Could someone experienced please help me?

[yourgi952]

Hi all, I am frustrated, I Just started my first patrol as I have been getting practice with manual targeting etc with the mission editor and some single missions, but I have a few questions.

1. So i can (just) track a ship with hydrophones and plot its course and intercept it etc, but I am confused as to how to attack targets if you don't have time to do all that, like how do you work out their speed ect when they are to close do it the long way.

2. Also when you when do you go deeper than periscope depth, just when trying to escape or do you attack from there just without the periscope or? probably a stupid question but I have to learn somehow :S

3.I am using TMO 2.0 and after my first patrol (and a few load games later) I finished back at port with about 95% hull damage and no kills... and my career ending I'm guessing because I had no kills.
The main problem is that I have to use time compression obviously and it seems that by the time it goes back to 1x speed after spotting a plane or warship or something that they have already got a bunch of shots off at me, and the bombers are to hard to spot until the last second anyway.

So basically I would be really grateful for any advise\strategy you would recommend or tips or anything really, perhaps if I understood a bit better how it was done in real life that might help I don't know.
Thanks for any help:)

[NorthBeach]

It's time to become familiar with everything in the Bag of Tricks

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

[I'm goin' down]

TMO is not an easy mod. You might want to start with RFB or FOTRS.

Are you experienced with auto targeting? If not, get that down. If so, a wide variety of attack techniques are set forth in the Skipper's Bag of Tricks sticky in this forum. Many are accompanied by videos, and Rockin Robbins can provide you with a mod whereby you can practice attacks in the safety of southern California waters. Don't go swimming though, because a shark just killed a boogie boarder earlier today at a southern CA beach.

Plotting course: Do you play with map contacts off? That is for the hardcore subsimmers. If so, you have to plot course using sonar readings or using the 3D TDC mod. There are videos in the above thread on how to do a sonar only attack, and there is a thread by Capn Scurvy in the mod forum on playing with map contacts disabled. The 3d TDC mod thread is in the mod forum, but the mod is hard one to master.

Before you go that route, I would start with map contacts on. EZ Plot 1.0 is a mod that will retore ship sillouttes per the stock game if a supermod is used. With map contact enabled, you can easily plot a ship's speed using the 3 minute rule by using the tools on your Navigation Map. Under this method you will not need to use sonar to plot speed or course. Once you are comfortable plotting course and speed, you can try a sonar only attack by referring to Rockin Robbins' or Werner Sobe's video tutorials in the sticky described above. Note, while you can use sonar only at any time, most players use it in poor visibility or at night, especially when they are unable to get map contacts or when map contacts are turned off.

For manual targeting, you can open the compass tool and plot the true course of the target. You can input the true course on Aob dial on the stadimeter utilizing the the Easy Aob mod. Manual targeting with the TDC is comlex and requires the PK to be turned on. If you are attacking with the O'Kane or related techniques that do not require the PK to be operating, all you require is course and speed, and adherance to the attack rules. If you do not understand all of this, then you have some reading to do. Again, I refer you to the Skipper's Bag of Tricks sticky.

I hope this helps.

[Armistead]

Good things have been covered, not quite sure what your after.

You're not going to get speed and course with sonar alone. To get speed and course using manual targeting you need to get at least two good stad measurements, about 20 seconds apart is good. After your second one go to the speed wheel, you'll see an tab on the top left..that says something like "ask for speed", can't remember exactly what it says, but you click it and you'll see a message at the top giving you the ships speed and course. You can then click the tab to the right on the speed wheel and that sets the speed to your TDC. The AOB is basially the ships course, you have to set that manually by adjusting the AOB wheel or just guess looking at the ship. Many use the EASY AOB mod that lets you turn both wheels, but you can still adjust it yourself using the AOB wheel until it's on the right course. However, you need precise stad measurements, usually within 2000 yards to be accurate, but you just keep at it and you'll figure it out before then. I'm sure all of this is in one of the manual video tutorials in skipper bag of tricks.

You can get a speed and course estimate using sonar alone, but more of a guess.

