I tells ya! :stare:

[Abraham]

On the other hand, did you ever ram a sampan in Silent Hunter? 1200 tons of U.S. steel versus 25 tons of wood, and I died every time.
It ain't fair, I tells ya! :stare:That's what I call unrestricted submarine warfare...

[don1reed]

In addition to the Photo Recon & Lifeguard missions, I would also like to see WW2 Special Ops Msn of INFIL/EXFIL Marines and/or Australian Coast Watchers, i.e., Macon Is. etc.

Post Photo Recon Msn, have a mid-ocean link-up with PBY Catalina to whisk away the photo intel for timely processing. (Calm Wx: the PBY makes water landing. Foul Wx: Flyby grapling hook pickup of photo canister strung between masts.) Perhaps with Far and Near recognition signal[s].

cheers,

[Abraham]

In addition to the Photo Recon & Lifeguard missions, I would also like to see WW2 Special Ops Msn of INFIL/EXFIL Marines and/or Australian Coast Watchers, i.e., Macon Is. etc.

Post Photo Recon Msn, have a mid-ocean link-up with PBY Catalina to whisk away the photo intel for timely processing. (Calm Wx: the PBY makes water landing. Foul Wx: Flyby grapling hook pickup of photo canister strung between masts.) Perhaps with Far and Near recognition signal[s]...That sounds really interesting!
:up:

[Highbury]

I only played the 1st & 3rd sims (and the original Silent Service as well ;) ).
What I liked about SH was the non-Gato class that one started off with, and the additional missions like lifeguard.

Can play a Java web based SS1 at:

everyvideogame.com/play-nes-Silent_Service_(E).htm :D

Just copy/paste it. I didn't link it because the (E) breaks the link on these boards. Sry, I know this doesn't add to the current discussion...

[Joe S]

I have played Up Periscope, Sub Battle Simulator, AOD, SHI, SHII and SHIII. I have had the most fun with Sub Battle Simulator, developed a simple solution for manual fire control and a manual plot, the graphics were crude but acceptable, the sound effects were zero, but the gameplay was great. I think part of the attraction with Sub Battle was that it was a groundbreaker in so many ways, and state of the art at the time. As graphics and sound effects got better, so did our expectations, and usually the result did not quite match up to expectations. I enjoy SHIII a lot, but I have not had the marathon all night missions that I used to play with Sub Battle. Joe S

[Sailor Steve]

I never said what I like most about the games.

Silent Service II: It was THE quality sub sim at the time. Other than that, I like the newer ones better.

Sub Battle Simulator: That I could run a German Type VII or a Gato. Other than that, not much.

Silent Hunter: The careers. The Photo Recon missions (especially when the enemy had air cover-the tension was excruciating). The Lifeguard missions (especially when I was close enough to watch the air attacks). Being able to abandon ship and be captured, rescued or lost at sea.

[Abraham]

I couldn't agree more, Sailor Steve.

[missleman01]

Id say, if you wanted to make a bestseller Pacific Theatre Silent Service simulator take Silent Hunter I and keep as much as you can while combining with some features of the newer games.

Take SHII's map system with unlimited navigation options.

Populate the various patrol zones from SHI (commanders expansion disk included)

Keep all the missions, pilot rescue, photo reconaissance as options in the game.

Keep a similar mixture of target ships from SHI (sampans includeded :))

Of course, be sure to model the American TDC well like SHI did.


Update graphics and add options, but Ill tell you right now, the absolute best thing you can do is preserve the atmopshere that SHI gave its users. It was a classic and any new classic should take lessons from it.

[-Pv-]

What kept me playing all night day after day in Silent Service was the ability to learn the trade/convoy/warship routes and historical engagements, partol those areas and find lots of action if I was in the right place and hadn't given myself away. Once I starting sinking ships, the enemy convoys would stay away from there. SHIII historical map has a similar functionality. I also liked that fuel and weapon load were not the only patrol limiiting features. I could also run out of food, so I had to make the limited time on patrol productive. In other words, I had to stay aggressive.

Like most people I'm impressed with today's 3D textured modeling, but if the core logic/AI of the game forces me to suspend believability, then the graphics won't save the game. SS had the most primitive graphics of any game, but the core logic of the game had me immersed.
-Pv-

[trebby]

I liked the rich variety of subs, from crappy (but very rewarding if succesful) S- class, then every major type up to Tambor class.

