The mystery of the moving Deckgun [Archive]

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Domanating

03-24-14, 07:15 PM

Hello there, gents.

So I'm a user of TMO+RSRDC and I'm well aware of the famous deckgun and crew disappearing when you change its placement during the campaign.

Like many of you, I like having the gun placed on the bow. When I start the campaign with a S-42 Sub everything's peachy.

When I'm awarded the 1st new sub, the gun moves to the stern position without my permission. I tried putting it on the bow again but as predicted, the crew slots and gun are lost when doing so.

the TMO readme says that the deck gun will stay on same position from start to end of the campaign. Doesn't it have account of the new subs?

Domanating

03-26-14, 10:54 AM

Bump

At least a "I don't know" reply is more pleasing than complete silence

Admiral Halsey

03-26-14, 11:01 AM

Well i've never encountered this in all my time playing TMO so I have no clue as to what''s causing this.

Sniper297

03-26-14, 03:17 PM

Okay, I don't know. You want everyone to respond and say that you'll have to sift through several thousand "I don't know" responses to find the one response that solves the problem, do you want spam spam and more spam with that? :woot:

I don't play TMO or RSRDC or RFB, so I have no clue if they did anything about the bug in any of those.

I did however come up with a workaround for the stock game, change the default position from stern to bow.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2184018&postcount=22

I did upload it;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4364

But I have no idea if it's compatible with TMO RSRDC RFB OM or WTF mods. If not then read the linked post #22, which gives a step by step how to mod any boat for a default bow deck gun.

Lokisaga

03-26-14, 04:07 PM

the TMO readme says that the deck gun will stay on same position from start to end of the campaign. Doesn't it have account of the new subs?

Hello,
Based on my experiences with deck guns and TMO that part of the manual means that you shouldn't change the default deck gun placement on your boat. Wherever the deck gun is when you get a new boat should be where it stays. The game "remembers" gun placement for each boat separately. I guess BuShips is very sensitive about that issue. I know a lot of people have an ingrained dislike of the stern deck gun, but it's really not that hard to use. I've also heard that you should never have crew in the deck or anti-aircraft gun slots if you plan on doing any modifications, or when the game decides to modify you conning tower.

I hope that helps.

Domanating

03-27-14, 11:12 AM

Ok so I make breakthrough. If I start campaigns with Porpoise or later subs the deck gun stays where it's supposed to when I get newer ships.
The situation occurs only when upgrading from S-18/42 to Porpoise or later subs. I have no idea why.

Okay, I don't know. You want everyone to respond and say that you'll have to sift through several thousand "I don't know" responses to find the one response that solves the problem, do you want spam spam and more spam with that? :woot:

I don't play TMO or RSRDC or RFB, so I have no clue if they did anything about the bug in any of those.

I did however come up with a workaround for the stock game, change the default position from stern to bow.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2184018&postcount=22

I did upload it;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4364

But I have no idea if it's compatible with TMO RSRDC RFB OM or WTF mods. If not then read the linked post #22, which gives a step by step how to mod any boat for a default bow deck gun.

I did find and try your mod and also tried manually but in both cases the result was no deck gun at all. From campaigns to war patrols, quick missions and tutorials, all made me start without deck gun. I had no crew slots for it and there were never deckguns to "purchase" in campaign mode.

Sniper297

03-27-14, 02:45 PM

Hmmm. Don't have RSRDC but I do have a copy of the TMO mod, took a look at the NSS_Porpoise.upc file;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGStern
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

"Default1" is the automatic choice when starting a new career or changing subs, that will default to stern gun since it's first. Change like this;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGStern

And it doesn't matter if I start a new career with a Porpoise or upgrade from an S boat to a Porpoise, I get a bow gun by default. Might depend on the year it's upgraded, that's hard to test since you have to play a career for years with random times for new construction offers. Possibly changing both to bow;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

Would fix that problem if it is a problem. SH4 programming is like a woman, you have to limit the choices or they'll spend the whole day shopping. If the game can only choose between Bow and Bow then it has no excuse for screwing it up.

