Dev Team, Silent Hunter 4

[Dogsbd]

- Choose to be a Japanese ace and try to find the Indianapolis before it delivers the A-bomb....


I understand how someone unaffected by that tragedy might feel as you do but as my family suffered that loss in a personal way I don't find the above scenario at all desirable.

http://members.tripod.com/IndyMaru/IndyMaru.html

[CCIP]

I think we all have respect for the men who perished on the Indianapolis, but let's not forget it's a game - and any realistic scenario is and should be plausible.

If I had concerns of this type, I would never play a German or Finnish unit in World War II games. But here I am in SHIII... :hmm:

[Dogsbd]

I think we all have respect for the men who perished on the Indianapolis, but let's not forget it's a game - and any realistic scenario is and should be plausible.

If I had concerns of this type, I would never play a German or Finnish unit in World War II games. But here I am in SHIII... :hmm:

I know, I know... :)

I am just a bit sensitive on the subject, and I understand why others might not be.

But back to the orginal post about a "Japanese Submarine Ace"... I didn't think there was such a thing ;)

But seriously, given the poor showing of the IJN sub fleet in WWII I doubt playing as a Japanese sub commander in SHIV would be a lot of fun if it were simmed "historically correct".

[CCIP]

Well, I think it might be the "Type XXI uber-boat syndrome" we're dealing with here :)

People are fascinated with the size of the I-400, and/or the potential of the famous Long Lance torpedoes (which were ways ahead of anything either the Allies or the Germans had at the time). But they never achieved much of anything. Much like the all-too-late Type XXI.

Ubi, being aware of this tendency, might well be tempted to include some of those "uber" things that fascinate some people so much :hmm:

[finchOU]

Im in the "Fix SH3 first crowd".....though the Pacific theater seems like the perfect add on to complete the sim.....as it is....I still see too much wrong with SH3 to jump on a new game bandwagon...which why I hope it is an add on/expansion pack/major patch....but that is me

[Dogsbd]

I wouldn't mind the Pacific Theater being as an add-on to SHIII, or even like UBI did Pacific Fighters which could be installed as an expansion to IL2FB or as a stand alone.


But fans of PTO Sub sims have been waiting a looooooooong time for anything that would interest us.

[Drebbel]

But fans of PTO Sub sims have been waiting a looooooooong time for anything that would interest us.

PTO ??? :-?

- - - some time later - - -

Ah, got it.

• Pacific Theater of Operations

The Pacific Theater of Operations (PTO) is the term used in the United States for all military activity in the Pacific Ocean and the countries bordering it, during World War II.

[Marhkimov]

I don't want to look too far ahead into the future, because I am still very much into SH3, but I am looking forward to joining the PTO.

I want to have a Balao... ANd damnit, I want to be an American! :stare:

[Wulfmann]

I want I want I want.

Being realistic to what you might get would make a Dutch sub or an Italian sub unlikely.

Put yourself in the Dev shoes and ask what would have wide appeal not what one guy might like. They must decide what will work well and have broad appeal to be profitable.
Darn if only we made the O21, this thing would have sold much better!
Not likely mate!

While stereo typing Italian and French as cowards does not represent the majority of good men in those navies it is how history recalls them fair or not and that makes them of little interest to 99.99% of potential feed my children, customers.
As Good as the Royal Navy was (is!) submarines in the Atlantic are called U-baots and are for Germans, perception is what people buy not your (or my) form of reality. Those British guys are so polite, are you sure they are not gay?

People prefer playing Germans or Americans more than any other nationality!
Why? (Can’t wait to hear all the nationalistic whining about this!)
The Germans are the ultimate bad guy, the Darth Vader syndrome. The guys you love to hate and hate to love. (and the Kriegsmarine was considered an honorable enemy to alleviate guilt a bit!)
As for good guys, the yanks are smart mouthed misfits that are not wearing white hats but coming to kick your butt, the Hans Solo syndrome.