My BIG WET DREAM (we are in the water right) is an option to operate DUTCH K-class submarine (DREBBEL help me out on exact type)
They operated althrough the war, through varying types of missions.
Say, throw in 2 dutch types and 2 british (S and T class?)
The US subs have been done to death in the past (and should be done again) this would give the game an enormous extra kick for all subfans.


(Just remember what the russian front did when it was first done in the IL2 flightsim by maddox, after the west front had been modelled to death;
it was a fresh, innovative approach to an old theme!)

Cheers, good luck and big fun on developing!

trebby

[Beery]

Hey, can we include what we liked in previous sub sim mods?

I like SH3 Commander's 'Newsmod' feature, which shows a monthly news report and the Axis territorial gains/losses as the war progresses. Sure, I designed it, but I think such a feature is essential to any sub sim.

Also, someone already mentioned the radiolog. Such things increase immersion greatly.

Realistic 'speed of sound' (as in Average Joe's mod). If I'm far away from an explosion I expect a delay after seeing the explosion until I hear it.

Realistic career length option. It's unrealistic and just plain depressing to be expected to patrol from 1939 to 1945. Real U-boat commanders retired to desk jobs after a few patrols. AoD had this feature, but SH3 doesn't unless the player uses the SH3 Commander mod.

[AG124]

I can tell you something I liked that was in AOD, but was not in any other subsim that I ever played. :stare: Ships with random tonnage. In AOD, if you sank a 'Heavy Merchant,' its tonnage could range anywhere between 2,000 and 5,000 GRT. A 'Heavy Merchant' could even displace more than a 'Medium Merchant', which was good because it is hard to classify such generic ships as this into specific and narrow categories. They would all show up in the log book as 'merchant' anyway, which I also think is a good idea for generic designs.

In SHI, every single tanker you ever sank was either 906 GRT or about 18,500 GRT. SH2 was just as rigid in its tonnages - SHIII has a little bit of hard-coded variation but it is within 10 GRT (worthless).

In SHIV, I hope they bring back the random tonnages. They could have a variance factor included in the .cfg file that could be different for different kinds of ships. For example, a US Liberty class freighter (a specific design) could have no variable tonnage (0% setting?) and always have the same tonnage. But a generic small or coastal merchant which represents no particular class could have a varied amount of random tonnages which could range within a set amount.

Warships would have to have specific tonnages too of course. This was done in AOD anyway. The whole idea if definitely workable.

Does anyone agree with me?

[Beery]

I can tell you something I liked that was in AOD, but was not in any other subsim that I ever played. :stare: Ships with random tonnage.

Another thing that's covered by a mod for SH3 (SH3 Commander does this). I agree. Random tonnages are essential.

[AG124]

Another thing that's covered by a mod for SH3 (SH3 Commander does this).

I know. I just meant stock. :lol:

[Safe-Keeper]

Have an actual ship agenda. For example, a fully-loaded tanker goes from Port A to Port B. Once at Port B, it unloads its oil and thus loses some of its weight (tonnage decreases). It stays in port for 48 hours and then get a new load of gasoline (tonnage gradually increases as the gasoline is pumped on board). Then it leaves for Port C...

You get my point. It'd also be really nice if full ships were lower in the water and slower than empty ships.

[Seminole]

I liked the reverse advantage aspect of playing in the Pacific theater. That is to say starting out as the disadvantaged underdog and seeing your efforts rewarded as the war progresses. In the U-Boat war despite your best efforts you are always, execpt for a few brief exceptions, on a steady decline to the end.

What I would like to see is an ability to play from the Japanese perspective. I know that isn't about to happen but still I can just imagine how much fun it would be to fly a scout plane from a sub looking for targets. :yep:

[-Pv-]

I like the random and loaded-empty (high-low waterline) idea for merchant ships. I've always wanted to see that implimented properly.
I've also wanted to be able to follow a ship to its port where it gets loaded up and joins a convoy. There are several challenges to that which would provide rich entertainment.
-Pv-

[Sailor Steve]

I can tell you something I liked that was in AOD, but was not in any other subsim that I ever played. :stare: Ships with random tonnage.

