Dutch manual Tdc

[raoul01]

Hello,

i would like to learn manual tdc but the only problem is that i m not good at english sow my question does somebody have dutch manual tdc tutorial or something?

greets.

[magic452]

Welcome to the boat mate :salute:

Your English looks pretty good to me. :up:

You might try posting in this link.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=253

If you don't have any luck come back here and we will see what we can do.
When you post give the name of the game you play, SH4 v1.4 or SH 4 V1.5 with Uboats. Also give any mods you are running. TMO or RFB, etc.

Magic

[Daniel Prates]

the only problem is that i m not good at english
greets.

Are you kidding? Poor english is mandatory for sailors.

Arrrrr, me sweeties? There'be dutch mateys on the deck, captn'!

Welcome aboard.

[raoul01]

Ty magic,

I play now sh4 1.4 patch with out any mods like TMO or RFB.
TMO means trigger maru Overhaul right?
I could'nt find it for 1.4 patch and i dont know what it does.

But thank you magic.

[magic452]

Once you get into the game you will no doubt want to upgrade to V1.5
The new TMO 2.1 mod is for V1.5. So is RFB.

There is a 1.4 TMO available but I don't know where it is anymore.

Good luck and good hunting.

Magic

[raoul01]

oke ty.
you need to pay for 1.5 right?

[magic452]

Yes but it is very much worth the extra cost.

Magic

[Daniel Prates]

Yes but it is very much worth the extra cost.

Magic

I second this remark. Even un-modded, 'u-boat missions' is a great refreshment.

[raoul01]

where xan you buy it?

[Daniel Prates]

I particularly like gamers gate.

[raoul01]

:damn:but i still don't have a tdc tutorial(Dutch) and they dont help me on the forum.

[Daniel Prates]

Ok, let's try this in small steps.

FIRST: does it absolutely have to be in dutch? There is a simple tutorial in youtube, that, although in english, basically shows the essential in manual targeting with images and is very easy to understand (I suppose, in all languages since it is very visual). It uses the 'torpedo attack' mission on 'submarine school', so you can try it yourself step by step.

Here. Watch it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

... and then comment if it was any help.

You should have no problem. Although here in the forum there are lots of different methods (which are usually for most extreme situations, like shooting from very far etc), the basic procedure is this:

1 - Turn on the position keeper (red button on lower right).

2 - identify your target. Click on the 'ok' button in the recognition manual.

3 - It's mast will be informed directly to the TDC when you do it. Click the 'stadimeter' button.

4 - A doubled image of the ship will appear in the periscope. Match the top mast of the clear (stoped) image, with the bottom of the movable image. THis will send height to the TDC.

5 - Go to Angle of the Bow (AOB) dial and direct the target in the same interception angle that it is. In the sample mission it is exactelly 90 degrees to the right.

6 - Go back again to the stadimeter and take a second distance measurement.

7 - Go the the last dial on the TDC input interface, which assesses speed. Click on the 'estimate' button. If you had taken two distance measurements, and an angle on the bow esitmate, this last resource calculates the speed of the target. In the scenario it is 9 knots.

8 - Remember, everytime you take an estimate, you have to click the red button - "send data to TDC".

That's it. The torpedo will be automaticaly guided to the targed if you did things right. Just practice until you get it right.

[magic452]

Well let's see what we can do. Daniel Prates give some good advice above but we need to know a few things.

Are you playing stock SH4 V1.4? I assume you are.
Next are you playing with "Map Contacts" on or off?
This makes a big difference in how we can help you.
Have you played SH3?

Do you have Radar on your boat, makes things much easier if you do.

The Torpedo Training Mission is not all that good for learning how to do manual targeting because you are too close to the target to start with.
A much better way is to start one of the War Patrols such as Cloak and Dagger. This gives you a boat with radar and 10 good torpedoes.

Do not worry about the mission, all you want to do is find a good target to work with. Plot a course up the Makassar Strait, through the Celebes and Sulu Seas and up to Manila in the Philippines and towards the Luzon Strait.
You are sure to find a single ship there or along the way. When you do save the game as soon as you get a target. You can reload the save and get some manual targeting practice.

As soon as you see a radar target watch it for a few seconds and you will see it jump forward, as soon as it does mark an X on the target and start the stop watch wait 3 minutes (for English) or 3 minutes and 15 seconds for metric. Measure the distance between the Xs and that distance is the target speed. 500 yards or meters = 5 knots 1000 yards or meters = 10 knots. etc. Do this three times and you will have a very accurate speed.
Extent the line from all the Xs and this will give you the target course as well.

