Putting her down to bed? possible?

[commandosolo2009]

Hello skippers,

I wanted to know since its been on numerous movies, like Das Boot, Down Periscope,and the idea itself seems logic, yet risky. Is it possible to put the boat down to seabed? like park it?


http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd414/Perch176/seabedding_edited-1.jpg


and if so, how to do it? and would it fool the ASDIC on jap destroyers say 100 meters above? ( I did a test depth for my boat, at 115~120 meters, she cracked.)

Whats the standard procedure, and how to move afterwards? and is there a name for this tactic? Thanks.

[Platapus]

1. One of the concerns is that the bottom of the ocean is not always flat. So finding a flat spot might be a bit hard.

2. Subs are pointy at the bottom so when it is resting on the bottom it will tilt a bit and the weight of the sub may be supported by structures not designed to support the weight MBT and FBTs for example

3. Your Ultrasonic sonar people will be very angry.

4. I don't know the state of sonar knowledge we had in WWII, but the sound returns from natural ocean bottoms and a nice metal sub are different. Whether we or the Japanese knew that in WWII, I don't know. So active sonar may be able to find you. A US submarine's length is pretty close to its max depth. Gatos were 311 feet long and its test depth was 300 feet. I think it would be more efficient to avoid sonar by moving and changing the orientation of the sub. Sitting on the bottom you are presenting a non moving aspect.

5. Hydrophones won't find you as you will be stopped. Unless the current is grinding your metal submarine across rocks/coral that is.

6. There are valves at the bottom of the submarine that may not like taking a mud bath.

I don't think that sitting on the bottom would have all that much advantage. And worst of all, if you are at the bottom, and you are found out, the enemy knows exactly what depth to drop depth charges and that will ruin your day.

The defensive options for a submarine are the ability to change depth and move. You are giving up both when you sit on the bottom.

And besides, when on the bottom, with the sub tilted, where is the captain supposed to put his ubiquitous cup of coffee???????

You gots to think about this important stuff ya know! :yep::yep:
:D

[Armistead]

I'll stick to in game issues that I know. Regardless if you're moving or not, sitting stopped on the bottom will cause damage in the game. The faster you go, the more damaged caused. Usually it's bulkhead damage.

You get no bonus for sitting stopped on the bottom when it comes to reflecting back enemy sonar sound, they pick you up like there is no bottom.

Usually, you're gonna get killed. DD's tend to drop right on top of you, moreso with TMO, speed is you friend when DD's make runs.

However, they're are times it can be helpful. If I'm in an out of control dive and can reach shallow enough water, I would rather hit bottom than head for the deep. It can buy you a lot of time to repair, vs the little time going into the depths, best not to move until a DD makes a run.

I don't know how it works in game, but it seems to work for me, but you need cams on for the most part until you learn where it works. Find a shelf where it goes from shallow to deep, they exist around ports. I like sitting off the shelf where it may drop from 50 to 200 ft in a matter of yards. This seems to confuse DD's. I use one at Singy, another near the Bungo, and a few other port. Seem the DD's have a hard time setting correct depth and charges drop shallow.

Some use glitches to sit on the bottom without damage...but I call that cheating

[Sailor Steve]

In December 1941 USS S-38 escaped pusuing Japanese destroyers by sitting on the bottom several times. It seems the sandy bottom does indeed make the sub harder to find, and it absorbs the concussion when the depth charge explodes.
http://www.historycentral.com/navy/Submarine/s38.html

But no, none of this works in the game.

[commandosolo2009]

its a shame it doesnt,:dead: cuz that wouldve been a great tactic and would have given skippers an extra option. Read the S38 article now. What a skipper!

[Sailor Steve]

In Aces of the Deep, back in 1994, you could ground your u-boat, and sometimes it worked. On the other hand, they made it so you could get stuck in the mud. One time I lost boat and crew when the air ran out, and after that, if I didn't get free right away I would really start to panic. I've never heard of that happening in real life, but in the game it was pretty awesome! :rock:

[TorpX]

I tried it several times in SHCE. Usually, they located me easily and I was killed. When I played the Lingayen Gulf mission, I would sometimes hide under anchored ships or ground in the shallows. :haha: This would create problems for the DD's. I decided it was best viewed as a last resort tactic. From what I've read, bottoming doesn't usually interfere with echo ranging, but going close inshore, makes it harder for their hydrophones to hear you as they pick up noise from the waves breaking on the shore.

