View Full Version : Unique documents of Polish Submarine ORP Orzel at EBAY
My dear friends.
In the very begining of the WW2, Polish submarine ORP "Orzel" escaped from Estonian internment and without maps, food, and water broke German blockade do United Kingdom. It was also ship who discovered German intenttion of invasion of Norway.
When Hitler's forces invaded the Low Countries and France on May 10, 1940, all Allied undersea craft in Norwegian waters, except Orzel, one French and two British boats, were shifted southward in case the Germans decided to support their latest ground offensive with naval units. Sometime during the first week of June, the Polish submarine simply disappeared. Although the cause never was determined, it is believed that Commander Grudzinski and his five officers and 49 crewmen fell victim to a mine in the Skagerrak.
Orzel and her crew were among the first during the conflict to show -- in a most graphic way and against overwhelming odds -- that while the Nazis could conquer a country, they could not conquer the spirit and determination of its people.
On the day of 03 november 2005, sudennly after 65 years been out of any knowledge, the documents of this missing submarine were put on EBAY. Within 3 days of organization we had already 2000 pounds ready to buy this historical documents. Finally we did it on 10 november 2005 20:30 GMT. We have bought one of greatest part of Polish history. We bought part of WW2 history. These documents are going to be exposed in Polish Naval Museum in Gdynia (Gotenhaven).
For all of You i have prepared small scan of few pages. Mostly in polish, but soon i'll add some scans the docs in english.
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel1.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel2.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel3.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel4.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel5.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel6.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel7.jpg
http://www.navy.avx.pl/orzel8.jpg
Wow Grom, old mate,
that is very impressive. If you have further info, please share it. Would be interesting to read about the finding of the documents and what they are about etc.
All I got on Polish e-bay, was a cardboard kit of the Orzel:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/models/images/maly_modelarz/model_orzel_maly_modelarz_01.jpg
I gave it to a Dutch sub enthusiast, because the Orzel also was a Dutch export submarine and I thought he might be happy with it :D
Check out this web page: http://www.orzel.one.pl/
Both me and Grom are members there. All the info you need and want is on that page.
These papers show up kmdr. Kłoczkowski in new light. We have found hand writed court trial protocols 116 pages, lists of crew members nad other documents. The discussion about kmdr. Kłoczkowski is open at Warship Discussion Board under adress:
http://fow.aplus.pl/forum/index.php
This could be one of biggest revelations in our naval history.
These papers show up kmdr. Kłoczkowski in new light. We have found hand writed court trial protocols 116 pages, lists of crew members nad other documents. The discussion about kmdr. Kłoczkowski is open at Warship Discussion Board under adress:
http://fow.aplus.pl/forum/index.php
This could be one of biggest revelations in our naval history.
:huh:
I'll follow the discussion from now, it's been a long time sins I wisited the FOW forum. Thank you, Grom.
Dzieki stary ;)
this is what happened in last few weeks.
http://www.orzel.one.pl/fusion_downloads/DokumentyOrzel_s.jpg
On 01.09.1939 polish submarine "Orzel" left harbour in Gdynia (Gotenahaven). In first two days of war, sub have been patroling her sector under the orders of defensive plan "Worek". On third day of war CO kmdr. Kloczkowski have dicided do dive and lay on the bottom. From this time history of "Orzel" is kind of revelation. What we know fo sure that "Orzel" on 14th.09.1939 sailed into the harbor in Tallin with sick commander, where Estonian authorities have tried to stop her. One story says that CO of submarnie was trader and simulated his sicknes, another says that he was really sick. After one day submarine escaped from Tallin and broke true the blokade to UK. Then after few months was reported missing in North Sea. What these documents show to me is that kmdr.Kloczkowski have been treated as a trader. War Court didnt want to find out the truth, it looks like they out the charges before and commander had his penalty already. It looks also that they based on the testimonys of officers of Orzel and commander of submarine Wilk who were already dead. There could be fact that all the testimonys are fake, or made up.
Największe podziękowania za kupno tych dokumentów należą się tobie, kolego. :up:
Największe podziękowania za kupno tych dokumentów należą się tobie, kolego. :up:
Nie należą się mnie. Należą się Muzeum Marynarki Wojennej w Gdyni. To właśnie dla nich je kupiłem. Przekazanie nastąpi w styczniu.
Największe podziękowania za kupno tych dokumentów należą się tobie, kolego. :up:
Nie należą się mnie. Należą się Muzeum Marynarki Wojennej w Gdyni. To właśnie dla nich je kupiłem. Przekazanie nastąpi w styczniu.