You can than plot a course for your boat to intercept the target course and get into a good firing position about 1,000 yards or meters off the target course and about 90° to it's course. This will make firing the torpedoes much easier.

You already have a good target speed and using the protractor tool can find the AoB or you can estimate it off the map and correct AoB as the target comes closer.

You can see all this in the video that Danial Pirates linked to.

First turn on the Position Keeper PK, that is the red button at the bottom of the left set of dials. This will keep updating the firing solution as you input data.

To set speed turn the speed dial to the speed you got from your earlier measurements and click the send to TDC button, the red triangle at the top of the dial. The speed will show up on the left dials.

AoB is the angle off the bow of the target as it would see your boat.
Just turn the AoB dial till it looks like what you see in the periscope. Click the red triangle at the top to send to the TDC. You will see the ship symbol in the upper left dial turn and it will look like the ship in the right AoB dial. It does not have to be perfect just close at this time.

Once the target is close enough to see clearly you must identify it and find it in the recognition manual. Click the bar where it says Japan and it will say Merchants if that is what you are shooting. Find the right ship and click the check mark. This sends the mast height to the Steadimeter.
Go to the range dial and click the little round button to turn on the Steadimeter. Bring it down until the water line of the top ship just touches the top of the mast of the lower ship. This will give you range and bearing to the target. Send this to the TDC, the red triangle, click this twice and you will see the dials on the left move showing the firing solution.

Go to the attack map and you will see the firing solution there. The white X is the torpedo impact point if you fired now. the X should be on or very close to the target ship symbol and stay there over time. If it is not you need to correct some of the data you used.

Manual targeting is not really that hard but it looks like it is at first.
It should not take you long to learn how to do it.

Hope all this helps and if it does not than post any problems you are having and someone will try to help.

Magic

[raoul01]

thank you daniel and magic,

i will try when i can because at this moment i dont have a pc to try it on( i use my wii to type this)

magic:
i only have sh4 1.4
and i need to look in sh4 for map contact on/of,
and i havent play sh3

[Daniel Prates]

:salute:

[raoul01]

i finaly could try it but i do something wrong in the traing mission my torp is going to far to the left plss help.

[magic452]

i finaly could try it but i do something wrong in the traing mission my torp is going to far to the left plss help.

OK we are in business. :up:

I'll start from the beginning.

1) go to the periscope screen and open all three gray tabs, 2 on the right and 1 one the left.
Bottom right is your torpedo tubes. Click each tube in order and hit the "Q" key this opens your tube doors, one of the reasons for torpedoes to miss to the left or behind the target is not opening the doors.

Top right is the Data Entry dials. There are 3 buttons at the bottom,
Left to right they are "range", AoB and "Speed"

The one on the left is the TDC dials. Top dial shows the target and the bottom one is your boat. When you input data to the TDC you should see these dials move or the speed displayed in Knots and range in meters or yards depending on what you use.
On the bottom there is a red button that says "GSP" that turns on the Position Keeper or the PK. turn it on now. The PK updates your firing solution as yo input data and keeps updating til you fire your fish.

If you click the button on the bottom right it will switch to the torpedo settings. The middle dial is "Gyro offset" don't worry about that right now.
The bottom dial sets the running depth of the torpedo. Set the top buttons to Fast and contact. Set depth to 6 feet or 2 meters which ever you play. It's early war and the MK14 torpedo runs deeper than set.

2) Find the target and lock the periscope on it with the "L" key.
The target is a Mogami cruiser.
The "N" key will open the "sighting guide" click Japan and find the Mogami
click the check mark on the top left to send mast high to the TDC. This is needed to get range.

3) Go to the Data entry and click the Speed button, turn the dial to 9 Knots and on the top there is a red box with an arrow, click this button to send speed to the TDC you should see 9 in the speed box. I'll Explain how we get the 9 knots later. This may be why you missed behind the target.

4) Next we will set the AoB. The target is going from left to right so we want a Starboard reading, turn the dial until it looks more or less like what you see in the scope. It should be about 6 on the dial (60°) We will check this in a minute. Click the send AoB button at the top, the triangle, to send AoB to the TDC. You will see the top dial on the left side turn when you do this, the ship icon will look like the one on the right side dial you just set.

5) We need range and bearing to the target. The scope is locked on the target so what ever the bearing ring at the top says is the bearing.
To get range we will use the Steadimeter.

