New version of SonarDC_20 Mod

[Jungman]

Here is a new mod of an older mod SonarDC (that version was used in RuB).

This is good for people who are not using RuB and do not want the DD to have SuperSonar but not as nerfed down as in real life Real Uboat version of SonarDC.

SonarDC_20 :sunny:

http://rapidshare.de/files/3064830/SonarDC_20.zip.html

It is not as nerfed to the DD sensors as used in RuB. The Minimum distance to detect is better now at 150 meters instead 200 meters.
Game default is zero range!

This allows the DD to track you better using active sonar to nail your ass.

The DC blast radius is increased from 15 meters to 20 meters for more deadly Depth Charge. Game default is 40 meters!

Enjoy! :arrgh!:

[jasonb885]

How does this relate to your other thread?

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40226

Do I need both that and this fix?

Thanks.

[Jungman]

The SonarDC_20 already has the fix included.

I found the buglet when creating it. I was changing all the sonar minimum active detect range from 200 to 150 meters and saw the value was moved over one hex space too far for one of the sonar values.

SonarDC_20 has the fix in place.

SonarDC_fix is the new "fixed" older original SonarDC file.

I hope this clears that up.

[sdcruz]

what is the maximum range for AI sonar Jungman?

regards
Shelton.

[sdcruz]

and what does minimum distance to detect mean?

Regards
Shelton.

[Jungman]

sdcruz

Here are the maximum active and passive sonar ditances reposted from the other thread "Beyond 8 km":

The AI Sonar has two main sonar values (one for active and passive), then 7 named active sonars. (Plus the 7 passive sonar known as Hydrophones.)

They also have a Sensitivity rating too.

AI_Active_Sonar:

type MAIN max range = 4000 meters.

Type QGAA = 2000
Type QC1A = 1700
Type QCeA = 1300
Type 147A = 2200
Type 144A = 2000
Type 128A = 1500
Type 123A = 1200

AI_Passive_Sonar:

type MAIN max range = 6000 meters

Type QGAP = 8500
Type QCIP = 7500
Type QCEP = 6500
Type 144P = 9500
Type 138P = 8500
Type 128P = 7500
Typr 123P = 6500

Maybe the Main max passive range of 6000 m sets the AI for your Sub crew to 6 km.....and active sonar to 4 km...


"What is minimum Active Soanr distance mean?"

It is the distance to where the DD active pinging sonar loses contact with the submarine when closing in on it to drop a DC.

The closest distance it can maintain a lock on the sub.

In the game the default is zero which is not realistic at all. Plus never lets you get away. Plus the AI sonar 3D model is not correct, going deep does nothing but increase distance some. By making the minimum distance greater than zero, it is more like a round donut (torus) so you can get under and away from a DD attack run.

The older SonarDC was set for 200 meters. It was made for 100% relaism. Many people not using RuB or 100% find the DD are Super lock on, but do not want the full nerf to the DD sonar.

So in this version, I lowered the DD minimum detect range from 200m to 150m so they maintain a lock on you better. And included is an option DC blast range increase from 15m to 20m (the game default is 40meters).

[sdcruz]

Thanks Jungman,

Can you tell us what is the distance for the AI Destroyers to pick you up on sonar - in real life it was something like 2000 metres - what is it in the sim?

Regards
Shelton.

[sdcruz]

Jungman:

"If this does not help enough, then the sensitivity can be toned down, and max range
decreased to allow for escape."

Jungman - i read your readme file - can you PLEASE reduce the max sonar range - I am currently playing and for the last 4+ hours (REALTIME) i cannot escape these destroyers - no matter what I do - I have RuB 1.4 installed.

So please make it realistic - reduce the sonar range to 2000metres please

[jasonb885]

....
So please make it realistic - reduce the sonar range to 2000metres please

How do you know 2k is realistic? Even if it was in real life, the game physics are what matter here.

[jasonb885]

sdcruz
...
The older SonarDC was set for 200 meters. It was made for 100% relaism. Many people not using RuB or 100% find the DD are Super lock on, but do not want the full nerf to the DD sonar.
...

I don't quite follow.

Are you saying 150m is harder or easier than 200m for evasion? Would I install this mod if the version from RuB is too hard or too easy for me?

Thanks.

[Jungman]

sdcruz
Have you tried to download SonarDC_fix Mod? That is the mod which is in RuB 1.4.

You may have a DD in 1942 or 1943 with the type 144A sonar. There was a bug, and its sonar is at the games default of zero distance maintain lock range....which means you are dead (never escape) if even one of them DD are carrying it.

That is how the original game is! Never get away at 100% realism.

Download the fixed SonarDC_fix Mod, open it up and extract the AI_Sensors.dat file. Just place it in the Data/Library where the original is. Now you can escape if that is the problem.

Just reload the savegame, the change fix will go in automatically.

[Jungman]

Jason

Are you saying 150m is harder or easier than 200m for evasion?

150m is harder to evade.

Use this mod if RuB is too easy to evade Destroyers.

Use this mod if you are not using RuB but find the Destroyers too tough and want a toned down default game.

The original game is very dificult at 100% . 0 meter lock (zero). DC blast set for 40 meters.

[jasonb885]

Jason

Are you saying 150m is harder or easier than 200m for evasion?

150m is harder to evade.

So 200m was too easy or is v2.0 just for people that are really bored?

Thanks!

[Jungman]

200m is too easy if you are NOT playing RuB, or at a lower realism level for balance.

SonarDC_20 is aimed at people who are not using RuB, it is too easy, or playing at a lower realism level.

It is just a tougher version of the original SonarDC.

people that are really bored?

:rotfl: You could say that, I am a very good Kaleun now!

[jasonb885]

200m is too easy if you are NOT playing RuB, or at a lower realism level for balance.

SonarDC_20 is aimed at people who are not using RuB, it is too easy, or playing at a lower realism level.

It is just a tougher version of the original SonarDC.

people that are really bored?

:rotfl: You could say that, I am a very good Kaleun now!

Okay, so I should probably include a Recommends: for SonarDC in ImprovedConvoys so people don't get streamrolled.

:up:

[sdcruz]

no it is 1941 and I cannot escape - what values should I look for and change to in the AI_Sensor.dat file to make the distance 2000 metres Jungman - I can do that if you let me know what I need to change.

Thanks
Shelton.

[Jungman]

jasonb885

Actually SonarDC_fix since it contains the fix for the Super Lock On Type 144A bug. :D

[Jungman]

sdcruz

Oh man, that alot of work to type out. It would be faster for me to make a 'quicky' personal fix for yeh.

Your problem is not 2000 meter range -that long range is for passive sonar.

It is the ACTIVE sonar lock you need to reduce. It ranges from 1200 to 2200 meters. So does the sensitivity.

If you are within a few hundred meters, you will never get away. Like in real life, RuB is hard realism and you die.

Quick fix cheat is too just zero out the max range values and mininmum range values. Then you just stopped the active sonar. Next you would need to zero the hydrophones so they cannot hear you.

Here is a No active sonar hack...you willl hear pinging but they cannot see you witrh regular active sonar. They still can pick you up on hydrophones passive sonar though if you are noisy....go slow.

NoActiveSonarCheat just rename it to AI_Sensors.dat and replace your file. Back up original.

http://rapidshare.de/files/3067725/Hack_AI_Sensors.dat.html

Sdcruz, if that doesn't work, then let me know, I will zero out the passive sonar too, making the DD totally blind while you are under water to escape.

Heck, don't be shy, I am sure other people would like to get out of a bad situation through a 'hack'. :yep:

[Pablo]

Jungman,

I found a somewhat authoritative information on UK sonars at the HMCS Haida (http://hmcshaida.ca/) site and at an affiliated research paper (http://www.jproc.ca/sari/). HMCS Haida was a Tribal-class destroyer commissioned in 1943.

Based on what I found here, a minimum active sonar range of 200m (or even 150m) seems awfully generous - you would have to be pretty deep (>400m) to have a minimum detection distance of 150m once the Allies start deploying "Q" class sonars, with the ability to ping 70 degrees from horizontal, starting in 1942; starting in 1943, the minimum detection distance would be "0" once "Sword" (type 147B) sonars were deployed, since they apparently could look behind and beneath the escort.

Do you know if the minimum detection distance a fixed value, or does it change with sonar type and range as in real life?

Pablo

[sdcruz]

OK thanks - i am in the middle of a patrol (being trying to evade) Can i install it now or do i need to go back t base?

Regards
Shelton.

[jasonb885]

jasonb885

Actually SonarDC_fix since it contains the fix for the Super Lock On Type 144A bug. :D

Ah, okay. So you don't need to appy the fix to the old version, but rather the fix includes the whole deal?

Thanks!

:up:

[sdcruz]

Jungman

What does the max range mean for the sonars? Does that mean they can still pick you up at 4000 metres?

Regards
Shelton.

[sdcruz]

Maybe the Main max passive range of 6000 m sets the AI for your Sub crew to 6 km.....and active sonar to 4 km...

Jungman

I dont think thats the case since this is the AI Sensors file - but you have brought up a very valid point - it just does not make sense. :hmm:

Regards
Shelton.

[sdcruz]

Pablo:

Type 123 - min range = 200 metres
Type 147A - min rng = 200 metres
Type 144A - min range=200 metres

so it looks like they dont change! :(

[Wiesel1971]

very good !!! super asdic sound !!! :up:

[sdcruz]

Jungman

Thanks so much for the data above about the ranges on the sonars - I have changed the max active sonar range from 4000 to 2000 and I seemed to have escaped - I didnt change anything else.

Let you know later with more infor.

Regards
Shelton.

[Schultzy]

Thx Jungman! :)

[StaplerFahrer]

Question: Shouldn't early war sonar have a longer range, but a much longer minimum range as well because of the shallow angle of the beam? From what I understand, later war ASDIC sacrificed range for "look-down" capability against deep diving subs.

[R48]

Thanks!

[Jungman]

The in game model of the sonar is completely wrong. I am trying to simulate real life action with a torus model. I read a lot of struff on sonar, I am stuck with this simple sonar model.

More later.

[Pablo]

Question: Shouldn't early war sonar have a longer range, but a much longer minimum range as well because of the shallow angle of the beam? From what I understand, later war ASDIC sacrificed range for "look-down" capability against deep diving subs.

In Real Life, the minimum range was a function of U-boat depth and the angle of escort sonar coverage from horizontal: the deeper the submarine, the greater the minimum range, so as a U-boat commander you had real incentive to dive deep as quickly as possible; unfortunately, "minimum range" in the game is a constant.

Late war destroyers didn't really sacrifice sonar coverage- they just added deeper-looking systems (e.g., "Q" augmentation and Type 147) to the existing "flashlight beam" systems.

I suggest looking up the following sites for more information: HMCS Haida (http://hmcshaida.ca/) site; a research paper (http://www.jproc.ca/sari/) on the radar and sonar sensors of a Tribal-class destroyer; and Destroyer Escort Central (http://www.de220.com).

Pablo

[Kpt-Wolf]

With which prog did u edieted the sim file ??
thx
wolf

[cothyso]

can I also have this please?

http://rapidshare.de/files/3067725/Hack_AI_Sensors.dat.html

thanks!