So, when you sit down and say, how can we do this and pay the bills you do the Germans in the Atlantic and the Americans in the Pacific. That is where the majority of interest will be.

So tell me I am completely wrong and it is a Dutch campaign in the Pacific that would be a bigger draw or an Italian one in the Atlantic. What next, the Greeks should be an add on for the Med? What no sub named the Papamicolis? How can SH4 succeed?

Sorry, but I just love these narrow I wants that have no chance of doing anything but reducing profitability and reducing future simulations if ever considered!

I do hope they update SH3 as part of SH4, which would be a big draw giving cause for those not interested in the Pacific to buy it anyway.
I agree the fact the Atlantic starts easy and gets progressively harder makes for a perfect game scenario.
Perhaps the US campaign should be 1942-43 before the slaughter begins in 44 but it will be a challenge to buck history and make it harder as one plays.
I do hope they do a Japanese campaign using the smaller boats as a choice. Those big ones you all are longing for handles poorly, dove very slowly and were weak structurally compared to what you are use to in the Atlantic. You will think a Type IX is a sports car when you get into an I–boat. You will have little chance against mediocre AS craft because the boats just don’t turn well.

There is the mod makers to improve things (again) once SH4 is released and the fact they are doing one is a super Christmas gift, IMO

Wulfmann

[Drebbel]

So tell me I am completely wrong and it is a Dutch campaign in the Pacific

Yes, you wrong. Dutch subs would definately make the sim more appealing. :P

And also remember that most Dutch subs in PTO where under Allied/American operational command, so they could fit in very well in the dynamic campaign the dev-team is gonna design anyway.

They should just do some tweaks that ensure that the skippers on the Dutch boats generally have Australian home ports (like Freemantle) and do more than average patrolling/secret ops in the Dutch East Indies compared to the US subs.

So actually the only time consuming thing the dev-team has to do is make a model of a Dutch sub. That is all.

Last but not least: The Dutch subs had many really unique features --like snorts (even before the Germans) and tubes that fire sideways-- which would make every subsimmer go wild :o

:D

[CCIP]

Hey, I'll take a boat with some sideways snorts :D

Seriously though, I wish they'd take a cue from the "Forgotten Battles" approach and let us sail some of the lesser-known forces :)

[Marhkimov]

In that case, Italy would first come to mind... Nobody knows a dang thing about Italian subs... Not even the Italians! :lol:

That would make for a perfect unknown theater, similar to IL2 and Russia.

[donut]

"Silent Hunter, by SSI. One of my readers says, "Submarines during World War 2 became an important weapon of the combatants. Silent Hunter by SSI is perhaps the best made simulation to date of sub warfare. The game provides single or historical scenarios, along with a campaign game covering the entire Pacific War. All realism settings can be changed by the player to suit his or her own playing style. Also, a sub tour and interviews with William "Bud" Gruner, commander of the U.S.S. Skate during World War II are provided.

Patrol zones range across the whole area of the theater of operations. Nine sub types are yours to command, along with direct or auto control of the deck gun and computer controlled AA guns. Four torpedo types and new technology appear at the appropriate times in the campaign game. In additon to the hunting of enemy ships, photo recon and lifeguard duty are also part of the experience. As of this writing, I have been through several campaigns and have so far counted 47 seperate ship types. Of that 47, there were 9 carrier types, 5 battleship types, 5 cruiser types, 5 light cruiser types, 10 destroyer types, 2 patrol craft types, 1 sub type, 9 freighter types (cargo to troops) and 1 sampan type. One patrol disk has been released, adding new patrol zones. Another is promised in the near future.

From my perspective as a gamer, the graphics are excellent, the ship types various enough so as not to get boring and the AI smart enough to take appropriate action. The control of the realism settings is a big plus. The patrol disk concept is a good way to add to an already great game. There has been a patch or two released that have made the game one of the most stable I've ever seen. I've played all the others and this game is the only one which has kept my interest. Give it a try, you won't be sorry.