[Elektroniikka-Asentaja]

I would sometimes hide under anchored ships or ground in the shallows.

I've done this in convoy attacks, just go hide under a merchant and let escorts circle around :haha: My original idea was to make DD's destroy themselves by crashing into heavier merchants but apparently IJN skippers had brakes :damn:

Happy hunting (or sneaking under prey) :salute:

[Takao]

Agreed, this tactic does not work in the game, the game mechanics are not set up to let you take advantage of this tactic. I've tried it, and came away with a badly damaged boat to show for it.

Back in real life, it was an acceptable tactic. Another US submarine that used the tactic successfully was the USS Crevalle(SS-291). On her third war patrol, the USS Crevalle torpedoed and sank the Nisshin Maru, but was damaged by Japanese depth charges. In an effort to throw off her persuers, the captain 'bottomed the boat.' As a result the Japanese could not find her with active nor passive sonar. Shortly after losing contact, the Japanese started using grappling hooks and dragging them along the bottom. One hook actually snagged the Cravalle and began dragging her along the bottom. The submarine was still in relatively neutral buoyancy and was easily pulled along, luckily in the direction of deeper water. The Japanese, thankfully, remained oblivious to the fact that they had hooked the submarine, and, after a short "ride", the captain restarted the boat's electric motors, broke free of her "tow" and snuck away into deeper water.

This is covered in more detail in the book "War in the Boats" by Captain William J. Ruhe, USN(retired), an officer who served aboard the USS Crevalle, for her first 5 War Patrols.

[WH4K]

I wondered whether the Darter's hulk might be visible on Google Earth. Lots of smaller things are; at 300+ ft, the Darter should show up.

No dice. Google Maps/Earth has only the blurry "open ocean" imagery in that location, although someone put the coordinates in the Darter Wikipedia article: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=9.406,116.984&spn=0.3,0.3&t=h&q=9.406,116.984

However, there's a pretty good (if old) photo on this page, recounting some US Navy guys visiting the Darter's wreck in the 1960's:
http://www.submarinesailor.com/Boats/SS227Darter/DarterWreckage1965.htm

Apparently, there wasn't much left even then:
http://en.valka.cz/files/ss_227_uss_darter___1998_a.jpg

[commandosolo2009]

so, is it also a bottom feeder? :D

[subskipper53]

so, is it also a bottom feeder? :D


LOL.

[Rip]

In Aces of the Deep, back in 1994, you could ground your u-boat, and sometimes it worked. On the other hand, they made it so you could get stuck in the mud. One time I lost boat and crew when the air ran out, and after that, if I didn't get free right away I would really start to panic. I've never heard of that happening in real life, but in the game it was pretty awesome! :rock:

I don't know of any that got stuck on bottom and suffocated, I guess we would assume they were destroyed by DCs. I know of several that got stuck on bottom and had to go through a lot of rocking and rolling and shifting engines to get free. Oh how I wish we could and that we could move ballast around and selectively blow certain ballast tanks. Now that would rock.

Rip

[commandosolo2009]

Hey thanks!

Another thing I wanted to ask about: If I'm at a depth of 85 meters, from a historic and realistic point of view, since I play 100% realism, should the periscope be brought up? I meant as in looking thru it from 85 meters? Would it damage anything? and will the boat in real life be affected? And what was the operational depth for periscopes in fleet boats?

Again Thanks

[Rip]

In the game it doesn't matter. you can raise it at test depth/flank speed without damage. If it is light enough you may even be able to see things like mines.

IRL there as a seal that would leak and take damage at high speed and the scope would vibrate to the point of being useless. The max usable speed is around 3kts but varied some as modifications to the shears during the war. Typically they would raise it somewhere between 50 meters and the surface and rotate looking to the surface for shadows or any sight of danger. Upon breaking the surface the man on the scope would call out that it was breaking the surface and when it was clear. This gave the diving officer verification of his depth indication. He would then scan 360 in low power quickly announces whether there were any close contacts. The a high power sweep and reports of ANY contacts.

Rip

[commandosolo2009]

wow thats hardcore dude!!! gimme some!!! thanks :yeah: