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View Full Version : New guy here, a few questions...


MirkoS
07-10-12, 02:10 AM
Hi guys,

New here, just picked up SH IV again after a few years and am looking to up the realism a bit and tinker with a few mods. I've heard of some great ones out there, and am wondering which are the best? From what I've seen, TMO looks to be what I'd like. I not only would like more athenticity, but for the graphics and sounds to be improved as well, and from videos I've seen on YT TMO looks to afford this.

However, I don't want a mod that necessarily demands more realism, but simply offers it. I'm as newb as newb gets and have a nightmare of a time sinking a single ship in prime firing position 1000m in front of me going 3 knots, don't even mention convoys.....ugh. I can target manually to sink the ship in the submarine school tutorial, not at full realism but it's a start I suppose. This is all vanilla though, and would I'd prefer to avoid over-complicating things with mods until my skills improve. But as mentioned, I'd like graphics and sounds to be better from the get-go.

This site will take me a good while for me to fully sort through, I guess what I'm wondering is what mods would you guys recommend for someone so new to this (is TMO a good start?), and how to install them as I'm not tech savvy in the least. I found this thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/402710-MOD-Installation-Step-by-Step

....which is of great assistance, but many of the links are broken. Where can I find the latest TMO version, and do I need to have my game patched to a certain version before trying to install it?

Great to be here and thanks for any help! :salute:

donna52522
07-10-12, 10:06 AM
Well many suggest jumping right into a megamod before you learn bad vanilla habits. But if you want to ease into it, you may want to try GFO (Game Fixes Only) by Webster. It fixes a lot of the vanilla bugs and adds some things including sound fixes.

There is a huge list of things he corrected or added.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151796

On top of that you can add a nice environmental graphics mod as well...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3590

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to the megamods, and they are all great, I have tried them all but personally favor TMO. However I have MultiSH and take a boat out in a different one now and again.

Welcome aboard MirkoS :)

Edit: In his GFO post it states that it's not compatible with any environment mods, but it works fine for me :)

HW3
07-10-12, 10:42 AM
I run TMO 2.5 with RSRDC for TMO. You have to be patched to 1.5 (The U-boat addon). Most mods nowadays require 1.5. With TMO, you can adjust the realism setting to your liking, so you do not have to jump into the deep end right away. Welcome aboard!

Armistead
07-10-12, 10:56 AM
Edit: In his GFO post it states that it's not compatible with any environment mods, but it works fine for me :)

It's not that env. mods won't work with most megamods, it's that each megamod tunes the sensors to connect with the env. they use in the mod.

Take TMO, sensors are tuned to work with the env mod, so it you use a different env. mod, some of the sensor values may go up or down, such as visuals. You've probably seen the light I added around the moon, a simple env. change, but it highly increased visuals, so you couldn't trust the visual ranges listed in TMO..However, most effects you would hardly notice, but a few can greatly effect sensors... Beyond that I don't think any of the env mods would cause a CTD, etc..

Hylander_1314
07-10-12, 07:53 PM
Yeah, what Donna said. If you're rather new, or just rusty, and need a little polishing, GFO is a great way to start.

MirkoS
07-12-12, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the help, I ended up using TMO and it's grand for what I need. After having played a bit more, I've a few questions. Pretty basic.

1) I'm having great difficulty with approaches, most notably convoys. Escorts usually stick to a few miles around the perimeter, which forces me to submerge early and chug along at a whopping 9 kts over many miles to attempt to try to sneak under them by to get in a decent firing position. During this time, even the slowest of convoys pass me by before I can get anywhere near enough to fire, unless I'm way ahead of them which usually doesn't happen. Surface speed of my boat is 17 kts (flank), submerged is a little over half that. I watched a video on YT where a guy said destroyers usually have a detection radius of 5 nm (depending on conditions/day or night). Is this a good assumption to make for all escorts? What about merchants? I've looked for a thread here explaining the basics of plotting and executing a good approach and really haven't found any.

2) I've been trying to use manual targeting but am becoming increasingly frustrated by my hit rate. I probably succeed, I'd say, 25% of the time (if that) or less. :/\\!! For the life of me I can't figure out why. I play torpedo school over and over and over again to try to hammer into my brain, and still it's a shot in the dark every time. Ok, ok, my success rate with basic torpedo attack is probably 50%. But sometimes my fish will veer radically off to the left, where the previous try they made perfect hits, and I had put in exactly the same info. I know it'll never be 100%, but I'd think it'd be above what I'm getting now. I'd be very happy with 80%. As it stands, when I'm ready to fire I save my game, fire, more than likely miss, reload save, do the same, fire, miss again, reload, fire, hit one of four. This happens with every ship. SINGLE ships going 6 kts, 800 yards out, 90^0. Prime. I'm sure I'm the laughing stock of my gallant crew, their morale is more than likely in the gutter. At this point I've turned auto targeting on. I just can't get any consistency from manual targeting, which is unfortunate as it's far more satisfying when I do the work and make a good hit. But it's not as fun reloading my saved game over and over, or not reloading it and coming back from every patrol without a single sinking.

3) I'm unsure what AoB means exactly, perhaps this is my problem. I always thought it was the heading of the ship relative to my heading. But then I watch YT vids and they go into the map screen, click ahead of the boats path, then on it, then draw a line to their boat to calculate the angle. Why? I don't see why this is necessary when one can just look and make a best guess-timation. This may be why my shots are so off, but I don't know exactly how this works and experimenting seems to be of no help either.

4) I usually don't bother with planes and just time compress by them, but have one more than one occassion seen one, ignored it, only to be informed a short time later, "warship closing, bearing...". Pretty obvious, but I assume planes not only present the danger of strafing and bombing runs, but they betray my position as well? Just checking.

I know these are very noobish/dumb questions, but hey, gotta start somewhere. I love sims but have never really been that good at them. Many of the tutorial vids on this site are entirely over my head, especially plotting a solution solely with sonar. I have NO idea what they're doing, or why. Hopefully they'll come out with a "Silent Hunter for dummies" edition sometime soon, I need it.