The game requires at least a 486DX/66 or better; with 8 megs ram, a 1 Mb SVGA graphics card, a double speed cd-rom drive and a mouse. On a P90 with 16 megs ram, it runs like a dream." My desire for SHIV.This observation is nearly 10 years old. SHIV,need only be an enhancement,to be the worlds best seller IMHO. :/\rlz:

[Marhkimov]

The game requires at least a 486DX/66 or better; with 8 megs ram, a 1 Mb SVGA graphics card, a double speed cd-rom drive and a mouse. On a P90 with 16 megs ram, it runs like a dream. My desire for SHIV.

When will the day be, that we get computers like this... :hmm:

[donut]

I quoted those specs,because SHIII, is such a hog.Nothing new,just enhancement to keep developers job securty.Specs are 10years old.

[CCIP]

Aw come on, SHIII is a pretty mild game as far as system requirements go, even among simulators. I find that it runs pretty swell even on my moderately crappy system which cost me about $1,000 two years ago :hmm:

[CB..]

Those British guys are so polite, are you sure they are not gay?



i beg your pardon? :hmm: ;)

of for dang's sake UBI just release the bl**dy sdk and modelling tools and we'll make the dang thing---going thru all these wish lists drive you mad--

i bet they'd kill for the sort of sales figures and community interest involvement aroused by MSN's flight sim/ combat flight sim franchise--
well IMO the only thing stopping the increase in sales and exspansion of our niche subsim market is the games manufactures them selves--

release the modelling/landscape/physics/AI editing tools and sdks
and watch what happens---

[donut]

Why must we/I,in an effort to be a good stewards,be forced to spend for enhancement in games.In the way of a new box.when older,good games,played on less.I know support developers,ie.job securty.

[Wulfmann]

So tell me I am completely wrong and it is a Dutch campaign in the PacificYes, you wrong. Dutch subs would definately make the sim more appealing. :P :D

Well that should settle it. What people have been clamoring for all these years and have been wrongly ignored, a Dutch campaign! yes, that is where the money lies and all I ever hear about is why can't I be a Dutchman, that is what we all want to be in a wargame!!! :rotfl: Look how far I had to scrooll to get past all the "Amens" for a Dutch campaign. (Although I am wierd enough to be happy to have one myself)

Do you remember the movie (Historically very inaccurate) Bridge on the River Kwai?
Well, beside that fact the railroad does not cross that river most of the POWs were Dutch, most gravestones are Dutch ( I did a travel story ((Oriental Express))on this and can state this personally) and yet that film was an all British affair (perhaps the Dutch were grateful to be left out of that fantasy!)

I realize there are small groups that would like a Polish sub campaign or maybe a French combat flight sim but my point was if you were a dev and you financial existance depended on your choices you would quickly dismiss the Dutch campaign but ask for some Dutch hot cocoa on a winter's day because their cocoa is great!!!:rock:

Wulfmann

[Drebbel]

So tell me I am completely wrong and it is a Dutch campaign in the PacificYes, you wrong. Dutch subs would definately make the sim more appealing. :P :D

Well that should settle it. What people have been clamoring for all these years and have been wrongly ignored, a Dutch campaign! yes, that is where the money lies and all I ever hear about is why can't I be a Dutchman, that is what we all want to be in a wargame!!! :rotfl:

Hmm, guess you forgot to read the rest of my post. :-? Check below quote.

And also remember that most Dutch subs in PTO where under Allied/American operational command, so they could fit in very well in the dynamic campaign the dev-team is gonna design anyway.

There is NO, I repeat NO need for a Dutch campaign ! With minor tweaks it can easily be incorpatated in the Allied (read USN) campaign. Check below quote for the tweaks I mentioned.

They should just do some tweaks that ensure that the skippers on the Dutch boats generally have Australian home ports (like Freemantle) and do more than average patrolling/secret ops in the Dutch East Indies compared to the US subs.