Domanating

03-27-14, 07:10 PM

Sniper297

03-27-14, 09:27 PM

I ran a couple tests with the stock game, starting Asiatic careers with an S-18 then getting the "new construction" offer, both times it was a Porpoise which did default to bow gun.

Since I've never fiddled with RSRDC or RFB I can only speculate about that, but I would GUESS (theory only, no evidence to support it) that one of these crewmember slots modifications with the special abilities hacks might be a factor. Or might not.

Looking at the file sizes for my mod of NSS_Porpoise.upc and the one from TMO, I note that mine is 65,763 bytes and the TMO is 65,957 bytes. In notepad with status bar enabled mine shows 2029 lines, TMO has 2032 which would suggest three lines of data have been added someplace. Obviously it would take a while to find out where and what. And if RSRDC has some bug in it elsewhere causing this I have no way to test that. What you could try is activate TMO and RSRDC, then my mod last, overwriting whatever changes the other two made to the UPC files. If there are special crewmen abilities or something in one of those you would lose them, but at least you'd be guaranteed a bow deck gun.

Domanating

03-28-14, 02:18 PM

What you could try is activate TMO and RSRDC, then my mod last, overwriting whatever changes the other two made to the UPC files.

That's the 1st thing I did when I found your mod a couple weeks ago. The result as stated before, deck guns just vanish.
This issue is giving me a headache...
I think I'll reinstall the game. Usually that works as if it was magic.

Sniper297

03-28-14, 03:17 PM

I tried TMO when it first came out, decided it was as much fun as listening to a class full of second graders trying to play Honky-Tonk Women on recorders. :/\\!! So I went back to stock game with Webster's GFO mod, and DID have occasions where the deck gun slots vanished into the 5th dimension after changing from stern to bow with the stock game. After that I started every career by moving the gunners up into the damage control section, leaving the deck gun slots empty, then changed to a bow deck gun before moving the gunners back into the slots. Get a new sub repeat same procedure, making sure I had a bow deck gun before leaving the office. Doing it that way I never saw the problem again, but always always change to bow deck gun at the very start of a career like it was a holy ritual.

I never tried RSRDC or any mod with super crewmen, but I have read some posts here and there discussing the addition of extra crew slots and special abilities. The first thought that struck me was that unless that's done just right it could cause crew slot glitches in unexpected sections at random times. Dunno which mods have them and which don't, but that would be the first place I'd look for this recent flood of disappearing deck guns.

mobucks

03-28-14, 04:25 PM

Obviously it would take a while to find out where and what.

The free program WinMerge would make this operation completely painless. It basically opens two text files and compares them line by line. It's even more sophisticated than that in that if file A has a large block of information that file B doesn't, it won't compare line by line anymore until the large block of lines in file A completes.

Very handy tool for modding and ninjaing parts of mods you want into a mini mod of your own.

Domanating

03-30-14, 06:03 AM

Turns out I can do magic tricks.
The reinstallation fixed the deck guns. Bow guns stay on the bow from S types to later versions with TMO and RSRDC enabled.
I'll remember to reinstall before asking questions

Cheers to everyone that had the patience and availability to help :salute:

Sniper297

03-30-14, 11:06 PM

I'd advise making a zipped backup copy of the entire folder now, before you have future problems. Saves all the aggravation of uninstalling and reinstalling when you can just delete the folder, unzip the backup, and be back to the good starting point. :salute:

Havan_IronOak

07-24-15, 01:36 AM

One F Jef (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd_ROizZ_2A63WwnuDmLZGg) has a you-tube video series in which he swaps out his rear-facing deck gun for a front mounted one. NO MODS AT ALL (April 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Z3tnoIZig&list=PL51F4D1180295B304&index=1

He gets a new sub in Pearl after starting in the Asiatic fleet. He runs one patrol just fine then gets notified that they removed something from his sub (farings or some such) Turns out that after that he's missing his deck gun crew. The gun's still there, it just really really slow to load (all by himself)

aanker

07-24-15, 12:45 PM

There is also a do it yourself fix (edit) that Coletrains posted that I still use from time to time if this happens. Historically, it is my understanding that the Captain would select the fore, or aft mount, (or both) that he preferred.