Sailor Steve
07-13-12, 12:16 AM
WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

I won't be much help with most of those, but the very best explanation of AOB is here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3467

doulos05
07-13-12, 02:12 AM
Thanks for the help, I ended up using TMO and it's grand for what I need. After having played a bit more, I've a few questions. Pretty basic.

1) I'm having great difficulty with approaches, most notably convoys. Escorts usually stick to a few miles around the perimeter, which forces me to submerge early and chug along at a whopping 9 kts over many miles to attempt to try to sneak under them by to get in a decent firing position. During this time, even the slowest of convoys pass me by before I can get anywhere near enough to fire, unless I'm way ahead of them which usually doesn't happen. Surface speed of my boat is 17 kts (flank), submerged is a little over half that. I watched a video on YT where a guy said destroyers usually have a detection radius of 5 nm (depending on conditions/day or night). Is this a good assumption to make for all escorts? What about merchants? I've looked for a thread here explaining the basics of plotting and executing a good approach and really haven't found any.


The best way to approach a convoy is from in front of it. You have to end around it and cut it off. If you're cruising your patrol area at 10 knots, fuel is no problem, so once you detect a convoy and know which way it is going, run ahead flank on the surface to a good intercept point (decided by you). You need to be able to arrive on-station at your intercept point 30 minutes to an hour ahead of the convoy. Sail decks awash (depth of about 25 feet or so) and hang out until you see the convoy and know which way the escorts are zigging. You want to present the smallest profile possible without them actually running over you. Ideally, you want to stay at least 1,000 yards from them also. Then, dive and begin your approach sailing into the convoy at 2-3 knots (ahead 1/3) and rigged for silent running while below the thermal. Come to periscope depth when your estimation of the convoy's speed puts them close to a good firing position).

2) I've been trying to use manual targeting but am becoming increasingly frustrated by my hit rate. I probably succeed, I'd say, 25% of the time (if that) or less. :/\\!! For the life of me I can't figure out why. I play torpedo school over and over and over again to try to hammer into my brain, and still it's a shot in the dark every time. Ok, ok, my success rate with basic torpedo attack is probably 50%. But sometimes my fish will veer radically off to the left, where the previous try they made perfect hits, and I had put in exactly the same info. I know it'll never be 100%, but I'd think it'd be above what I'm getting now. I'd be very happy with 80%. As it stands, when I'm ready to fire I save my game, fire, more than likely miss, reload save, do the same, fire, miss again, reload, fire, hit one of four. This happens with every ship. SINGLE ships going 6 kts, 800 yards out, 90^0. Prime. I'm sure I'm the laughing stock of my gallant crew, their morale is more than likely in the gutter. At this point I've turned auto targeting on. I just can't get any consistency from manual targeting, which is unfortunate as it's far more satisfying when I do the work and make a good hit. But it's not as fun reloading my saved game over and over, or not reloading it and coming back from every patrol without a single sinking.

Turn off duds and try again. It's in the Realism settings. Also, check your PK (Position Keeper). Make sure it is off when you take the shot.


3) I'm unsure what AoB means exactly, perhaps this is my problem. I always thought it was the heading of the ship relative to my heading. But then I watch YT vids and they go into the map screen, click ahead of the boats path, then on it, then draw a line to their boat to calculate the angle. Why? I don't see why this is necessary when one can just look and make a best guess-timation. This may be why my shots are so off, but I don't know exactly how this works and experimenting seems to be of no help either.

Precision, that's the main reason. And the fact that, if you've calculated the ship's course, you can calculate AoB from the comfort and safety of the thermal layer without exposing yourself to pings and periscope sightings.


4) I usually don't bother with planes and just time compress by them, but have one more than one occassion seen one, ignored it, only to be informed a short time later, "warship closing, bearing...". Pretty obvious, but I assume planes not only present the danger of strafing and bombing runs, but they betray my position as well? Just checking.

Short answer, I think so. My rough understanding is that whenever a 'contact report' is generated for your sub, all anti-submarine assets within a given range make full steam for your position. They do that for x minutes, where x is a value in a file (can't remember which file), at which point, unless they have made contact with you, they turn around and go back. The timer resets every time a 'contact report' is generated.


I know these are very noobish/dumb questions, but hey, gotta start somewhere. I love sims but have never really been that good at them. Many of the tutorial vids on this site are entirely over my head, especially plotting a solution solely with sonar. I have NO idea what they're doing, or why. Hopefully they'll come out with a "Silent Hunter for dummies" edition sometime soon, I need it.

Don't worry about it, you'll figure it out eventually. Just keep plugging away and eventually you'll have the IJN plugging away too... at the massive holes you've blown in their ships!

MirkoS
07-13-12, 10:38 PM
Thanks.

Why can't I rearm at my bases? I'm on a patrol and have run out of fish. I head back to Pearl, but the box does not come up (postpone, end patrol, rearm). I head to Midway, same thing. I've gone to three bases so far. My fuel is almost out. I'm in the middle of a patrol but they keep giving me new orders one after another (believe I'm on my sixth).

Why can't I get resupplied? Do I have to finish all the patrols even though it's a waste of my time as I'm running empty? I can't keep this up with the amount of fuel I have left.

twm47099
07-13-12, 11:19 PM
Thanks.

Why can't I rearm at my bases? I'm on a patrol and have run out of fish. I head back to Pearl, but the box does not come up (postpone, end patrol, rearm). I head to Midway, same thing. I've gone to three bases so far. My fuel is almost out. I'm in the middle of a patrol but they keep giving me new orders one after another (believe I'm on my sixth).

Why can't I get resupplied? Do I have to finish all the patrols even though it's a waste of my time as I'm running empty? I can't keep this up with the amount of fuel I have left.

