Patrol guidance: I feel like I'm doing it wrong

[treblesum81]

I'm just curious about the tactics people use while not setting up shots, but just searching around for things to kill. I've tried everything from just cruising around, using the programmed search patterns, or even coming up with my own zig-zag patterns, but nothing really seems to stand out as being more effective for detecting enemy ships. What I have noticed is that some cover a lot more ground than others, but much less thoroughly, so I'm not sure which is the better way to go... less ground but more thorough, or more ground but less thorough, or something in between, maybe even something different altogether?

Thanks

[Admiral8Q]

I'm not sure what mods your using, but in stock you can go after contact reports. I'm using TMO and the bloody planes never stop. I find some good ol' hunting grounds and rack up the tonnage there.

If you have to patrol a certain area and their are no contacts after your patrol time, then go look where ever you want.

[magic452]

I use a elongated Z pattern and cover as much ground as I can but try to cover it some what more or less thoroughly. If that makes any seance?

Where you are looking makes the difference, check the shipping map to get good locations.

Magic

[treblesum81]

I'm using TMO + RSRDC I've been following the shipping map, but not made many contacts. Even going back as far as SHIII though, I've always wondered what the best way to hunt was, since I've never felt like I've been able to really catch anything all that well.

[magic452]

I had no luck at all with RSRD 13 patrols and nothing but single ships, maybe two convoys and no TF at all. Got so boring I started shooting from 4,000 yards with vector analysis just to put some excitement in it.
Running just TMO now.

RSRD is great for the major battles, etc. but a little lacking if you are just going to go on mission orders. Perhaps it's a little too real.

Magic

[Mav87th]

It's August in 1942. The USS Guardfish are on course to the East China Sea to patrol those waters for enemy shipping.

The boat is installed with RFB2.0 and RSRDC, so we do not see much shipping on the route, BUT.....

When we passed the Tokyo-Truk shipping lane we took the time to lay still for 24 hours and that paid off. Two nice freighters on the route from Tokyo to Truk with supply's came steaming south loaded with goods.

Later when we were calibrating the SJ-Radar at Sofu Gan we ran into two other freighters, one of them a 10.000 ton oil tanker running towards Japan. That was a great catch. Sofu Gan seems like a good place to hunt near, many uses it as a navigational fix. That SJ-kit is a great asset. It picked up the oiler from 30nm's!!

Now (with almost no torpedoes left) we are steaming for Tokara Gunto just north of Amami-O Shima in the Nansai Shoto's, where we will make our passage through into the East China Sea.

......Commander of the USS Guardfish...
......Kaptain M. Vinther

[Chubster]

It's August in 1942. The USS Guardfish are on course to the East China Sea to patrol those waters for enemy shipping.

The boat is installed with RFB2.0 and RSRDC, so we do not see much shipping on the route, BUT.....

When we passed the Tokyo-Truk shipping lane we took the time to lay still for 24 hours and that paid off. Two nice freighters on the route from Tokyo to Truk with supply's came steaming south loaded with goods.

Later when we were calibrating the SJ-Radar at Sofu Gan we ran into two other freighters, one of them a 10.000 ton oil tanker running towards Japan. That was a great catch. Sofu Gan seems like a good place to hunt near, many uses it as a navigational fix. That SJ-kit is a great asset. It picked up the oiler from 30nm's!!

Now (with almost no torpedoes left) we are steaming for Tokara Gunto just north of Amami-O Shima in the Nansai Shoto's, where we will make our passage through into the East China Sea.

......Commander of the USS Guardfish...
......Kaptain M. Vinther


How far of Truk are you and what day is it.....cos on the 17th just west off Truk there is a bloomin great big Task Force. Spotted it once just sitting there but had no torps left. There also seems to be a large force of warships steaming towards them coming from the west also

[Admiral8Q]

I prefer pure TMO. Challenging, but a lot of stuff:salute:

Destroyers and escorts keep you on your toes too! :o

[BillBam]

I think a lot of how you search depends on what tools your boat has.

If you only have sonar best to stick close to the coast within sonar range and find single merchants trying to avoid you.

If you have radar run the convoy lanes in a pattern so you don't overlap your radar coverage. If you are in wide open water I perfer a higher speed to cover more ground, in tighter spots or near chock points I really slow down.

If you have radar and are near land draw lines out from the land that equal your radar range and connect your way-points to the end of the lines and follow this pattern. This will guarantee that no ship is missed on your land side.

[treblesum81]

I think a lot of how you search depends on what tools your boat has.

If you only have sonar best to stick close to the coast within sonar range and find single merchants trying to avoid you.

If you have radar run the convoy lanes in a pattern so you don't overlap your radar coverage. If you are in wide open water I perfer a higher speed to cover more ground, in tighter spots or near chock points I really slow down.

If you have radar and are near land draw lines out from the land that equal your radar range and connect your way-points to the end of the lines and follow this pattern. This will guarantee that no ship is missed on your land side.

Aren't most of the better targets (TF and Convoys) found further out to sea? I haven't done any coastal hunting in SH4, but what I remember of SH3 was that it was all small stuff that wasn't worth a torp...

[BillBam]

Aren't most of the better targets (TF and Convoys) found further out to sea? I haven't done any coastal hunting in SH4, but what I remember of SH3 was that it was all small stuff that wasn't worth a torp...