Basically in this edit you move the crew slots in activeuserplayerunit.upc for the Gun(s) to repair the crew slots that vanished, or the gun that disappeared, etc.

ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc in your saved games:

Example:
Documents\SH4\Data\cfg\SaveGames\0000000n\ActiveUs erPlayerUnits.upc ...... where 'n' is the number of your most recent Saved Game file ( \0000000n ) in My Documents that you made in port that has the problem of no crew slots, or any mix-up with your deck guns for that matter.

The upc file should be opened with a Plain Text editor like Notepad to make the fix. Make a backup of the file before you edit it just to be safe.

Post 14 here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121472

I had the same problem when ever I tried to change the gun type within a career. I am playing with v1.2 knowing that I always have to set my gun type when offered a new bot. Unfortunately with the new Balao class I installed a bow gun instead of stern (I always used stern since I need the the gun only if i cant dive due to hull damage and a destroyer is following me).

Solution (not so easy) to replace a Bow deck gun with a Stern deck gun (2 crewmen):
all entrances are in the file of your savegame:
-ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc (backup it!)

-Search for the compartments 7 (Stern gun) and 8 (Bow gun)
they start with "UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7"

-Get a feeling of the file structure and write it down (compare sections of savegames with Stern and Bow type gun for instance and see differences)

-do not change "UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7/8"

-now exchange the weapon entrances:
for instance replace "[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1]" (which means nothing is installed at stern)
with all sub categories beginning with "[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]" to "[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 2.CrewMember.Rank.CrewMember3D]"

-you can simply cut/copy and paste.

-now change the numbers "7" to "8" and "8" to "7" of the moved categories

Some small changes left:
-in "[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.WeaponSlot 1]" enter the gun type:

-"IDLinkWeaponLoaded=x", x=gun type for me it was 4in50calUS

-search in compartments 7 and 8 for (multiple entries) :
"ID=CrewMemberSlot_x", x should be DGun for Stern and DGgun2 for Bow (note that there is another extension C1 and L for crew and leader which you dont need to change like DGun2L)

-search for "WatchCrewMemberSlot3D=WM2@slot_M0x", x=1 for Bow, and x=2 for Stern (if you don't adjust this you have a shooting non visible gun crew)

-search for "CurrentUpgradePack=Upack4in50calDGBow" and change this to "CurrentUpgradePack=Upack4in50calDGStern" (this is only for the description in the docks)
------
-------------------------------------------- also from:
Post 10 here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121460

neumanf15 wrote:
I haven't gotten a chance to test in combat, but it seems to be good to go when I man the deck guns, so here's my input on this:

You CAN get both deck guns manned by AI, IF you are willing to do a little editing in your save game...

I have that nasty bug that won't let you switch deck gun positions without losing all deck gun crew positions. My deck gun was set to fore before I got the dual guns. It will only let me control the fore gun myself and my crew would only man the fore gun... SOOOO I had to go in and edit my save game per Coletrains (post #14) in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121472

I switched my crew to the Aft Gun Deck and it was working fine. I could do what you were talking about AirborneTD - I man Fore, AI mans Aft.

But then I got to thinking:hmm:, "Shouldn't I be able to do this again, but make BOTH decks mannable by AI?" So I tried it - It SEEMS to have worked (again, not combat tested yet, but I hit man the deck gun and I look to see both guns manned)... Here's what I did:

I'm going to assume you read Coletrains' instructions in the link I provided. They are a lot more detailed than mine, but not patricularly necessary for this fix.
You have to do this while in port.

Go into the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file in your save folder, per the thread above. Back it up first!