I had the same problem, but then I noticed an anchor symbol in the upper right corner of my screen (where the submerged, battle stations, and silent running notifications are.) When I clicked that I got the postpone, rearm, end patrol notification.

Tom

magic452
07-14-12, 12:29 AM
Welcome aboard mate.:salute:

One thing that will help you get more hits is the order you input the data into the TDC. Most important. :know:

First turn on the PK.
Second input speed and click the send to PK.
Third input AoB and send to PK
Third take a steadymeter reading to get range and bearing and send to PK.

Lots of other tips found here.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795
Lots of reading but well worth it.

Might also check out this post.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1891148&postcount=16

Magic

MirkoS
07-14-12, 03:55 AM
I had the same problem, but then I noticed an anchor symbol in the upper right corner of my screen (where the submerged, battle stations, and silent running notifications are.) When I clicked that I got the postpone, rearm, end patrol notification.

Tom

Muchas Gracias.

MirkoS
07-14-12, 04:13 AM
Welcome aboard mate.:salute:

One thing that will help you get more hits is the order you input the data into the TDC. Most important. :know:

First turn on the PK.
Second input speed and click the send to PK.
Third input AoB and send to PK
Third take a steadymeter reading to get range and bearing and send to PK.

Lots of other tips found here.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795
Lots of reading but well worth it.

Might also check out this post.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1891148&postcount=16

MagicI pretty much know what I need to do, that's not my problem. My solutions are just never acurrate enough with the info I input, even at very short distances. I've learned to calculate speed (distance over time=speed), know range, and am fairly certain AoB is good. Here's what I'm doing:

1) ID target with manual, click check mark, close manual.

2) click on PK.

3) click range button, drag ghost image down until waterline is at top of mast, click red button to send to TDC.

4) go to map screen, calculate AoB, adjust accordingly and send to TDC.

5) calculate speed and send to TDC.

6) change torpedo settings as needed.

Before firing I'll quickly redo range a final time and make sure AoB hasn't changed. The only thing I can think of is maybe I'm misidentifying ships in the manual, though I'm not sure if this would have a serious enough impact on my solutions. Is there anything I'm missing? I'll try the method in that second link, let you know if I have better luck.

@doulos-duds are off. It's not a matter of premature detonation or faulty depth, but of simply hitting the ship.

doulos05
07-14-12, 04:53 AM
I pretty much know what I need to do, that's not my problem. My solutions are just never acurrate enough with the info I input, even at very short distances. I've learned to calculate speed (distance over time=speed), know range, and am fairly certain AoB is good. Here's what I'm doing:

1) ID target with manual, click check mark, close manual.

2) click on PK.

3) click range button, drag ghost image down until waterline is at top of mast, click red button to send to TDC.

4) go to map screen, calculate AoB, adjust accordingly and send to TDC.

5) calculate speed and send to TDC.

6) change torpedo settings as needed.

Ah, you have to send range and bearing last. Range and bearing define the starting point for the vector you're drawing. You have to define the vector first, then you tell it where to start.

@doulos-duds are off. It's not a matter of premature detonation or faulty depth, but of simply hitting the ship.

Duds includes circle runners, which veer off wildly. But based on your entry method, you're probably correct, it's not the duds.

twm47099
07-14-12, 12:17 PM
Ah, you have to send range and bearing last. Range and bearing define the starting point for the vector you're drawing. You have to define the vector first, then you tell it where to start.


Duds includes circle runners, which veer off wildly. But based on your entry method, you're probably correct, it's not the duds.

I think you also have to turn on the PK after you have entered the range and bearing, so it starts at that point and doesn't just update from a previous point. One thing you can do if you have map contacts on (and whichever mod you are using shows the target shape), is after you have entered everything and turned on the PK is go to the attack map, and check that the solution for the target position and course is accurate. The white "X" should be on the target and the white line should be along the ship axis.

The usual problems I have with manual targeting is getting the range from the stadimeter and estimating the AOB. Again with contacts on, I can use the course from the navigation screen to measure AOB (which is probably cheating). But I usually find my range from the scope is not very accurate.

When manually targeting, I have resorted to using one of two methods -

1. Zero gyro angle attacks, either O'Kane 90 or more usually a 60 degree attack, where I draw a vector diagram or use a table I put together to determine lead angle and AOB setting (check in the hints and tips thread). These methods eliminate the need for accurate range estimates.

2. Sound bearing attacks (determine course while remaining stationary using 3 bearing measurements with constant time intervals, followed by another bearing made after moving a reasonable distance to triangulate and determine range and speed). If I have time, I'll do a couple of more triangulations to check and refine the solution.

When I have used this method (TMA or sound bearing only threads detail the method) , I enter all the parameters into the TDC and then shoot at a predetermined point when the TDC shows a predetermined target AOB or a near zero torpedo gyro angle. There's no need to even raise the scope.

When I first started using this method I ran checks by doing all the calcs with the periscope down so I won't see any actual contact locations. Then as the target got near the firing point I would raise the scope just to show contacts. The white "X" in the attack scope was very accurately located over the ship shape. (In one case it was centered along the length but was on the far beam of the contact. The white line (predicted course) was along the axis of the ship. By shooting at near zero gyro angle, I again minimize the effect of any range error. This has been one of the most accurate methods (probably not very historical since I've read that there were no successful "sound only" attacks in WWII. Our sound bearing information seems to be much more accurate than real life.)

The short coming of the TMA method, is that it is difficult to do this for more than one ship at a time, and in convoys you have to carefully keep track of the bearing line for the same ship. The course and speed of the target also need to be constant, although I have used it successfully with a constantly weaving target. It also does take some time. Depending on the relative heading of the target, I use 6 to 12 minutes between bearings when I'm stationary and at least 2 times that for the range bearing.

Tom

doulos05
07-14-12, 07:24 PM
The usual problems I have with manual targeting is getting the range from the stadimeter and estimating the AOB. Again with contacts on, I can use the course from the navigation screen to measure AOB (which is probably cheating). But I usually find my range from the scope is not very accurate.