Another thing that's covered by a mod for SH3 (SH3 Commander does this). I agree. Random tonnages are essential.
It doesn't help now, but there was also a mod for SHI that randomized tonnages. It was from Hawk's Silent Hunter Utilities, and it was called NewMaru. If you're still playing SHI, I can send a copy of it (as well as some others).

[Agrippa]

I agree with whoever said you should keep as much from SH1 as possible and only make upgrades. Of course, over the years a lot has changed and so the game would still be getting a major refit. But I loved SH1, and when I heard that SH3 was still going to model the war in the Atlantic, I was a little bummed out (but not too much, I did buy SH3 when it came out, something I rarely do these days).

One thing I like is to start off my career in a crappy, outdated sub, and I loved it in SH1 when I started out in the Philippines with an S-class sub before getting a truly battle worthy sub.

I like the campaign mode in SH3 where you use renown to buy upgrades or new boats, but I would like a second career mode where you are assigned upgrades or new boats as they would have been in real life. One where you don't say to your superiors "I'd like to trade in my Type IIA and some of my renown for, say, a type VIIC. And make it snappy!", but one where your superiors say "Sorry, we don't have the equipment to upgrade your boat. We'll let you know. Don't call us, we'll call you." Call it "realistic career" or something.

I like what others have mentioned about other missions other than "go to patrol zone. stay 24 hours. come home."

And give me OPTIONS, OPTIONS, and when your done with that, add more OPTIONS. For example, in the realism settings, you have only two choices for damage, realistic and easy. How about something in between? How about giving me settings of "Easy" "Medium" and "Realistic" for realism options?

Someone has mentioned adding the ability to play as a japanese sub, but I doubt that will be possible. Although my dream WWII sub simulation would be the ability to play as a sub commander from Germany (As in SH3), the US, Japan, Britain (particularly the med, raiding Rommel's supply convoys), or Russia (the baltic). That will never happen, but I can still dream.

Just one more thing: Give me a decent manual!!! When I bought Dangerous Waters, I willingly paid an extra 10 dollars for the massive, spiral bound manual. Most manuals these days are really just quick reference guides, they don't tell you everything you need to know. I had to ask a lot of questions on these message boards about little things, stuff that should have been in the manual but wasn't, because there just wasn't room.

[Safe-Keeper]

Just one more thing: Give me a decent manual!!! When I bought Dangerous Waters, I willingly paid an extra 10 dollars for the massive, spiral bound manual. Most manuals these days are really just quick reference guides, they don't tell you everything you need to know. I had to ask a lot of questions on these message boards about little things, stuff that should have been in the manual but wasn't, because there just wasn't room.
Manuals and strategy guides aren't what they used to be:cry:.

When I bought X-Com: UFO Defence and X-Com: Terror from the Deep ages ago, they came with two massive strategy guides from PRIMA, one for each game. Each was about A4-page in paper size, 400+ pages long, and described absolutely everything about the game in great detail. It also had a ton of hints.

I remember my Stars! manual, too. A brick of a book. Same with the manual for Empire Earth.

Nowadays, manuals are reference cards and PRIMA's strategy guides are... Poor manuals. Fair enough for simplistic pick-up-and-frag games such as Halo or Battlefield, but for simulation games they just don't cut it.

So for the love of Neptune, give us good manuals! The Silent Hunter IV manual should contain tonnes of historical information, detailed information on weapons and vessels, historical doctrines, strategy and tactics, organization of the Silent Service, blueprints, and so on. It should also contain entries of every single aspect of the game. Or even better, make it two separate manuals. One for historical details and one for game-play. Firefight (a board game) by SPI was like that: The manual was one booklet and the Reference Manual (with info on doctrines, strategy, organization, and vehicles) was another.

[Agrippa]

I definitely agree about the historical information--I was rather disappointed in the small sections on the subs in the SH3 "Manual." I have IL-2, and I love going into the "view images" section and reading about all the different planes, the design history, and so on. Most sims used to be like that, loads of info on the planes/ships/whatever you get to play as, all in the back of a manual that was worthy of the name. I doubt we'll get that. Frankly, these days you're lucky if the manual isn't just a .pdf file on the CD, such as the manual for Falcon 4: Allied Force. Very inconvenient.

[DS]

I agree with those that said that Silent Hunter 1 had so much to offer, it should be used as the starting base. I just finished another two patrols today in SH1 (I keep an old Win98 PC on hand just to run that game), and I am still blown away by the game play (I put 6 fish into a Japanese Battleship, and he turned tail and ran to beach himself before he sank while the escorts came to pound me - the AI's tactics were consistent with real world tactics).

[RedHammer]

I totally agree with all of this!
I loved to just surface right in front of a Saipan and just blow the heck out of it with my deck gun! Or when it was slight moonlight, and this HUGE Jap convoy.I remember I could actually see the lights of every one of the Jap ships! Only it was 60 of those lights! small fast lights were destroyers, big slow ones were either battleships or Tankers! I used to fire 4 torpedoes, 2 at medium sized ships, then wait for destroyers to come, then i planted 2 torps on 2 destroyers, then i dived to 250 feet, turned off engines, jettisoned debris, waited for 10 mins, silent running, going to about 300 feet, made a 180 degree, got to periscope depth, and if there was any ships there, i planted my rear torp on them. then dived as deep as possible (dependent on the class.) And got the hell out of dodge!

I also remember how my sub reacted on close depth charges! That was one of the most realistic things I ever encountered in SH1! It shaked like hell!

I also loved the very quick rudder reaction, and that i could change direction with the arrows, something of which I really wanted sh2 and sh3 to have.
Only thing i miss about this sub-simulation series is that it should have been possibilities of being both German and US, cuz now there wont be a Sh game about German U-boats for atleast 2 years! Because I want and NEED the VII and IXD! Though I must say do miss the possibility of going into the engine room, going into the torpedo room, the bow and stern quarters! By my knowledge, only Das Boot had those! So now there forexample will be one of those, "owh were gonna win this fight anyways so wel have all the best graphics and kickass stuff which sh2 and sh3 never had!" I bet, and no offense to SH dev`s, that after SH IV its over, and there wont be a submarine simulator where ure German in a VII and go into engine room and torpedo room, while forexample the game about the US uboats! yeah ofcourse theyl have it!
Sorry for saying it like that, but it`s what I think will happen.

And to be honest, I don`t like the Pacific Campaign, I`m the underdog type, I love fighting for a lost cause, just sink as many of the enemy as I can. And the VII and IXD series subs are my favourites! Sure I would love a Pacific sub sim, if it was forexample about 2-3 German U-Boats operating for the Japanese, in the Pacific!


Salute!


RedHammer

[Joe S]

A custom mission builder as in SHI would be a big improvement over what we have now in SHIII Joe S

[Captain Vlad]

Loved the lifeguard and photo recon missions in SH1. I ALWAYS did them, operating under the impression that, you know, I was following orders and stuff. Got into some truly hairy situations doing it, too.

Would love to have to fend off Val's SH3 style while trying to get to a pilot bobbing on his life raft in water too shallow to dive in.

I liked the sampans and other such in SH1. I'd like to see fleshed out minor traffic in SHIV. Always thought you didn't run into enough fishing boats, tugboats, etc on SH3.

I liked being able to take a huge, ungainly Narwhal-class boat to sea in Silent Service II. C'mon, Patrol boats. Screw with me and my 6 inchers why dontcha?:rock:

[don1reed]

One of the things I really enjoyed about the original SH was when you were under a depth charge attack was the serious shaking of the screen when they went off close (((( !!!! ))))

I never understood why it was left out of SH2 and 3???

[Safe-Keeper]

I liked the sampans and other such in SH1. I'd like to see fleshed out minor traffic in SHIV. Always thought you didn't run into enough fishing boats, tugboats, etc on SH3.I agree on that one. Some partisan "fishing boats" would be nice, too. You know, with hidden machine guns, crews with rocket launchers, etc.;)?

I don't know about the Pacific, but I heard about these partisans on the England-Occupied Norway passage that hid heavy machine guns in barrels on the civilian fishing boats they used for their operations. If a German patrol got too close...

Maybe a young female civilian aggressively guarding a golden retriever pup in some Vietnamese river:p?

[theaviator]

I like SH2 multi player so I can battle against real people with DC. You cant beat getting to know your enamy and adjusting your tactics to suit, its like playing chess but much more fun !
It would be great to bring more sims together so you can command a sub or destroyer or even sub hunt with a PBY Catalina.
The more real people in the battle the better for me.

Terry

[Gizzmoe]

Unstickied.