I realize there are small groups that would like a Polish sub campaign or maybe a French combat flight sim but my point was if you were a dev and you financial existance depended on your choices you would quickly dismiss the Dutch campaign but ask for some Dutch hot cocoa on a winter's day because their cocoa is great!!!:rock:

Again, I read nowhere that anyone wants a special Dutch campaign, or did I miss something ?

:rock:

[Wulfmann]

I am just teasing you because my point all along was thinking what a dev would find appealing to a wide audience. and I just do not believe adding "And now with the long desired Dutch submarine everyone's been waiting for" to the box will sell more than an extra dozen in Holland (somewhere outside of Amersterdam as they are too buzzed to know there was ever a war) .
You just add to my point of "I want" in a very narrow area that has virtually no chance of happening.
Do you really think someone will build an entire model of a Dutch Sub?
That would be one less US or Jap sub.
I don't think we will have to worry about the Dutch campaign.
Have you ever had Van Houten cocoa, it is superb! Droeste is also good. That is the Dutch I like and have a chance of getting too!

Wulfmann

[Drebbel]

Do you really think someone will build an entire model of a Dutch Sub?

They dev-team DID do that for SHII !!

That would be one less US or Jap sub.

Why ?

Have you ever had Van Houten cocoa, it is superb! Droeste is also good.

:up:

[Dogsbd]

I would be perfectly happy if the dev team just made it possible fro a third party to add a Dutch sub, or a French sub, or an Itailian sub....

The dev team wouldn't have to "waste" a minute doing it themselves, but within a month or so of release there would be Dutch, French and Itailian subs available from some enthusiast.

[Marhkimov]

I agree, make SHIV even more open structured than SHIII.

Our crop of modders could probably make better subs than ubi, anyways.

[Wulfmann]

I agree, make SHIV even more open structured than SHIII. Our crop of modders could probably make better subs than ubi, anyways.

I do agree but to better have a chance at we want perhaps you should edit that to say. "While I am sure we could never match the wondrous modeling of the Devs a lesser model that allows us to play a Dutch (Polish, Argentine, Thai, Norweigian etc) would be nice":rotfl:

Not that devs have egos but they ahve egos!. Seriously, the point we need to impress is the extra life and longer return possibilities an open game has.

Combat Flight Simulator 3 has just had a new freeware WWI (OFF)sim added. One must have CFS3 installed to use this game. It already had a Korean War version released and will have a Mediterranean version next year.
Open architecture is dividends down the road for no work at all.
And, SH3 is similar to being semi open to such major addons if the devs realize they will be compensated long after the fact.

Wulfmann

PS here is the link to the OFF, Over Flanders Fields, forum for anyone interested in fighting with or against the Red Barron!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=8

[Marhkimov]

I have CFS3 but haven't downloaded OFF yet.

I uninstalled CFS3 a long time ago, and haven't gotten around to re-installing it again... OFF sure does look good, though...

[CptGrayWolf]

CFS3...How the heck did you get rid of the stuttering?
That's the MAJOR reason why I'm only playing IL2 right now.

[Marhkimov]

lol, stuttering, who said anything about rid of it? :lol:

I also headed straight for Sturmovik.

[CptGrayWolf]

lol, stuttering, who said anything about rid of it? :lol:

I also headed straight for Sturmovik.

Awww! I thought I was going to get a magic solution :cry:

[Marhkimov]

Well, its been a long long LONG time since I've played CFS3. I've gotten a new computer since then, so maybe the stuttering won't happen anymore...

[Wulfmann]

CFS3 requires much less PC than SH3. There are certainly many tweaks and in fact it is as stock a total waste of time without you modding it so nothing but the engine and a few things needed are left.

IL-2 is certainly user friendly for the average person but anyone here should know enough about modding to make CFS3 far better than IL-2 has a possibility to ne. But, it is certainly a ton of work to do so.