Click the first button on the bottom to the range dial. At the top there is a little round button, click it and you will see a second ship above the the real target ship. As you drag your mouse the second ship will move. Drag it down until the water line of it just touches the top of the real ship's mast. This is what gets you range to the target. release the mouse button and go to the triangle button and click it twice. This sends range and bearing to the TDC and you will see the range in the box also the your ship dial will also turn.

6) Next we will check the firing solution. Go to the Attack Map.
You will see a red ship icon for the target, (in stock game). There will also be a white X and a white line. There will also be a green line showing the path the torpedo will take, it may have a curve in it, that is normal.
The white X should be right on the target or very close to it. The white line should match the target's course or the direction the ship is headed.
If it isn't you will need to correct your data. If the X is too long or too short take a new range reading with the steadimeter. If the X doesn't stay with the target but moves ahead or falls behind than the speed is wrong.
If the white line doesn't point the same as the target adjust the AoB until it does. At this short range a little AoB error is OK. When you get the X to stay on target you are set to fire.

It takes a lot of practice to do all this but after four or five tries you will begin to see how it all works and get much faster doing it. The Steadimeter is the hardest thing to use. There are mods that will make this easier. Ship Centered Accuracy Fix by Capn Scurvy. I think there is still a 1.4 version available someplace.

The one thing I didn't cover is the most important one. SPEED.
How did I get 9 knots. That is a long story. There are two ways to get speed The first one is not very good as far as I'm concerned. The game will figure it out for you if you take two GOOD steadimeter readings a minute or so apart. There is a little clocl button on the speed dial, click it and than take a steadimeter reading, wait a minute and take another steadimeter reading. Click the little clock and you will get a course and speed from the game. This only works if you get two GOOD readings.
I never use this but some people do.

The best way to get speed with map contacts on is to use the three minute rule. As soon as you get a target on the Navigation map take your pencil and mark an X, have the stopwatch (X key) open. Start the watch as soon as you mark the X. Wait three minutes (3 min 15 sec. for metric)
and mark another X at the new location of the target. Take the ruler and measure the distance between the two Xs and that distance will give you the speed. 100 yards/meters = 1 knot, 500 yards = 5 knots, 1000 yards = 10 knots, etc. This is a very accurate speed if you do it three times.

Take your ruler and draw a line through all the Xs and you have a very good plot for the ships course. Very valuable information for figuring out how to intercept a ship or convoy and also you can get a very good AoB by measuring the angle from the target to your boat. If you know where your target is going you can get into a good firing position.

This all sounds like a lot and it is but with a some practice you will soon get it. Load up the training mission and save it so you can repeat it without loading the whole mission every time. The training mission is not so good as you are too close to the target to get all this done in one pass.
The first time you try just try to get a the speed and course. Make note of the speed and use the tool helper with the ruler and you can get the course in degrees. This will be very helpful later in getting AoB dead on the first time.

Hope all this helps and if you don't get it all I'll try to explain it a different way. Watch that video and you'll see how to do some of this stuff, will be more than happy to help you out. :yeah:

Magic

[raoul01]

thank you magic,

i m going to paste it in word and print it easyer for me.
i tell you when something is wrong.

greeting Raoul

[magic452]

Glad to help you my friend :salute: if anything more comes up let us know.

Magic

[Bakkels]

Als je een gedeelte van zijn verhaal niet begrijpt, moet je het even zeggen of mij een PM sturen. Dan kan ik het vertalen voor je :03:

I was just saying to Raoul that if he didn't get some parts of Magic452's explanation, he should let me know, then I will translate. As I am also Dutch. ...And bored apparently :O: Sure hope he doesn't let me translate the entire text :DL

[raoul01]

finaly it did work with training mission only problem is now the speed.

[magic452]

finaly it did work with training mission only problem is now the speed.

The problem with the training mission is that you are too close, so don't worry about setting up a shot just mark the target icon as soon as you can and wait the three minutes or three and a 15 sec for metric and mark it again. The distance between marks is the speed. as I mentioned.
X- -------3 minutes ---------X----------3 minutes-------X
|---------900 ----------------| ----------1800------------X
..........that = 9 knots. .....................Still 9 knots.
I do this three times so I have a very good speed and by connection all the Xs will also get the target's course very close.

You have visual contact with the target so it moves as in real time.
With radar or sonar contacts you will see the target jump, when it jumps that is when you mark the X and start and stop the stopwatch.
Radar jumps (is updated) every 20 seconds, Sonar every 30 seconds.