Using the navigation screen to get AOB isn't cheating. I'll guarantee you there was at least one approach officer in the fleet who thought to draw the vector equation out to make sure what the captain was calling down from the scope made sense. That's all you're doing.

twm47099
07-15-12, 12:03 AM
Using the navigation screen to get AOB isn't cheating. I'll guarantee you there was at least one approach officer in the fleet who thought to draw the vector equation out to make sure what the captain was calling down from the scope made sense. That's all you're doing.

Actually,
I agree with you. I have a crew to operate the boat and provide me with the info I need to make decisions. I recall reading in a couple of books by the Aces that they would often have the firing party running solutions on more than one ship so that they could fire one one, enter the info into the TDC on the second and fire on that one as soon as the TDC finished doing its thing and setting the torpedo gyros. That sound an awful lot like map contacts on and even auto targeting (because of the speed they could switch from one target to another.)

Tom

magic452
07-15-12, 01:18 AM
I pretty much know what I need to do, that's not my problem. My solutions are just never acurrate enough with the info I input, even at very short distances. I've learned to calculate speed (distance over time=speed), know range, and am fairly certain AoB is good. Here's what I'm doing:

1) ID target with manual, click check mark, close manual.
With TMO there is an ID ship icon you can click and get the right ship.

2) click on PK. Do this just before you send range.

3) click range button, drag ghost image down until waterline is at top of mast, click red button to send to TDC. You want to send range/bearing last as Doulos said.

4) go to map screen, calculate AoB, adjust accordingly and send to TDC.
That third link I gave you will show you how to get perfect AoB and is a very good accurate method of shooting. Get far enough head of the target to have time do do all the things you need to do. Stocking the target and getting a good set up is the important part, shooting the ships is easy if you do that.

5) calculate speed and send to TDC. Send speed first than AoB. The order you send things is very important!!!

6) change torpedo settings as needed.

Before firing I'll quickly redo range a final time and make sure AoB hasn't changed. The only thing I can think of is maybe I'm misidentifying ships in the manual, though I'm not sure if this would have a serious enough impact on my solutions. Is there anything I'm missing? I'll try the method in that second link, let you know if I have better luck.

@doulos-duds are off. It's not a matter of premature detonation or faulty depth, but of simply hitting the ship.


Practice Practice Practice You'll get the hang of it soon enough.
You've gotten some good advice from everyone here and it will just click at some point. Save the game when you first make contact so you can shoot the same set up and it'll all become clear pretty soon. :know:

Magic

TorpX
07-15-12, 03:29 AM
Do I have to finish all the patrols even though it's a waste of my time as I'm running empty? I can't keep this up with the amount of fuel I have left.

No, you don't have to finish all, or any, of your patrol objectives. It is a peculairity of the game, that it will give you new orders at every opportunity. It is not realistic, or very well thought out. It is much more important to sink ships. If you do that, you will be alright.

When I play, I make a good faith effort to fulfill my initial objective, and maybe a second, but if they are suicidal, impossible or just plain stupid, I consider that my orders were "garbled in transmission", and ignore them. Also, I stay in my primary patrol area for at least a week, maybe more, so I am not frequently calling in for new orders. Of course, you can just ignore your orders altogether, if you want.

MirkoS
07-15-12, 05:31 AM
Thanks for the tips, my accuracy has improved quite a bit. Nothing surefire, but far better than I was getting previously, at longer distances as well.

Now I'm having one other problem, I just need a way to find out a ship's speed and course without having visual contact so I can plot an intercept. As it is now, I stay on the surface at full speed and head in the general direction of the sound contact until my lookouts spot it. Then I use the marker three times over a period of a few minutes and use the ruler to determine course, plot an intercept, and dive to periscope depth at about 2k yards. This is all well and good until I want to make an approach and attack in storms with heavy fog or pitch black where visibility is severely hampered or non-existent and I won't see the ship until they can easily spot me and take evasive maneuvers/attack.

Problem is, I have no clue as to how radar/sonar works, or how I can utilize them to see what a target is doing aside from getting its bearing. I don't see how the hydrophone could do this. I'm not looking to plot a torpedo attack without visual reference (that's quite far above my head at this point), just to find out how far away, what bearing, and how fast a ship is going without having to see it. I want to be able to stay under until the last moment, pop up the scope for a minute, plot my solution, fire, and get outta dodge. Many times destroyers spot my periscope from way off even at night.

I've found a vid on YT that I'd like to try:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6kq4simwI0

....but am unable to use my radar. I've read it wasn't available until mid '42, it's currently August '42 on my patrol but I'm unable to use it. My guy has no trouble alerting me to planes, tells me "radar contact". Don't know why he can use it but I can't.

I'm very grateful for this site, but I have to say that it makes some fairly large assumptions towards new players. It gives me far too much credit. :haha: Many of the videos and tutorials explain what to do, but they fail to elaborate on why, which is crucial. Watching and following these tutorial vids, much of the time I have NO idea why I'm doing something, which I think if I did it'd make things that much easier. I'm just following someone else's step-by-step procedure with no understanding, so experimentation on my part is useless. I suppose a fitting analogy would be that I'm sounding out words with no comprehension as to what I'm saying. Reading many posts here (I've gone through mostly all the tutorial threads trying my best to follow along), I still feel like a complete idiot and lost. That may be. But damnit, I'm not giving up and am going to get good at SH IV if it kills me. :/\\!!

Again, thanks for the continued help.

MirkoS
07-15-12, 10:15 PM
Is there some info on where merchant shipping is? I'm not using RSRD (yet). I'm finding myself patrolling up and down Nippon's coast for weeks and months on end without getting any contacts. Occasionally a single destroyer which I can't catch up to. My orders are to sink as many ships as I can find, with no option to rtb until then. All I'm doing is heading back and forth to refuel and not sinking anything. Planes constantly interrupt my time compression and force me to submerge until night when near the coast. I've found the Bungo Suido has many ships, but is always covered in a thick fog, which makes it impossible for me to engage as I don't have radar and even if I did I don't know how it works as my post above explains.