Obvious you want to do your attacks based on the best info placed in the TDC. There are many ways, but if using the manual targeting, you need to have you best solution possible right before you shoot. You may have a decent setup and decide to wait and shoot without looking, but if they've changed course or speed, that's no good. Usually I play with cams and contacts off, so I'll get my best set up on the TDC and when they're about 2000 yards, I'll do my last setup to make sure and adjust. Depending on where escorts are, I may stay up and shoot all my tubes or dive deep.

I say learn manual targeting. Auto is very limiting. Many times you have to shoot based on where you think the ship will be when your torps arrive and auto targeting won't let you set up that way.

Do look at the skipper bag of tricks. The OKane 90 is a good attack, but it becomes worthless if you're spotted right before you need to shoot as they will go into zigs, speed changes, ect. You need to learn how to use the basic stad, then you can use many options with it, like shooting by the wire.

It may sound hard at first, but in time it becomes easy. Learn as many shooting techniques as you can. You keep at it then it will just click.

Most important it doesn't matter how good you learn to shoot, you also have to learn how to get into positions and shoot before the escorts find you, not an easy task, but if you do it right, you can easily defeat the escorts of TMO and shoot before they ping you. You may want to start with the easier AI optional mod with TMO.

The best tactic, moreso with cams off,when your busy looking at the scope and setting up is to ask your sonarman to follow nearest warship. If he tells you it's fast and closing, you've probably been found out, but gives you time to decide.

[yourgi952]

Hi all thanks for the reply's I do have RFB 2.0 as well I might give that a try
and yes I play with map contacts off I prefer to play as close to real as possible. The bag of tricks has some really cool info too.
Ill try some of your suggestions and ill report back in a bit, thanks for all your help :)

[Capt. Morgan]

First off, congratulations on surviving a patrol in TMO as a novice Captain. :salute: TMO was created to provide a considerably greater challenge than the stock game.

All excellent points above - look for the videos by Rockin' Robbins and Werner Sobe In the Bag of Tricks... excellent tutorials on manual targeting.

some partial answer to your questions..

...
1. So i can (just) track a ship with hydrophones and plot its course and intercept it etc, but I am confused as to how to attack targets if you don't have time to do all that, like how do you work out their speed ect when they are to close do it the long way.

If you have ID'd the ship and know its length, you can calculate its speed by measuring how long it tales to cross the centerline of your
periscope or TBT (For best accuracy, your sub should either be stationary or pointing directly at the target)... or you can also guess the speed by looking at the bow-wake. With enough experience you can also guess A.O.B. and range just by looking - good enough for a hit at close quarters

2. Also when you when do you go deeper than periscope depth, just when trying to escape or do you attack from there just without the periscope or? probably a stupid question but I have to learn somehow As you go deeper, you will hear a crewman tell you that you've "crossed the thermal layer". That makes you more difficult to detect, so going that much deeper is a help when evading attacking escorts.

In TMO it is also usually necessary to go that deep in order to successfully sneak past the convoy escorts in order to make the initial attack. (Being able to successfully attack a ship from below periscope depth - aiming by sonar only - is considered a very advanced skill).

During a depth charge attack you can also tell how deep your enemy has set them to explode (the amount of time it takes from the first splash until the explosion will tell you). If the charges are exploding shallow - go deep. If they are exploding deep, periscope depth might be a good place to stay.

3...I have to use time compression obviously and it seems that by the time it goes back to 1x speed after spotting a plane or warship or something that they have already got a bunch of shots off at me, and the bombers are to hard to spot until the last second anyway.That's exactly what happens. The fastest time compression you can safely use depends on the power of your computer. Sounds like you'll have to slow down. When you are plotting a course to be covered at high T.C., make sure the plot doesn't run into any of the hundreds of tiny islands that litter the Pacific. I usually stay at 1024X or less in empty areas, 128X - 512X if I expect enemy contacts, and 4X - tops in combat situations

[Armistead]

Hi all thanks for the reply's I do have RFB 2.0 as well I might give that a try
and yes I play with map contacts off I prefer to play as close to real as possible. The bag of tricks has some really cool info too.
Ill try some of your suggestions and ill report back in a bit, thanks for all your help :)

If your going to play with contacts off the radar mod is a must, used correctly you can get exact ranges and speed at great distance, your still making marks, just on empty map.