@ Bakkles my Dutch = 0 English is only about 80% as well.
Thanks for the offer.

Magic

[Bakkels]

Lol, no the first part of that post I was talking to Raoul. I meant if Raoul needed parts of your text translated from English to Dutch, I could do that for him. :03:

[magic452]

Lol, no the first part of that post I was talking to Raoul. I meant if Raoul needed parts of your text translated from English to Dutch, I could do that for him. :03:

See I told you my English wasn't so hot. :haha:
Looks like he is making progress, hope so.

Magic

[raoul01]

oke ty magic but the problem is still the speed because if the ship goes in 3 min 600 meter what is the speed than? how do you calculate that?
and is 900 knt to much? :)

[magic452]

The speed will be the distance divided by 100. 600 meters would be 6 knots.

100 meters = 1 knot, 500 meters = 5 knots, 1000 m = 10 knots, etc.
Use 3 min. 15 sec. for metric.

100 yards = 1 kn., 500 yards = 5 kn. 1000 yards = 10 kn.
Use 3 minutes for US.

If you take three 3 minute measurements in a row that would be 2,700 divided by (100x3) 300 = 9 knots
X........3 min.........X..........3 min.........X......3 min..........X
|.......900 yards.....|.........1800 yards...|.....2700 yards....|

If the distance for each measurement is 1200 yards than the speed will be 12 knots.
|.......1200............|.........2400...........| .....3600.............| = 12knots.

If you get a distance of say 1050 yards that would be 10.5 knots and the game does have fractional speeds in it. That is why I take three measurements. Three gives you the more accurate speed needed for very long shots. The game readouts for speed and degrees will be whole numbers but the game will use the fractional speeds or degrees you set on the dials, any of the dials.

I corrected my earlier post I had 900 knots and should have been 9 knots the second time. :damn: :damn:

Magic

[raoul01]

ty magic i did know that it should be 9 knt just a joke.
i have a nother questiondo you make mods?

[magic452]

No I don't make mods, I can't even get 9 Knots right. :wah: :oops: :D
But I sure do use them.

TiggerMaru_overhaul_2.0. Sooo much better than stock, a new game almost.
TMO_20_Bata_update
TMO_sub_textures_fooskin
MaxOpticIV for TMO_2 My eyesight not so good this helps and I like the look of the scope and the Orders bar on the bottom of the screen.

SCAF for TMO_2 Much easier to use the Steadimeter with this.
Map Labels 1.3
Webster's Better air patrols Not so many planes, I hate planes.

3D TDC and Radar Range Unit v1.02 This is a great mod for the TDC and Radar. Makes TDC input much more accurate and you can get manual radar range. Takes some doing to learn this but it's worth it especially if you are doing more advanced manual targeting and long range shots.

Eaxsound_without_WebstersMaueuver_TMO19 Love the deck gun sounds.
Damage_caused_by_fire_TheDarkWraith_1_2
TDW_Ship_Plane_fire_damage_v1_3_SH4

Sometimes just for fun when I want to sink a lot of ships I'll use one of these.
WEBSTER's Imporved US Torpedo Power v1 (v2 & v3 available each with more power) With v3 one torpedo will sink darn near anything.

Magic

[Daniel Prates]

Raoul, if you are still not getting it right, try making it sure that you INPUT the data on the TDC. I could bet that is where you are going wrong. EVERYTIME you take an measurement, you must click "send data to the TDC", otherwise the TDC will not compute that information and the final firing solution will come out wrong.

A thing you should know about this training mission: the target IS at 9 knots. Try different methods, in other words, TRAIN. When your method sudenly starts giving you the 9 knots result, you know you got it right.

[raoul01]

magic you have sh4 1.5 i think i only use Tmo you know from list you did make i think.
furter i dont know what to use for sh4 1.4.

and daniel i think that i did forget to do it the first time but ty both, in the training after that i did sunk the heavy cruiser, did try to get sampan the did'nt hit but it was very close.

[magic452]

magic you have sh4 1.5 i think i only use Tmo you know from list you did make i think.
furter i dont know what to use for sh4 1.4.

Yes I'm using 1.5 but check out this link
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=157853
There are V1.4 mods listed there and at least some of the links work.
TMO does. This is a much older TMO but it is still pretty good, much better than stock.

Magic

[raoul01]

I already have that list.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=184196
and then only the Tmo line what do i need more.