I also keep being giving new orders over and over (on my ninth now), on my third patrol. My first two I had one (maybe two) objectives and then the option to rtb. I'd like to get back to promote crew and see if radar is available so I can start fooling around with it but as long as I have standing orders I can't end the patrol. How long do I have to stay out for? I've refueled dozens of times. In fact, most of my time has been spent in transit to Midway with a belly-full load of fish. I have a very hard time imagining this is even remotely close to being historically accurate. I don't need constant action ala Call of Duty here, but do need a few ships here and there to keep interest. There's nothing. Task forces are way too fast, and I've only seen one convoy on all my patrols, many radioed in but far too away to reach. 90% of my contacts are 1-2 ships.

I apologize for the tone, but this is getting ridiculous and I'm becoming increasingly frustrated.

magic452
07-16-12, 12:47 AM
It does indeed get frustrating, we have all been there.

You can only end a patrol at your home port.
Best thing to do is return to Pearl, if that is your home base(Tilted anchor),
and request a transfer to Brisbane or Fremantle which ever is available. All the action in the early war is in that area.
The first mission might still be to Japanese home waters but just ignore the mission and patrol around the Philippines or Somalians. Sink some ships and all will be good.

There are two different radars, air search and surface search. You have air search from the beginning but don't get surface search till mid 42.
The radar stations you see are both for surface search radar.

Here is a link to all the battles of WWII
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/pacificwar/timeline.htm

Magic

boonie
07-16-12, 02:40 AM
Try restarting career and base at Manila, u get boats 1 rank lower but the massive saving of transit time to action area will bag alot more kills in much less time.

Plus you get alot of action right near where the IJN is invading. 1st and 2nd mission just go outside of Manila and follow a course of 40-50km along the shoreline to North side of Luzon, guaranteed to get butt load of encounter.

stick to this shipping route map i found from google when looking for action, it works:
http://i.imgur.com/AvuU0.png

also when travelling, go to the nav map, zoom out to some degree, go time compression 512x and watch ur ship's blip, when it goes stuttering abit that means theres a 'glitch in the matrix' :D stop time compression immediately and dive to periscope depth and start a 360 hydrophone sweep manually and listen for contact. This method is cheating, but if u want to do it 'historically correct', u can do the dive and listen for contact every 20km, you will feel like dying before u reach north luzon if u use this method.

Sailor Steve
07-16-12, 08:42 AM
I'm sure many a captain wished he had cheats that he could use that way. :sunny:

boonie
07-16-12, 11:08 AM
I'm sure many a captain wished he had cheats that he could use that way. :sunny:
20km dive method makes me grow white hair. Although it is more effective, its not a very good usage of time. :)

Overkill
07-16-12, 04:45 PM
Welcome, MirkoS. I just started playing SHIV again myself. The people on these forums are awesome help if ya run into any problems. :ping:

MirkoS
07-16-12, 09:29 PM
The best way to approach a convoy is from in front of it. You have to end around it and cut it off. If you're cruising your patrol area at 10 knots, fuel is no problem, so once you detect a convoy and know which way it is going, run ahead flank on the surface to a good intercept point (decided by you). You need to be able to arrive on-station at your intercept point 30 minutes to an hour ahead of the convoy. Sail decks awash (depth of about 25 feet or so) and hang out until you see the convoy and know which way the escorts are zigging. You want to present the smallest profile possible without them actually running over you. Ideally, you want to stay at least 1,000 yards from them also. Then, dive and begin your approach sailing into the convoy at 2-3 knots (ahead 1/3) and rigged for silent running while below the thermal. Come to periscope depth when your estimation of the convoy's speed puts them close to a good firing position).

I've been trying this but simply am incapable of making an approach on any convoy I encounter, even if I'm ahead of them. The escorts always spot me no matter what I do. I once measured when one started off course to head my direction, it was 9.8nm away. I couldn't even see the smoke on the horizon, yet he saw me. There's no way I can submerge and reach close enough at half the speed when being on the surface at that distance. To me it seems impossible to get within firing range. I can't even get withen VISUAL distance without being chased. Maybe they're using sonar, but what can I do? I have to be at flank speed to catch up. This A.I. in this seems way, way off and far too keen (a few reviews have made this point, so I'm not alone). Even at night in pitch black I'm unable to get anywhere near 1000y, and I keep reading WWII skippers sank boats from on the surface at night, sometime even under that at 600y. That's utterly impossible here; I can't even get three times the distance away having approached underwater while going 9kts without discovery.

This isn't a small issue....this is game breaking for me. Single merchants I can approach fine, but anything else is fruitless. I've tried Orpheus' A.I. mod to no avail. Do I have to get directly in a convoy's path long before it reaches me, surface when they're over me, and then attack? Is it impossible to come at them 90 ^0 1000y off? It seems so, and I'm trying everything possible. Wondering two things:

1) how far away should I submerge is very clear conditions?
2) do escorts zigzag even when I've not been seen?

Again, thanks for the continued help with a guy fumbling with his new shaky sea-legs.

Dignan
07-16-12, 09:59 PM
I've been trying this but simply am incapable of making an approach on any convoy I encounter, even if I'm ahead of them. The escorts always spot me no matter what I do. I once measured when one started off course to head my direction, it was 9.8nm away. I couldn't even see the smoke on the horizon, yet he saw me. There's no way I can submerge and reach close enough at half the speed when being on the surface at that distance. To me it seems impossible to get within firing range. I can't even get withen VISUAL distance without being chased. Maybe they're using sonar, but what can I do? I have to be at flank speed to catch up. This A.I. in this seems way, way off and far too keen (a few reviews have made this point, so I'm not alone). Even at night in pitch black I'm unable to get anywhere near 1000y, and I keep reading WWII skippers sank boats from on the surface at night, sometime even under that at 600y. That's utterly impossible here; I can't even get three times the distance away having approached underwater while going 9kts without discovery.

This isn't a small issue....this is game breaking for me. Single merchants I can approach fine, but anything else is fruitless. I've tried Orpheus' A.I. mod to no avail. Do I have to get directly in a convoy's path long before it reaches me, surface when they're over me, and then attack? Is it impossible to come at them 90 ^0 1000y off? It seems so, and I'm trying everything possible. Wondering two things:

1) how far away should I submerge is very clear conditions?
2) do escorts zigzag even when I've not been seen?

Again, thanks for the continued help with a guy fumbling with his new shaky sea-legs.

Do a search for TMO Easier AI. I use this and I find it to be a good balance between everyone being an elite destroyer from modern day to the dumb escorts you get in stock. I also use RSRDC which has a bit less difficult AI than straight TMO.

MirkoS
07-16-12, 10:45 PM
Do a search for TMO Easier AI. I use this and I find it to be a good balance between everyone being an elite destroyer from modern day to the dumb escorts you get in stock. I also use RSRDC which has a bit less difficult AI than straight TMO.I'm using the A.I. mod. I just had success approaching a convoy. My first! :rock: I mistakenly thought that the escorts only zig-zagged if you were spotted, not by default so I was giving up even before the convoy reached me. I was able to get in range close enough to sink a single ship and then got depth charged to hell. It's a start. Boy is it satisfying to have a good solution hit.

twm47099
07-16-12, 11:02 PM
... I have to be at flank speed to catch up. This A.I. in this seems way, way off and far too keen (a few reviews have made this point, so I'm not alone). Even at night in pitch black I'm unable to get anywhere near 1000y, and I keep reading WWII skippers sank boats from on the surface at night, sometime even under that at 600y. That's utterly impossible here; I can't even get three times the distance away having approached underwater while going 9kts without discovery.

This isn't a small issue....this is game breaking for me. Single merchants I can approach fine, but anything else is fruitless. I've tried Orpheus' A.I. mod to no avail. Do I have to get directly in a convoy's path long before it reaches me, surface when they're over me, and then attack? Is it impossible to come at them 90 ^0 1000y off? It seems so, and I'm trying everything possible. Wondering two things:

1) how far away should I submerge is very clear conditions?
2) do escorts zigzag even when I've not been seen?

Again, thanks for the continued help with a guy fumbling with his new shaky sea-legs.

I haven't tried TMO. I use stock with contacts on.

If you ever want to attract escorts, just submerge and go full or flank while only a couple of miles away from them. They come like flies to garbage.

In stock you get visible sonar bearing lines long before they are within visible range. You also get black lines for merchants and blue lines for escorts. I use the visible sonar bearing lines to estimate their course. (I also use the chronometer 'high TC stutter' as a key when I should go to the sonar station and do a manual bearing sweep before the sonar operator starts calling out bearings so I can get a head start.) Then I work out an intercept course to get to firing position. First I make sure that I am about 5nm away from the convoy's estimated position and start running at either full or flank (if on the surface).

During a clear day in an aircraft infested area, I submerge, go below the layer, and go at full speed. That will result in a long chase, and sometimes I won't be able to intercept. (You can estimate the convoy's speed from the sonar operators report and do a vector diagram to get a good intercept course.) On a rainy/foggy day or at night I'll stay on the surface and move at flank speed.

I try to get far enough ahead of the convoy that I can turn and make a 60 degree approach. I usually try to get within 1000 yrds of the projected course of the convoy column closest to me. My ultimate goal is to position my sub between columns 1 and 2 (column 1 is the column closest to me as I approach the convoy.)

At that point the convoy is still well out of visible range. I will also have my sub running slow (1/3 or 2/3). At night I will remain on the surface depending where the escorts are. Once they are in visual range, if I see an escort approaching on a track that will come close to me, I will submerge (particularly if there is a moon.)

Once I can see the ships of the convoy, I refine their course and pick out my targets (I prefer to concentrate on ships of 5000 tons or greater.) I try to pick two ships in adjacent columns and in the same row. I might have to reposition myself so that the target columns are in front of the sub. That can get interesting to make sure I don't get run over or get within minimum torpedo range. If I get that type of setup, I will shoot at the furthest column first (60 degree approach with 0 degree torpedo gyro, so I don't have to worry about exact ranges). I can usually kill both ships. I might be able to get a 3rd ship when they start to scatter, but I also have to be concerned about keeping out of the way of the scattering ships.

If the escorts are nearby, I will go deep at 2/3 and get below the layer. The I speed up to standard and move away from the escorts, sometimes aiming under a scattering ship. If they don't initially follow me, I go full speed and gain distance. If there are more worthwhile ships, I'll get some distance (about 5nm) wait for them to reform and then do it all over again (getting ahead of the convoy and setting up again.) Usually, on a re-attack, the escorts are well behind the convoy.

Tom

magic452
07-17-12, 12:19 AM
I'm using the A.I. mod. I just had success approaching a convoy. My first! :rock: I mistakenly thought that the escorts only zig-zagged if you were spotted, not by default so I was giving up even before the convoy reached me. I was able to get in range close enough to sink a single ship and then got depth charged to hell. It's a start. Boy is it satisfying to have a good solution hit.

Me thinks that we are getting a new skipper on board mates. :salute::salute:

Stick with it my friend you are starting with a very hard mod so it'll take some time but before lone you'll be sinking them with the best of us.

It all gets much easier when you get radar.:yeah:

Magic

MirkoS
07-17-12, 04:45 AM
Thanks. I just got radar and have been messing around with it, though don't quite know yet how to work it. All the tutorials online confuse me (aside from the one YT vid I linked.....but I tried to follow his method and it unfortunately didn't pan out), so I'm just going to have to figure this out on my own somehow. Eh...I'm loving this game regardless, even though I'm only able to determine a ship's course and plot an intercept on clear days visually. Anything submerged using solely sound I'm stuck, and night-time and storm engagements (especially) are difficult as well.

I've noticed that some ships change course when I'm waiting at periscope depth and listening with my hydrophone for him to start approaching my 0. I've read that convoys would travel in "steps", as in a ladder pattern. It's not zig-zagging.....well it is I suppose but over a long distance. Each zig and zag are miles long. Is this modelled in game and is what's happening? A few times now I've set up and waited only to have him change course 90 to starboard from a few miles away and disappear.

Armistead
07-17-12, 08:24 AM
If you're playing TMO alone you'll see course changes about every 10nms, it will often leave you in left field. Most zigs are still on a base course, so try to figure it's direction and setup to attack soon after the next zig.. You should always have a speed advantage over convoys.

Don't give up, takes awhile to learn how the AI reacts, in time you'll find TMO too easy.

MirkoS
07-19-12, 04:30 AM
I just am unable to get this manual targeting down. I can always hit the warship in training but anything else at further distances always misses. I know how to ascertain speed and range. I still do not understand AoB, as experimentation does nothing more than give inconsistent results. My father and I spent two hours tonight trying everything we could to figure it out, to no avail. He's more stumped than I and he's a damn physicist. I know it's not complicated, but it NEVER WORKS. I've been told a few things as to what AoB is, could someone tell me which?

1) it's the target's path relative to my zero bearing. So if he's 1000y ahead of me heading due east at a 10 o'clock position and I'm pointed straight north, my AoB dial should be pointing at 3 o'clock, as that's his direction. If he's at 12 due east, it should be at pointing at 3. If he's at my 2 o'clock again going east, it should still be pointing at 3. If he diverts due north and is directly at my 0, it should point to 12 o'clock. This seems to give me the most success, but does not make sense to me.

2) as someone said in another thread, it's where the sub is from the target's perspective. So if someone was standing on deck looking at the sub, that's the angle the dial should be pointing. So if he's 1000y out at my 10 o'clock, the dial's pointing at 4. If he's directly at my 0, it's pointing straight down. If he's at my 2 o'clock, the dial's pointing in an 8 o'clock direction. Etc, etc. This is the best explanation I've read so far and seems to me to make the most sense, however I've had very limited success with it (especially at long distances), and not nearly as much as with the above method.

I've also tried using the numbers in the AoB dial. It shows 1-18, front to back on either side. I understand this to mean my 0 is directly ahead, 18 (180) is directly behind me. That's all good. What I'm doing when a ship is approaching is look at the bearing in my scope. Say he's at 320 headed east with me pointed straight up north. So at that exact moment my AoB would be 40 (or notch 4 on the starboard side on the dial, as that's the side facing me), because 360-40=320. Correct? I would think this is the most accurate and seems to make sense but the fish go wildly off course always to the left and I've tried it both S and P sides.

What kind of success rates do you guys get? Maybe my expectations are just too high but I barely ever hit and these shots are always at least 1000y, many times closer. They're oftentimes not straight ahead as destroyers stick close but are usually at least always taken at 320-340. I keep reloading just to be able to experiment, input the exact same things I did the time before, and have gotten different results many times, and while minor, over long distances that's enough to screw up the works. It seems even if I put in a perfect solution that hits I'm still told my solution's "poor" on the torpedo launch panel prior to firing. I'm using TMO 2.5 so perhaps that is why. The attack map also does not show the white X where my fish would hit as the vanilla version does.

Can someone explain this to me in layman's terms? Is what I'm doing or is my understanding wrong? :06: I've looked and scrutinized over every single video I can find about manual TDC from here and on YT and have read everything on this site and what I can find on the web. It's quite disheartening to set up an intercept over a period of hours only to inevitably miss every shot. But I don't want to play auto targeting as it's 100% more satisfying when I've done the work. I've been at this for two weeks now, have done everything possible I can think of, and am becoming quite discouraged.

Every shot is one taken in the dark, and for the life of me after much headache, I still can't figure out why.

TorpX
07-19-12, 06:25 AM
I think you are making a mistake about the AoB. It is indeed the relative bearing of your boat as seen from the target. The easiest way to visualize this is if you draw a line along the targets course (the target track) and measure the angle from ahead of the target on that line, to your position with the vertex of the angle being the target.

So if the target is moving straight at you, the AoB is 0. If it is moving directly away, it is 180. If it directly in front of you moving 90 deg. east, the AoB is 90 deg. starboard. And if it is in front, moving 270 deg. west, it is 90 deg. port.

as someone said in another thread, it's where the sub is from the target's perspective. So if someone was standing on deck looking at the sub, that's the angle the dial should be pointing. So if he's 1000y out at my 10 o'clock, the dial's pointing at 4.

This is true only if he is headed 0 deg. N.




If he's directly at my 0, it's pointing straight down.

Only if he is headed 0 deg. N.


If he's at my 2 o'clock, the dial's pointing in an 8 o'clock direction.

Only if he is headed 0 deg. N.

Etc, etc. This is the best explanation I've read so far and seems to me to make the most sense, however I've had very limited success with it (especially at long distances), and not nearly as much as with the above method.



Don't feel bad about having trouble with the AoB thing. Everyone finds it confusing at first. The AoB is just a nautical term for the angle of the target. Why do we even need to know the angle? Only because the TDC needs to have the target's course, so it's future positions can be computed and updated. The AoB is the means by which the targets course is input into the TDC. If the targets didn't move, you could dispense with the AoB altogether.



D'oh, I mixed up port and starboard in the second paragraph. I must be dyslexic. Corrected now.