When MAW is released the flight models will be way ahead of anything done in any flight sim yet. Having the stick 2 patched CFS3 is all that will be needed to add that but it will be huge and either a many CD swap or a DVD or choice.
It has not reached beta stage in the below screen

Wulfmann

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Wulfmann/P403raaf-5.jpg

[Gizzmoe]

Guys, if you want to continue to talk about CFS3 then please do that in the "Other Games" forum. Thanks! ;)

[Drebbel]

Guys, if you want to continue to talk about CFS3 then please do that in the "Other Games" forum. Thanks! ;)

Hahah, thread hi-jacking is great. But the moderators might feel it neccessary to split the CFS3 posts into a new thread. Yep, there is an option to do that.

[Marhkimov]

ah, just leave it... It's not like we have much more CFS3 to talk about... :rotfl:

[Trout]

Anyone who has read books about life in a submarine knows that the managment of crew members, putting togtether the right team of people in every division of the boat, choosing leaders, looking after morale ect. is a BIG part of the captains job.

I think that there ARE ways to make this a fun (but optional) part of a sub sim. What you need to do is put visible and audible clues throughout the boat that the captain can interpret as signs of morale and crew efficiency. THis also creates a MAJOR reason to model the WHOLE 3d interior and populate it with lifelike crewmen.

SH3 really only scratches the surface of what you can gain in terms of gameplay and sensory immersion from modeling the sub interior.

Trout

[Torplexed]

I agree the crew modelling in SH3 was never really carried to full execution. But at least they made the first attempt at it for a WW2 sub sim. I don't quite feel like I'm controlling an RC sub like I did in SH2.

Speaking of crews I was thinking it would be neat feature if you could drill your crew for greater efficiency. So if you did test dives on your way to your patrol area it would pay off in cutting a few seconds from your dive time. Too many drills and it starts to cut into crew morale. Maybe after a certain amount of time in port the crew's proficiency begins to fall off so you have to initiate the drill cycle again on your next patrol.

Just something to fill those empty hours at low time compression. :cool:

[Sir Big Jugs]

Marhkimov, last thing bout' CFS3.

Read this:

http://forums.netwings.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4432

Guess who Hurricane_320 is!

[Sir Big Jugs]

MAW:

http://www.medairwar.com/scenery/Impressions/bf110e_desertvillage.jpg
http://www.medairwar.com/new.html


OFF:

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5247/offwp24ra7as.jpg
http://off.oldbrowndog.net/index.htm

Sorry Gizzmoe! These were the last links! I promise!

[tautug]

In my original post, I wished for between battle things to do in SHIV, primarily for realism but also to not sit and watch a screen for so long.

There should be options once you set a course, like setting watch assignments. Depending on time of day, sitting in the officers mess to go over tactics with XO, etc. An example is you call a meeting in the mess, your officers arrive. A list of strategic options comes up such as setting speed, ride submerged during day, schedule a practice alarm dive, give XO the helm, load a specific configuration of torpedoes, possible radio messages, etc.. Im sure they could find more interesting things, I am just giving a concept.

After those options are set, the captain can retire to his cabin, shower up, go to bed and give command not to disturb for X hours, unleess a sighting or urgent message or problem arises. Essentially you could "sleep" and boat will transition X hours without delay, unless a sighting, etc. is made.

[tautug]

In my original post, I wished for between battle things to do in SHIV, primarily for realism but also to not sit and watch a screen for so long.

There should be options once you set a course, like setting watch assignments. Depending on time of day, sitting in the officers mess to go over tactics with XO, etc. An example is you call a meeting in the mess, your officers arrive. A list of strategic options comes up such as setting speed, ride submerged during day, schedule a practice alarm dive, give XO the helm, load a specific configuration of torpedoes, possible radio messages, etc.. Im sure they could find more interesting things, I am just giving a concept.

After those options are set, the captain can retire to his cabin, shower up, go to bed and give command not to disturb for X hours, unleess a sighting or urgent message or problem arises. Essentially you could "sleep" and boat will transition X hours without delay, unless a sighting, etc. is made.

[cmdrk]

tautog,

your post ties into this thread.
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50407

I would like the idea.