[TorpX]

Anyone who is having trouble with the TDC or manual targeting should get a decent training mission compatable with their mods/game. The stock training mission is basically useless. It permits no time for successive observations or tactical evaluation or maneuver. It's very hard to learn anything this way. If you have time, you could check the operation of the TDC and evaluate the data outputs.

[magic452]

Your options for V1.4 are pretty limited, if you like the game I would suggest upgrading to 1.5 All the new mods are for it.

Manual targeting is pretty easy once you get the basics down, plotting a good course and speed for the target and getting yourself into a good firing position. The hardest thing is using the steadimeter and if you get within 1500 yards it's not that bad. SCAF helps this quit a bit as far as I'm concerned, not the most realistic but I like it.

Start a patrol in 43 or 44 when you have radar and get yourself some training time.
What TropX says is very much true.
Magic

[raoul01]

i dont know what he realy means sry. but the add-on is hard to find in shops and i dont like the internet.

[magic452]

i dont know what he realy means sry. but the add-on is hard to find in shops and i dont like the internet.

If you have something like Amazon.com they have the disk version there.
Sh4 Gold Edition, U boat missions v1.5. I've had good luck with Amazon.com.

The stock training mission just sucks, you're too close to get any training at all, that is why I suggested doing one of the single war patrols in 43 or 44,
Wounded Bear or Hellcat. Consider it a training mission. Don't really do the mission just find something to shoot, save at that point and get some target practice.

Magic

[raoul01]

oke ty i did already try it but because all the missions start in the darkk and then i cant see the ships.

[raoul01]

is there maybe a mod sow i can see them better?

[Daniel Prates]

Anyone who is having trouble with the TDC or manual targeting should get a decent training mission compatable with their mods/game. The stock training mission is basically useless. It permits no time for successive observations or tactical evaluation or maneuver. It's very hard to learn anything this way. If you have time, you could check the operation of the TDC and evaluate the data outputs.

Maybe so, but it is the only one available so far, that we all have and share and can thus use to illustrate.

Maybe some mission could be designed and posted with comentaries. A sort of a "subsim walkthrough".

[magic452]

is there maybe a mod sow i can see them better?

You don't need to see all that well, you got sonar and radar for that. Edit no radar yet.
Just start one "Wounded Bear" for example, it will be several days before you get to a position to find anything, go to the Luzon Strait and work your way down the towards Manila, you sure to find something there. Stay about 30 miles off the coast. It's a training mission so don't worry about finding the carrier. But if you do want a carrier go to 121° 30' east and 8° 30' north, be there before 8 Sept 42. the carrier will come up from the south through the eastern gap in the island chain and around the western point of the Mindanao and into the Sulu Sea.

Magic

[raoul01]

oke thank you but i dont know how the sonar and radar works and dont you need to know what kind of ship it is?

[magic452]

You have a sonar man he will report contacts for you and you will see sonar lines to show where the target is. Go to the torpedo training mission and leave the scope down and you will soon see the sonar line pointing to the target.
Radar works the same way when you get it.

With map contacts on these are good enough to plot a the course for target and you can intercept it and get into a good firing position. Once there then you will be able to see it good enough to identify it when it gets close enough to set up a firing solution. Also it might be bright daylight when you find a target.

I think in the version of TMO you're playing there is an "Identify target" button on the periscope orders bar. There is in the newer ones.

Magic

[raoul01]

oh really didnt know that i did just start sh4 for wounded bear now i need to quit it and start tmo again:)

[magic452]

No you can continue the patrol. When you get close enough to a target the sonar man will report it to you and you will see the sonar lines.

When you get to the position I mentioned save the game, you may have to replay it a few times to find the carrier, if you don't find it the first time just change your patrol pattern. You have plenty of time to get there and you may find something else on the way.
If you have just the stock 1.4 game loaded the lines will be blue, in 1.4 version of TMO they will be black.
Once you get the sonar lines just mark the end with an X and wait three minutes and mark it again to plot a course.

Magic

Edit A much better position to be in is 121° 30' east long. 7° north lat. This is a little more south than I said before. Right at the choke point in the small islands.
Get there quickly but you may have to wait a couple of days as the TF has several different paths to take. The date I gave you Sept 8 was for something else, try to be there by June 8.

[magic452]

If you don't find the carrier there is lots of traffic on the area and if you move a little bit east you may find this on the night of the 22nd.
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt296/Magic452/WoundedBear3.jpg

So this isn't a bad place to get some target practice.

Magic

[raoul01]

where is it?