No tak, ale ty przeciesz zaplaciles z wlasnej kieszeni. Jak by nie bylo to sie ciesze ze te dokumenty wroca do Polski. :)
Największe podziękowania za kupno tych dokumentów należą się tobie, kolego. :up:
Nie należą się mnie. Należą się Muzeum Marynarki Wojennej w Gdyni. To właśnie dla nich je kupiłem. Przekazanie nastąpi w styczniu.
No tak, ale ty przeciesz zaplaciles z wlasnej kieszeni. Jak by nie bylo to sie ciesze ze te dokumenty wroca do Polski. :)
Old poles used to say - one swallow does not make a summer, but these papers are something more than martial court protocols. Be on Your watch because soon Polish Naval Forces history can change in oposite way. Official history of Orzel's is breaking up not in one point, is breaking up on whole lane like old wall. From this point after study of the documents i can say that whole case was fake and made up to cover HQ misstakes and stupidity. We already have made group of reserchers with target to check out whole history and facts onboard of polish submarine Orzel between 01.09.1939 - 14.09.1939, and later on during charging her ex CO. I do write it in english because others can understand what is this all about. Wish us good luck my friend as we are going to research the truth and punish myth writers. If we can bring the glory to one innosent man then this is biggest garuation for me as Pole, and as patriot. I leave games and virtual reality of simulations on real history and real live as is more interesting.
The best of luck to you my friend.
If you would need my help please contact me.
I know Swedish, English and Polish :)
Numer na GG: 3470280
Msnm is available under my profile.
For Email send a PM.
/Sebastian
Well actually yes. We are loking for swedish tanker which was crossing Baltic Sea between 04.09-14.09.1939 possible name could begin with letter "B", i am sure ship wasnt german as was menshioned in testimonys that tanker was german with name "Bremen". Such ship never egzisted, ther was ship with this name but it was passanger liner, and didnt operate on Baltic Sea at this time. Disagreement onboard submarine was between CO and other officers. So we are trying every paths in every directions. Finding what possible swedish ship could be there is one of our targets.
Tomorrow I'll see what I can do from here (Sweden).
Doesn't look to bright :( I phoned The National Archives of Sweden today and they told me that it is almost impossible to get that kind of information without knowing the exact name of the ship. They told me to check the "swedish shiplist", they said that I maybe could find something there. The shiplist is baisically a list of all swedish ships, so I will have a lot to look through. :-? The good news are that the national archives are close to my school, so I will try to pay I visit there sometime this week. Maybe, and I say maybe I can find something out. ;)
Doesn't look to bright :( I phoned The National Archives of Sweden today and they told me that it is almost impossible to get that kind of information without knowing the exact name of the ship. They told me to check the "swedish shiplist", they said that I maybe could find something there. The shiplist is baisically a list of all swedish ships, so I will have a lot to look through. :-? The good news are that the national archives are close to my school, so I will try to pay I visit there sometime this week. Maybe, and I say maybe I can find something out. ;)
Lovelly work. This was a tanker, so not all merchantships, but tankers. This shouldnt be to long and to difficult.
Okay, I was in the National Archives today, and after digging through some old books I managed to find this out:
Till 1939, 1 of May Sweden had 37 Tankers of which 8 Tankers had names starting on "B", they where:
"B.T. 1"
"B.T. II"
"B.T. III"
"B.T. IV"
"B.T. V" (Old name Klas)
"Balaklava"
"Bellatrix"
"Björn"
There was one Tanker with name "Soya", her old name was "Bertil" but this was before 1939.
My next goal is to find out where the ships with the names starting on "B" where during the dates you gave me. But that I will have to do later in the week.
How do You explain that B.T ??? We are looking for possible swedish tanker with name close to Bremen/Bergen (first letter might be different)
P.S.
this is proper post :)
The B.T. tankers belonged to a company named Bensintransport AB (fueltransport AB) so there you have the explanation to B.T ("B"ensin"T"ransport).
Here are the names of the remaining Tankers:
"Abadan"
"Algol"
"Ariston"
"Capella"
"Cleopatra"
"Dalnäs"
"Gustav E. Reuter"
"Hamal"
"Kalmia"
"Lars"
"Nerita"
"Pan Gothia"
"Pegasus"
"Pollux"
"Pratt"
"Procyon"
"Rigel"
"Shell 3"
"Shell 6" (Old name Shell 1)
"Shell 7"
"Shell 21"
"Shell 22"
"Soya" (Old name Bertil)
"Soya II"
"Soya III"
"Soya IV"
"Sveaborg"
"Sveadrott"
"W. R. Lundgren" (Could possibly misstaken for Bergen, almost the same ending)
I can find out, if all of these Tankers operated on the Baltic during those days, but it will take some time. I will have to go to the national archives agian.
Take Your time my friend. We are careful while checking everything.
BTW. I have left msg for You on "gg" my number is 3439782.
Great JOB Polak
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