Find the gun deck that is not currently manned (Either Compartment 7(aft) or Compartment 8(fore)). You should see (substitute 7 for 8 if your fore gun deck is currently manned):
Code:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1]
Remove the words AdditionalRepository so it says:
Code:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1]
Repeat for Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 2.
Don't change anything else. Save.

Load the game. You should see two gun decks, one with your original gun crew and one with two empty slots. Put some crew in the new slots and head out to sea.

Now if only I could figure out how to make it let me choose which deck gun to man!
--------------------------------------------------
I recommend you read all the posts in these 2 topic links above so you get familiar with this file, the issues with the guns, and know how to 'fix them' when this happens.

Happy Hunting!

Havan_IronOak

08-06-15, 04:16 PM

I've been trying to fix the "No Deck Gun Crew" as suggesting the earlier posts in this thread and I've yet to get it to actually work. The gun does seem slow to load and I have to fire it myself but that's not really a show-stopper.

I timed the reload and it's only 15 seconds. That seems pretty OK all things considered.

I'll continue to experiment with the save files to see if I can figure what's wrong in that area.

The file I'm working on is ActiveUserPlayerUnits.UPC in the latest save game. That IS the correct file, right?

aanker

08-06-15, 05:25 PM

........ The file I'm working on is ActiveUserPlayerUnits.UPC in the latest save game. That IS the correct file, right?
Yes, that's the correct file. Are you running mods? TMO adds a 'Crew Berthing' section in the file, so that extra section changes the guns from:
the Stock:
Compartment 7 and Compartment 8 to
Compartment 8 and Compartment 9.
That is important and may help.... keep this in mind when planning your repair. You'll see what the Compartments are numbered when you look in ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc. Also, it is easier to do this repair work in port.

No, that isn't your job, you are doing ALL the work; hauling shells, loading, and firing, if you have no crew to 'help'. Your job is to command, Captain : )

Raptor_Pilot

08-06-15, 05:51 PM

I've also had problems with the deck gun, using v1.5 with GFO mod. (Which I don't think changes the Deck Gun in any way.)
I started off in Asiatic Fleet with a Sargo class , and I removed my gun crew before swapping out the rear-mounted deck gun (I had previously heard about losing the gun crew if not reassigned first) for a forward mount. Everything worked fine, and I reassigned the gun crew before leaving port.
I ran three patrols with the submarine before transferring to a Gato Class. After the transfer I was docked at Pearl Harbor, once again I put the gun crews in the Damage Control, swapped the Aft Mount for a Fore Mount, and reassigned the crew just fine.
I went on patrol, and put into Freemantle Australia to refuel and rearm before heading back out. After I headed out from Freemantle, the game crashed halfway through the new trip.
When I restarted the game and loaded my save game, my Deck Gun had mysteriously disappeared. I loaded up the autosave from back in Pearl Harbor before the patrol, and checked my subsystems.
My deck gun had somehow swapped from Fore to Aft and my crew was missing. There were empty crew slots, so I figured I'd remount the deck gun and reassign a crew. When I tried to put the fore mount gun in place, the deck gun crew slots disappeared, and I was unable to assign my gun crew.
I thought I would check things out, so I launched the boat and took a look. The deck gun was physically present, but the crew slots were not there. I loaded an earlier autosave to try to get my deck gun back, but even the stern deck gun crew slots were missing. I restarted the game and attempted to reload, but no matter what I did, the game refused to recognize that I had a deck gun attached.

At that moment I had a bit of a rage quit and deleted my career save, given the fact I had reloaded every save file associated with it, and in all of them the deck gun was nonexistent. Physically present, just not recognized by the game.

So I've downloaded this Default Bow Deck Gun (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4364) file, and restarted my career. Upon loading into my old Sargo Class in the Asiatic Fleet again, now I'm treated to a fully functional Bow Deck Gun by default.

Thank you Sniper297, you might have single-handedly saved Silent Hunter 4 for me. We'll see what happens when I transfer to a new submarine.

