Battle of Leyte Gulf was raging 66 years ago today.

[Bubblehead1980]

Busy weekend, realized earlier I forgot that the 66th anniversary of the Leyte Gulf battle and other actions is here.I was reminded because my current patrol in TMO RSRD is in October 1944, I plan on trying to get in on some of the action when the time comes.

Leyte Gulf has always been one of the more interesting battles to me, mainly because so much was on the line and it was so large and prolonged.

Thoughts? Info? etc, Share.

[Armistead]

Yea, you're right. Probably one of the most interesting battles yet. The battle of who made the less mistakes. One must always chuckle over the
message sent to Halsey, the famous "the world wonders" It was never meant to be a slam, just code...and nothing beats the action of the DD's
Sure you all know the story of Cap. Evans of the Johnson. The message was

"TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE THIRTY FOUR RR THE WORLD WONDERS [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Tuohy-2)

The words before the first 'GG' and after the last 'RR' are padding added to make cryptanalysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis) more difficult.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Tuohy-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Thomas-3) The first paragraph, the material between 'GG' and 'X', is routing and classification information, metadata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata_(computing)) for the message itself.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Tuohy-2) While decrypting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decrypt) and transcribing the message, Halsey's radio officer properly removed the leading phrase, but the trailing phrase looked appropriate and he seems to have thought it was intended and so left it in before passing it on to Halsey,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-FDR-0) who read it as
“Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four? The world wonders.
”
The structure tagging (the 'RR's) should have made clear that the phrase was in fact padding. In all the ships and stations that received the message, only New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Jersey_(BB-62))'s communicators failed to delete both padding phrases.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Potter-4)
The message (and its trailing padding) became famous, and created some ill feeling, since it appeared to be a harsh criticism by Nimitz of Halsey's decision to pursue the carriers and leave the landings uncovered. "I was stunned as if I had been struck in the face" Halsey later recalled.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Thomas-3) "The paper rattled in my hands, I snatched off my cap, threw it on the deck, and shouted something I am ashamed to remember"[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Thomas-3) and let out an anguished sob.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Thomas-3) Regarding the message as an open humiliation, he delayed for an hour - saying he was refueling - before turning around with his two fastest battleships along with three light cruisers and eight destroyers.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-Miller-5)
The padding phrase may have been inspired by both a sense of history and a knowledge of poetry. The day the message was sent was the 90th anniversary of the Charge of the Light Brigade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade) in the Battle of Balaclava (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Balaclava).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders#cite_note-FDR-0) A famous poem about this charge was written by Tennyson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Tennyson,_1st_Baron_Tennyson), and contained the stanza:
“Flashéd all their sabers bare,
Flashéd as they turned in air,
Sab'ring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wondered."

[WernherVonTrapp]

Leyte Gulf, largest naval battle in the history of mankind. Another interesting tid-bit, at the time of the Leyte Gulf battle, the United States Pacific Fleet was larger than the navies of all the warring nations, combined.:o

[Armistead]

I have a bad feeling that in 20 years or less a good portion of our fleet will be rusting in dock like the USSR.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I have a bad feeling that in 20 years or less I'd choose, "or less". At the rate of the Obama administration's spending habits, our country should be bankrupt in about 10 years. A trillion for healthcare, a trillion for economic stimulus, a trillion for the war in Afghanistan: Where does he think this money is going to come from?:o
We've been borrowing it all from the Chinese too! No, I've long believed that he has had a hidden agenda to destroy this country through the one and most significant strength we have, our economy. Let's face it, when Wall Street hiccups, it sends shock waves around the entire world.

[Armistead]

Well, the leading teaching of progressive socialist liberals is capitalism can only end by bringing on fiscal chao's. Their stated goals are you first create so much debt that the system crumbles. Once this is done, it can then be corrected with socialism.

Now, doe's Obama believe that...who knows, but his mentor's sure did. Still, the GOP seems to do the same thing.

Just think, right now we owe over 60 trillion dollars to SS and medicare alone for those paid into it. That's more money in all banks and stock markets in the world. No matter what they say both programs are doomed.
My guess is they will keep raising the retirement rate so the program appears to be there, few get to use it long. Medicare will have to go, can't be substained.

We have to face one thing. We will spend trillions to keep the elderly alive for a few more years. This is the big issue. I know no one wants to kill off the elderly, but using medicine to keep prolonging life will bankrupt us until no one can afford healthcare..already has. Fact is this must stop.

The next crisis is the youth of today, 40% obese. We have the first generation that has a lower life expectancy than the former. They will be the generation of terrible chronic disease in a time when healthcare will be unavailable. I think Trump is out there, but I do agree with him we will be a two class society of 10% rich, 90% in poverty.

[WernherVonTrapp]

We have to face one thing. We will spend trillions to keep the elderly alive for a few more years. This is the big issue. I know no one wants to kill off the elderly, but using medicine to keep prolonging life will bankrupt us until no one can afford healthcare..already has. Fact is this must stop.

The next crisis is the youth of today, 40% obese. We have the first generation that has a lower life expectancy than the former. They will be the generation of terrible chronic disease in a time when healthcare will be unavailable. I think Trump is out there, but I do agree with him we will be a two class society of 10% rich, 90% in poverty.The question is: What is the quality of the life that is prolonged. I've seen too many people, friends and relatives suffer immensely in the name of moral obligations. What's more moral? Letting a person (whose time has come) pass away peacefully or keeping them around to suffer as long as morality (or our distorted view of it) deems necessary? I don't know buddy. I fear I've become way too cynical over the years to adaquately answer that one.

[Armistead]

I understand. The last figures I saw was about 32% of medical cost are relelated to keeping the elderly alive. I don't know where you draw the point. With medicare, you're pretty much gonna get whatever your Doctor orders. I guess if I was 72 and needed a Quad to live I would want it. Canada is different. I have friend there who is 68 denied a hip transplant.
If your old and get cancer in Canada, you'll get about a third of the care you would here. Problem is no one wants to die, then when it comes to life, if you only get medical care because you can afford it then the rest deem it unfair.

I think as long as health care is based on mass profits we're headed for trouble. Years ago Doctors worked basically as single entities, today most groups are somehow tied to large corporations.

Something terrible happened around the 70's-80's with the corporate takeover of medical care.

[Bubblehead1980]

I understand. The last figures I saw was about 32% of medical cost are relelated to keeping the elderly alive. I don't know where you draw the point. With medicare, you're pretty much gonna get whatever your Doctor orders. I guess if I was 72 and needed a Quad to live I would want it. Canada is different. I have friend there who is 68 denied a hip transplant.
If your old and get cancer in Canada, you'll get about a third of the care you would here. Problem is no one wants to die, then when it comes to life, if you only get medical care because you can afford it then the rest deem it unfair.

I think as long as health care is based on mass profits we're headed for trouble. Years ago Doctors worked basically as single entities, today most groups are somehow tied to large corporations.

Something terrible happened around the 70's-80's with the corporate takeover of medical care.


Yea and that is just wrong to deny someone a procedure that would save their life or make their life better just because they are older.Just wrong.

Exactly, it is about choice. Should prob continue this in Gen Topics, getting off base here.

[WernherVonTrapp]

In the last 10 years, here in Jersey, we're now seeing more and more of of what is called the DNR orders. Usually with the elderly and terminally ill. I think there are a lot of other states using DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders now too. It seems a bit more humane, to me anyway, that the person who is suffering is now given the choice.