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mido
11-30-11, 11:09 PM
1. In SH3 it was possible to ask the weapons officer for a solution and send the data to the TDC, how can you do this in SH4 (my manual solution finding is very rusty and needs some practice).

2. When you start a career there are different options how hard you want to play, is there a description somewhere where you can see the exact details for these settings? How do the settings you set for the career interfere with the gameplay settings in the options menu?

3. When is it "save" to save a game in career mode? In SH3 one had to be out of contact of other vessels in order to save the game. Does this also apply for SH4 or can you save the game when ever you want to?

Thanks in advance

USS Drum
12-01-11, 01:01 AM
1. In SH3 it was possible to ask the weapons officer for a solution and send the data to the TDC, how can you do this in SH4 (my manual solution finding is very rusty and needs some practice).

2. When you start a career there are different options how hard you want to play, is there a description somewhere where you can see the exact details for these settings? How do the settings you set for the career interfere with the gameplay settings in the options menu?

3. When is it "save" to save a game in career mode? In SH3 one had to be out of contact of other vessels in order to save the game. Does this also apply for SH4 or can you save the game when ever you want to?

Thanks in advance



To see what settings your on click the radio on to of the shelf to your left and yes, you can save a game whenever you want.

mido
12-01-11, 07:38 AM
Thanks for your reply! But, I still don't understand the difference between the difficulty settings under in the options menu and the career setup menu. What happens if I set it to "realistic", the hardest settings in the options menu and only to hard in the career setup menu? It is not clear, what you really set in the career setup menu. You can choose between easy, normal, hard and very hard, are these settings somehow linked to the other settings in the gameplay settings in the options menu?
Please, somebody should know...

mido
12-01-11, 07:40 AM
To see what settings your on click the radio on to of the shelf to your left...

Where would I do that?

And what about the weapons officer? Let's say I play manually targeting but occasionally I would like the opinion of an officer, how can I get the enemy's ship data from a weapons officer as it was possible in SH3?

torpedobait
12-01-11, 08:27 AM
1. In SH3 it was possible to ask the weapons officer for a solution and send the data to the TDC, how can you do this in SH4 (my manual solution finding is very rusty and needs some practice).

2. When you start a career there are different options how hard you want to play, is there a description somewhere where you can see the exact details for these settings? How do the settings you set for the career interfere with the gameplay settings in the options menu?

3. When is it "save" to save a game in career mode? In SH3 one had to be out of contact of other vessels in order to save the game. Does this also apply for SH4 or can you save the game when ever you want to?

Thanks in advance

I don't do manual targeting (never liked math), but if you uncheck "Manual Targeting" in the options menu you don't need to do anything other than point the crosshairs where you want the torpedo to hit.

Options set when you open a career can and will be overridden by choices you make when you select the radio in the office prior to departure. I am not aware of any description of what the levels of difficulty actually do - I run TMO 2.2/RSRD and find "Realistic" to be challenging even without manual targeting.

It's true you can save a game anytime, but you will avoid corrupted save files if you:
1. Save more than 50 miles from a port;
2. Save only while surfaced
3. Save from the Control Room only (F2)
Some report that you should not save when any other ship is around, but I have not personally found that to be an issue with my configuration.

Hope you find this helpful, and good hunting! :salute:

mido
12-01-11, 11:19 AM
Yes, this was very helpful!

Now the only thing left is the weapons officer.

Sailor Steve
12-01-11, 11:37 AM
Sorry I got here late. No, the WE Assistance which was such a help in SH3 is gone in SH4. It's either full manual targetting or full automatic. I'm one of the ones forced to use auto, as I just can't concentrate properly to do the calculations.

mido
12-01-11, 11:54 AM
Thanks Sailor Steve, this question is out of the way too. Now I need a refreshment crash course in manual targeting again...

...and maybe I can ask here again: Where can find a good list of the most popular mods and "mega" or "super" mods?

Pilot_76
12-01-11, 12:07 PM
Look for Bag of tricks by Rockin Robbins:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

Top notch stuff.:salute::salute:

mido
12-01-11, 12:18 PM
Look for Bag of tricks by Rockin Robbins:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

Top notch stuff.:salute::salute:

Now, that's a great link. It feels like coming home to this community.

Barkhorn1x
12-01-11, 01:15 PM
Look for Bag of tricks by Rockin Robbins:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

Top notch stuff.:salute::salute:

This is great stuff.

And for those reluctant to go manual Check out the Dick O'Kane method. Historically accurate, simple, elegant and effective. And no real math, just playing with the plotting tools and lining up correctly.

Very satisfying to get 4 hits out of 4 launches on a big target.

CptChacal
12-01-11, 05:18 PM
I still can't fully understand the DOK method. I can't wrap my head around the idea that range is not important in plotting an intercept course. RR says that range "cancels out of the equation", but what equation?

Barkhorn1x
12-01-11, 06:06 PM
I still can't fully understand the DOK method. I can't wrap my head around the idea that range is not important in plotting an intercept course. RR says that range "cancels out of the equation", but what equation?

Who cares - not important - just don't worry about the range - speed of the target and accurately determining its course are key - the 10/20 degree offset take care of the rest. Here, I bolded the important parts:

1. Check TDC to ensure PK is off.

2. Set distance on the TDC manually to the largest possible amount, about 1400 yards. You do this by dragging the triangular hairline window down as far as it will go and pressing the send button (the stadimeter portion of the TDC, drag the mast height triangle as far clockwise as it will go, and press the send button). The exact distance entered is not important as distance cancels out of our targeting solution!

3. Plot two positions of your target 3 minutes apart if you are working in imperial measurements or 3 min 15 sec apart if you are working in metric. Use your ruler or compass to measure the distance. Whatever the units, the distance in yards/meters divided by 100 = speed in knots. 900 meters = 9 knots. 900 yards = 9 knots. Enter that in the TDC and press the send button.

4. It's time to aim your torpedo. We're going to set up a course at right angles to the target's track. Once we get there, our target is going to approach from the right or left. Because you know where he is and where you are, you know what's the easiest to set up. Let's say the target will pass from left to right.

4.2. Set your AoB. It will be 90º minus our shooting angle from zero, which is 10º in this case = 80º starboard (for target passing left to right) or port (for target passing right to left). Set it on the TDC and press the send button.

5. Point your periscope at bearing zero (you can do this under water to avoid detection). Now, for a high speed steam torpedo, move the scope 10º in the direction the target will come from. You will be pointing at 350 for a target coming left to right, 10º for a target moving right to left. You're shooting 10º before he gets to zero bearing. Clear? Leave the scope pointing at your planned shoot bearing and press the send range/bearing button. YOU DON"T MESS WITH THE CURSED STADIMETER! Sorry, I feel better now. Don't touch the PK either. Leave it off and save watts.

6. Guess what? Your shot is all lined up! Time to put the sub in position.

7. On your nav map, using your ruler, connect the two plotted positions and extend the line as far as seems good in the direction of the target's movement. Then with help on (open the little hand compass tool) you can use the compass rose on the ruler to measure the target's course.

5. Determine what your course will be at 90º to the track. I usually don't calculate anything. I use the protractor. Click up the track, draw the line to the point you guess will intersect with the right angle course and click a second time. Then draw the other side of the angle toward your sub. You'll see the angle at the vertex. Adjust until it says 90, make sure the line extends beside your sub and click a third time. This line is your course at right angles to the track. You can read the number using the compass rose on the ruler tool like you did earlier.

6. Take the course and get in about 700 yards from the track well before you have to shoot. No sense making this a pressure filled activity, we're all cool on this boat. Throttle down to 1 knot when you are close enough to shoot.

7. You can just sit there with the scope down listening to your sonar tech read off the bearings. When he gets to about 340, raise the scope, preset to 350. If he's coming from the other way, when he gets to about 20, raise the scope, preset to 10. Yeah, I know you're going to peek before that to make sure he doesn't get squirrely on you. That's OK, just keep periscope exposure minimal.

8. Open two or three torpedo doors (do this when you are just sitting and waiting). Your scope is pointed at your shoot bearing, not locked on the ship. Shoot torpedoes as juicy parts of the ship are in the crosshairs. That is precisely where they will hit.

9. Enjoy the results.

jcope
12-01-11, 07:19 PM
I still can't fully understand the DOK method. I can't wrap my head around the idea that range is not important in plotting an intercept course. RR says that range "cancels out of the equation", but what equation?

This is why: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1030585&postcount=9

Range matters, but you're automatically accounting for it when you fire on the fixed bearing: If the target is farther away, you are firing earlier. Because of that, the speed problem is the most critical one.

TorpX
12-01-11, 07:19 PM
I still can't fully understand the DOK method. I can't wrap my head around the idea that range is not important in plotting an intercept course. RR says that range "cancels out of the equation", but what equation?

What he means is that for a 'straight' shot (zero or near zero gyro angle), the range does indeed cancel out in the trig equations for the solution. Think of having a triangle with certain angles. If you double the length of the sides of the triangle, you do not change the measurement of the angles.

While the range 'cancelling out' is true is far as it goes, it is usually desirable to know the range and make a good plot. Otherwise, it is almost impossible to estimate the speed of the target.

Also, I think the DOK method was designed by RR to be a "quick and dirty" method; not necessarily an advanced "do it all" method. He named it in honor of Dick O'Kane. It was not actually used by O'Kane. Some are confused by this.

Barkhorn1x
12-01-11, 10:37 PM
Also, I think the DOK method was designed by RR to be a "quick and dirty" method; not necessarily an advanced "do it all" method.

Hmm...don't see why you think that is the case. It works in the majority of instances. It doesn't work against a maneuvering target like a destroyer or against remaining ships after your first salvo.

Other than that it works very well against the majority of Maru targets, very well indeed.

I'm goin' down
12-01-11, 11:10 PM
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1555836&postcount=167

TorpX
12-04-11, 09:01 PM
Hmm...don't see why you think that is the case. It works in the majority of instances. It doesn't work against a maneuvering target like a destroyer or against remaining ships after your first salvo.

Other than that it works very well against the majority of Maru targets, very well indeed.

What I meant is that RR wanted to develop a simplified method for a firing solution. That is, that one can use it without understanding all the subtleties of the TDC and the PK (the PK is 'off' is this method). This isn't a criticism of the method. It's a good way for beginners, or those who don't like a lot of math, to introduce torpedos to ships. My main point is that it is not the method used by real-life USN skippers (including O'Kane). I did not mean that the method will not work, or that it is not worthwhile.