I'd like to meet the genius who though a deck gun should be stern mounted...

aanker

08-06-15, 06:20 PM

................. I'd like to meet the genius who though a deck gun should be stern mounted...
It is my understanding that Deck Gun placement, fore or aft was at the Captain's discretion, some preferred fore, some aft. (just as we have that choice - when the game cooperates). Look at US WW II submarine photos, there are both fore and aft guns pictured.

I happen to prefer a stern mount........ sorry : )

Happy Hunting!

Havan_IronOak

08-06-15, 07:10 PM

Thanks to all who've responded to my post. I think that I've finally found some joy to report.

I was editing the wrong file! There's a ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc in the savegames/000000#e/ directory, but there's also a savegames/000000#e/UPCInitial directory. That also contains a ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc. It seems to be the one in the lower level directory that matters.

I was missing that critical detail.

CapnScurvy

08-06-15, 07:49 PM

I've only read some of this thread, so I may be off base here,

BUT, changing the "SH4" folder is only a temporary fix.

The data within the "SH4" folder found in your "Documents" folder is only there because of your game "reading" the game's files and putting the important information it finds within the "main" game files into the SH4 folder for future use (like where you are in the game world when you decide to "save" your game.....or what information needs to be saved, like which sub your currently using.....how its configured, etc.).

To correct the issue, you need to correct the UPC files found in the "main" game files......not the group of files that are constantly remade/updated found in the "Documents/SH4" folder.

It's like the player the other day thinking she could make her game options "stick" by changing the SH4 folder to what she wanted (her thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=221334))......no way!

The "SH4" folder will read what's changed (or in her case, not changed) from the specific options menu files, making her manual changes to the SH4 folder revert back to what the "main" game files state every time she starts the game.

aanker

08-06-15, 08:13 PM

Great news. Yes, the \UPCInitial folder(s)..... Sorry about that.

Sometimes \UPCInitial is there, sometimes it is also in an upper level folder, and sometimes there isn't one. I don't know why.

CapnScurvy is right, the Main UPC files need to be perfect, however to correct the gun issue mid-game without starting over, the Saved Game needs to be edited. Coletrains edit was the best answer I could find.

Havan_IronOak

08-06-15, 10:03 PM

Capn Scurvy, I just did a test and am worried that I'm not understanding what you're saying.

Step 1 after the edit.
I rebooted my computer after the change. Relaunched the game, reloaded the "fixed file."
My gun reload speed went from 15 seconds to 8 seconds and I can see the deck gun crew now when I look at my crew manifest.

I then played for a bit made another save and then did step 1 again.
Everything now seems to be working.

I'm in a Gato class sub. Are you saying that the problem will re-occur if and when I get offered a newer boat?

If so, what files SHOULD I be looking at. You said "main" game files, can you give me a directory and a file name? I'd love to put this to bed permanently if I could and also post the fix on the You-tube channel that I'm watching where the guy's got the problem. He may never play again but others might.

CapnScurvy

08-07-15, 07:25 AM

Hello Havan_IronOak

What I'm saying is the "Documents/SH4" folder is only holding whatever "main" game files it needs to have in order to reproduce the game your playing. I would not count on making changes within the "SH4" folder and think.........it will hold the next time I start the game. It may not. Least wise it will probably change back to whatever the "main" game states its files read the next time you "save" the game, or the next time the game automatically "saves" the game (like when you return/leave port).

The changes/corrections need to be made within the "main" game files......within the "Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific" folder. Probably under the "Data/UPC" folders. The UPC folders will mirror the specific folders that are in the temporary "SH4" folder (after all THAT"S where the files in the "SH4" folder come from). It's there where changes should be made.

aanker is quite right. If you don't want to start over in a Campaign, then a temporary fix is what you do in the "SH4" folder. I'm one to think of the "SH4" folder as only a temporary folder....change it as often as changing your socks, but make fix's within the "Main" game files.