MirkoS
07-20-12, 05:19 AM
Thanks Torp! :salute:

I've found the best method is to use the protractor, draw a line around 500 yards long on his course if front of him, then click on a point about a minute ahead of where he is, then click dead center on my sub and wait. Meanwhile send that soon to be Aob to the TDC. Watch the map until he's a few seconds away, then quickly take range a final time and fire. This is working, unfortunately it's very hard to attack multiple ships this way quickly enough and I need the course to be fairly exact. Even if I do get it, by the time my first fish have hit my second volley is just leaving, and by then the others have begun zig-zagging. It's also impossible to do if my presence is known. Since 1 degree can have a pretty big impact at a far range, I don't see how people can guesstimate AoB or quickly calculate it on the map as the ship moves past that point by the time they fire.

Aside, thanks again for your help.

Armistead
07-20-12, 07:40 AM
You can get a perfect AOB by the groups course relative to your sub. If you get two good stad measurements, get speed and course, just spin the AOB wheel to the course given or just use your tools to determine his course and enter that.

TorpX
07-21-12, 03:12 AM
Since 1 degree can have a pretty big impact at a far range, I don't see how people can guesstimate AoB or quickly calculate it on the map as the ship moves past that point by the time they fire.

I wouldn't worry about the AoB being exact. The math is not linear here. With good set-ups, where the track angle is near perpenicular, and the range is not too great, a 5 deg., or even 10 deg. error should be acceptable. A small error, with a 'down the throat shot', is another story, though.

In RL, the Skipper would call out an observed AoB and the tracking party would compare it to what was expected according to the TDC and plot. If it was within 10 deg., they would either let the TDC continue or make the small correction, and the approach would continue. If there was a substantial difference they would know the target had zigged, and might need to alter their approach. Their was a certain amount of 'art' to this business; it wasn't a simple cut and dried technique.


Anyway, after you have digested the whole AoB thing, you might want to take a look at the USN Submaring Torpedo Fire Control Manual. Even people who are expert in playing SH4 can learn something here. I certainly did. :)


http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm

MirkoS
07-27-12, 09:03 PM
I'm currently reading Iron Coffins, getting my U-boat fill lately. :D Great book. Any other recommendations would be great.

Herbert Werner, the author, has made a few claims I'm wondering about and maybe you sub experts here can help me out with. He's stated that in missions they went down to 250m and deeper. That's 820 feet. I'm not that knowledgeable on U-boats, but that seems a bit hard to swallow. My U.S boat in SH4 crushes at around half that. Could U-boats really reach those depths? According to Das Boot (the extent of my expertise :haha:), they could. Am I just early in the war where our boats sucked? Or were the U.S. boats not as capable overall as opposed to their German counterparts?

Also, he describes some Atlantic storms during his tours. He claims some of the waves were 70m+. That's nearly 230 feet. I find that extraordinarily difficult to believe. I don't care what kind of boat it is, waves 23 stories tall or higher would topple any ship out there. At first I thought he said 7 which would be far easier to accept, but he clearly says 70 more than once. Is this just a case of creative liberties taken a step too far, or is this guy for real?

TorpX
07-28-12, 01:03 AM
I can't answer your questions about Werner's claims, but USN subs could go deeper than their stated "maximum" depths.


As far as book recommendations, I would suggest Wahoo, and Clear the Bridge!, both by Richard H. O'Kane.

Armistead
07-28-12, 07:34 AM
Different boats had different crush depths, the better subs seeminly could go very deep to the great design of the german pressure hull.

Once a Type-VIIC boat involutarily dived to 340 metres (1115 feet) without breaking up. The calculated absolute maximum 'crush-depth' of this type was actually 280-300m.

Hylander_1314
07-28-12, 08:32 AM
Mirkos,

Remember, the redline on the depth guage, is the "test" depth. Every game until a modded SH3 and SH4 had the boats crush after passing "test" depth. Uboats, and fleetboats could go passed their respective test depths, and many did regularly when being attacked by destroyers hunting them.

And because of hollywood, and the games we play, it has given people a skewed belief in operational sub depths, as far as how deep they really could and did go. In TMO you can take your fleetboat way beyond the shipyard rated safe test depth. How far could you go beyond that? Don't know. And every boat while playing TMO that I have found the crush depth for, ended with the boat and crew lost, and having to start a new campaign.

With comparing the difference between the Uboats and fleetboats, aside from construction and design differences to meet the needs of the respective services, remember that the fleetboats, especially the Gar and Tambor classes and later boats were roughly similar in dimensions to the Type IX Uboats for size, and like them, they could not dive as deep as the Type VII classes of boats, as being smaller, and more compact could withstand the pressures of very deep dives far better than the larger boats.

In TMO the deepest reading before my boat crushed after being badly damaged, was 777ft. Then the lights flickered, and everything went black. Game over. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars.

Watching Desptination Tokyo, and most likely because it was made in the middle of the war, the orders for depth were never stated more than 150ft. Just in case the Japs might get their hands on a copy, is my thinking. But even Run Silent Run Deep, they never give the order to dive passed the rated 300ft test depth the Gato could go beyond.

And one thing to think about too, is if the subs in the different navies during WWII were not able to go beyond the red line, I'm sure the loss rates of both would have made sub ops impractical with loss rates for Germans being more than the 75% mortality rate, and the US subfleet would have had far more losses than had been realized by the end of the war even with Japan's lack of ASW tech and abilities.

MirkoS
07-31-12, 10:26 PM
Thanks.

One more question. I've started about three careers using TMO, and all save games eventually become unusable (game crashes to desktop at "find 'em, hunt 'em, sink 'em). Is this a well known problem? Possibly happening when my PC updates?

fireftr18
07-31-12, 11:51 PM
Well known problem. When you overwrite saves, you will eventually cause the save file to be corrupted. You need to save in a different file each time. I usually save in port using my name. Any subsequent save while on patrol, I number. For instance Fireftr, fireftr1, fireftr2, etc. Some also say if you save while on patrol, only do it while on the surface, during day, and with nothing in your boat's sensors range. I haven't had any problems saving while stalking a convoy or during a battle, but others said they have.

HW3
08-01-12, 07:50 AM
One thing that really plays havoc with save games is to change mods while at sea, that is a big no no. Only change mods while in port.