You'll never find me evading at scope depth using TMO, they''l drop those cans right on your head, speed, depth and a minor course change work best. I will also make depth changes. Listen for him to start his run, hit flank and stay that way until the charges explode. If your deep enough it takes time for the charges to reach you, by going flank by the time they reach your depth, you have left them behind. The exploding depth of the charge is basically set when he cranks up for his run, so some depth change can help. I usually will sit at 400 ft or so in a Gato and when he makes his run I'll rise up about 100 ft, usually the charges expode underneath me. Once he is done with his pass I'll go back to silent. I do have little cheat, sometimes I'll raise my scope underwater and watch the ship and charges fall, but only when it's getting bad. Cams and contacts off are hard enough...

[I'm goin' down]

the above radar mod is what Armistead is referring to. I would think again before I learned the game using TMO playing with map contacts off. The 3D TDC mod has many steps, and it slows the time it takes attack down a REALLLLLLY long time. If you are a glutton for punishment you will love it. And you will be able to plot course, get speed calcs, take out carriers at night in a hurricane (or cyclone), and win the medal on honor. You will also lose your job, wife and kids, and the dog will walk out on you too.

[Platapus]

The AOB is basially the ships course, you have to set that manually by adjusting the AOB wheel or just guess looking at the ship.


<twitch>

I hope you meant that in the context that like the ship's course, the AOB can be manually entered by manipulating the controls.

I hope you are not claiming that AOB is the ship's course

<twitch>

[Armistead]

Yes and no, it's the course relative to you. What makes the easy AOB mod good. Get two good stad measurements, get speed and course. You can spin the AOB wheel until it matches the course in the TDC on your left, then you have a perfect AOB.

That make better sense....

[Armistead]

the above radar mod is what Armistead is referring to. I would think again before I learned the game using TMO playing with map contacts off. The 3D TDC mod has many steps, and it slows the time it takes attack down a REALLLLLLY long time. If you are a glutton for punishment you will love it. And you will be able to plot course, get speed calcs, take out carriers at night in a hurricane (or cyclone), and win the medal on honor. You will also lose your job, wife and kids, and the dog will walk out on you too.

The good thing with the radar mod, if you get two good measurements with it, you can actually use the 3 minute rule with it and get course and speed and then set your intercept. Damn lot faster than when we didn't have it.

I'm doing this patrol contact and cams off. Just started out of Manila and attack the first Lingayen invasion force. Don't have the radar mod this go round and do I miss it, but don't have surface radar anyway. I did OK my first setup, had to dive about 9000 yards in front, but off a starboard track. Got up to scope depth the Large Pass. liner I wanted was bearing 270 with a 0 AOB at 1100 yards. I hit flank in just enough time to use my sterns and sunk it with two, shot the large tanker with two, hard flank left and shot the Kuma with 4 and sunk it. Deep to evade. I spent the next two days chasing the group as it went south, but it turned back north and around I go again. Got chased away by the DD's a few times. Finally got on track and sunk a Nagara and shot 4 more at the listing tanker, had to head deep with escorts on my arse. Somehow all 4 missed.

Guess what I'm getting at...If I had contacts and cams on I can do all of this in one go round in about a hour at the most. I've been at this for 3 hours and right now have escorts pinging me. That's the hardest thing no cam or contacts, damn slow play, almost real time evading. I can hardly stand it. Wish we could at least get sonar lines with contacts off.

[I'm goin' down]

<twitch>

I hope you meant that in the context that like the ship's course, the AOB can be manually entered by manipulating the controls.

I hope you are not claiming that AOB is the ship's course

<twitch>

I did not read Armistead's post to suggest what you are implying.

[Armistead]

Here explains how the ships course is his AOB.

A US ship so got perfect stad measurments, after two, I click for his speed, you can read the top where it states his speed and course, 8 kt's, course is 327, that is his true course. Now look at the AOB setting left top wheel. I spun the right AOB wheel until his AOB on the left top PK wheel matched his course, 327....perfect AOB. So for AOB you just set the wheel to match his course.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2010-10-25_155944_897.jpg

Hard to see, but you can see I've drawn his true course, read the course on the tool and it reads roughly 327.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2010-10-25_160025_928.jpg

So you set the AOB to his course, not that it is his course, you can see his obvious course is about 327 on the map.
That clear it up.