[magic452]

121° 30' east long. 7° 30' north lat.
Just west of Mindanao, in the Sulu Sea.
That's where the 4 X are marked on the map, you'll want to be another 10 or so miles east of the X's I was in the wrong place and missed them. They are moving form north to south at almost a 180° heading.

There is also a big troop transport that comes the same way on the 9th with two escorts. Plenty of target practice in that area.
Some single ships as well. When you get there save the game and you can replay to make sure you get some good targets.

You have to get there really fast, full speed all the way to be on time.
You'll use a lot of fuel but no matter this is just a training mission.

Did you load up TMO?

Magic

[raoul01]

can you place a map because i dont know how to use coordinates. :)

[raoul01]

that picture i did make hin yesterday a few min. later a plane did bomb me and destroyet my periscope so i did quit the mission.... :)

[Daniel Prates]

Geez Magic, you have memorized all of the pacific's traffic history for the first half of the 1940s?

That screenshot with the sonar contacts on the taskforce is just great. Permission to use it as my wallpaper for a while, captn'?

[magic452]

Geez Magic, you have memorized all of the pacific's traffic history for the first half of the 1940s?

That screenshot with the sonar contacts on the taskforce is just great. Permission to use it as my wallpaper for a while, captn'?

Sure go ahead but I would feel better if I had actually gotten off a few torpedoes. :damn: :haha: :haha:
That's from the stock game I loaded up to help raoul01, don't play that way, stock sucks big time.

Magic

[magic452]

that picture i did make hin yesterday a few min. later a plane did bomb me and destroyet my periscope so i did quit the mission.... :)

There are 360° in the circle of earth around the center (east & west)and also from pole to pole (north & south) Those are the lines you see on your map.
The ones along the sides of the screen are lines of Latitude. 0° is at the equator and the poles are 180° They go 0° to 180° north to the north pole and to 180° south to that pole. The Equator is a red line 0° Lat.
Japan is on the north side of the Equator. So are you. :D Australia is south.

The lines running from top to bottom are lines of longitude.
For our game think of it as 180° longitude is near Midway Island, the numbers go from there East and West. 170 east |--------180°--------| 170 west. That is why Midway is called Midway, Its Half way around the world form 0 degrees longitude which is in England. It is also about half way between the USA and Japan, etc.

Japan is on the east side of that 180° line. Pearl Harbor on the west side.
There are a set on numbers across the top of the screen. These are longitude in degrees.

The coordinates I gave you were 121° 30' east longitude and 7° 30' north latitude. That reads 120 degrees 30 minutes east longitude (Long.) and 7 degrees 30 minutes north latitude. (Lat.) There are 30 minutes in one degree of both Long. and Lat.

Zoom in your map on the Sulu Sea and you will see what I posted. The interesting lines near the 4 X's are 121° 30' east and 7° 0' north.
You can go off the shallow (white) water area just west of the point on Mindanao.

Geography classes are $0.50 each. I will expect a check. :hmmm: :D

Magic

[raoul01]

srry it is to hard for me, yesterday i did do a campain sow i know now where zulu sea is now.

[magic452]

Your getting there I saw your other post. :yeah: :salute:

Here are some maps that may help
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsXKTuudtrpZ5sB2wcILUDm6X4wW9yv mPpuJAow93fLOW0H8lmFQ
Australia Is at about 30° south(-30 on the this map) and 120 to 150° east.
Japan is about 30° north (+30) and about 120° east.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwWwHXx3d8nG6XGLW0F-qwafB5s7YmPwTDqWc6by20Z0moFCv38A

The red lines show how to use Long and Lat. The coordinates for the lines are about 26° north Lat. 100° west Long. Not a good enough picture to get any closer than about those numbers.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYVqpzYCM55aVWx2ZTSvlMJMqxlpibl 6E_SFpr_Aw4GhEYsbsWCg

Magic

[raoul01]

Oke ty magic,

can you help me with something different i would like to have a link of a website where i can buy sh4 u-boat mission but i would like to pay with ideal.
can you help?

[magic452]

Most of the big retail stores here in the States have web sites and you can find out if they have an item in stock at a local store, might try that.

I don't know what Ideal is. I always use a credit card when I trust the on line store. Amazon may accept Pay Pal but you need a checking account or credit card as far as I know.

Sorry I can't be more help, :cry: maybe someone in your area can help.

Magic

[raoul01]

probely i nead to make a new topic about it, i think.
thank you magic you did help me a lot.