I was just giving suggestions on how to find traffic. If you are using RSRD you might have to take what is available since the big convoys and TF are dependant on whether they were real per the jap wartime records.

[Mav87th]

How far of Truk are you and what day is it.....

It's august the 18th 1942, but I'm far off Truk as I'm almost next to Sofu Gan. In a day or two I'll be in the Tokara Gunto (Strait in the Nanso Shoto island chain north of Okinawa)

[Zero Niner]

Position yourself near choke points, depending on your area of patrol. For example for my current career I'm based at Fremantle, so my assignments are in the South China Sea & Celebes Sea. I find that the narrow waterway between Borneo & the Celebes is a good place to hunt.
I also dive to PD & manually check the sonar myself. I rotate 360 deg & see if I can pick up anything. I've found quite a number of targets this way. It's especially effective early in the war as sometimes I pick up a merchant or warship on sonar that radar doesn't.

[Admiral8Q]

Treblesome81, I just wanted to show you what I sometimes do if I'm having no luck finding any ships at sea. In this case I'm trying a less busy area because I got sick of the zillions of planes where my "Favorite" hunting ground was.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/407/searchpatern01.png
Every time I get a contact, whether on hydrophones, or radar, I check the range that it's being detected at. In this case, I'm usually getting radar contacts just outside of 10nm. So I make two circles and conect a line on both ends for an area I want to cover. Then more circles all connected to make a "corridor". Finally, I put the way-points of my course in the center of each circle.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3261/searchpatern02.png
I was just doing this in my game now and I remembered you asking about patrolling. Oh, that curved line on the left is the edge of my 4 day, 108nm patrol zone. I just wanted to see if there was anything down at those three little ports :03:

I could make a better one when I'm heading back out to sea. One that covers more area without overlapping much. I'll post it then.

I hope this helps:cool:

[treblesum81]

How often should one dive for a manual sonar check? I've been trying different time frames, but I keep finding myself behind targets, almost as if I should be constantly listening...

[treblesum81]

Treblesome81, I just wanted to show you what I sometimes do if I'm having no luck finding any ships at sea. In this case I'm trying a less busy area because I got sick of the zillions of planes where my "Favorite" hunting ground was.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/407/searchpatern01.png
Every time I get a contact, whether on hydrophones, or radar, I check the range that it's being detected at. In this case, I'm usually getting radar contacts just outside of 10nm. So I make two circles and conect a line on both ends for an area I want to cover. Then more circles all connected to make a "corridor". Finally, I put the way-points of my course in the center of each circle.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3261/searchpatern02.png
I was just doing this in my game now and I remembered you asking about patrolling. Oh, that curved line on the left is the edge of my 4 day, 108nm patrol zone. I just wanted to see if there was anything down at those three little ports :03:

I could make a better one when I'm heading back out to sea. One that covers more area without overlapping much. I'll post it then.

I hope this helps:cool:

Thats an interesting way of keeping track of what you're covering, though it seems a little involved. I also wonder how well it takes into account target movement, which is something I've been having a lot of trouble with. I find it difficult to set up a search pattern in a way that will give me decent coverage (still don't have radar just yet, so that may help after another patrol or two), without leaving gaping holes for enemy convoys to slip through...

Position yourself near choke points, depending on your area of patrol. For example for my current career I'm based at Fremantle, so my assignments are in the South China Sea & Celebes Sea. I find that the narrow waterway between Borneo & the Celebes is a good place to hunt.
I also dive to PD & manually check the sonar myself. I rotate 360 deg & see if I can pick up anything. I've found quite a number of targets this way. It's especially effective early in the war as sometimes I pick up a merchant or warship on sonar that radar doesn't.

What do you do when your sent out to an area without a choke point? I'm running RSRDC, which follows that nice map, but sometimes I'm out in the middle of the south china sea, or just off a coast somewhere without any decent concentration point within my patrol area. Do you just try to cover as much area as possible? Or do you focus in on traffic lines in the hopes you'll catch something moving through there?

[Diopos]

For merchants (speed ~10 Kts or less) my recipe includes sonar sweeps every hour. If for whatever reason (air crafts, fishing boats, coastal gun batteries) you want to avoid surfacing to get in a proper attacking position, do them more frequently (slower submerged speed, more time to get in position, the "further out" you acquire a target the better).

[Admiral8Q]

I actually ended up doing something like this, (The yellow course) Raided Shingu and sunk a 5000 ton merchie with 4 MK10 torps. Before that I only had 5 merchies sunk for 7000 tons. A nice prize here!
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/549/searchpatern02a.png

Now off to Katsuura! :D

[Admiral8Q]

I realized that this kind of search pattern works a lot better on a larger scale over longer distances. In this next pic, I've set up a search pattern to criss-cross along a shipping route withing my patrol area. (The outer circle)
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1483/searchpatern03a.png

Again I used 10nm Radius circles. You don't need the outer lines unless you're just trying to line up the next circle. I draw a 10nm line from each circle in the direction I want to head, then use that to place my next circle. It works quite well and doesn't really take much time to set up. Once you have the way-points connected to the center of each circle, you can hit the "erase all" and you have a clean plot laid in! (Blue line) :salute:

8Q

[magic452]

Admiral from the looks of that blue line I'd say your navigator has been hitting the medical stores again. :()1:

Magic

[Admiral8Q]

Admiral from the looks of that blue line I'd say your navigator has been hitting the medical stores again. :()1:

Magic

:hmmm: So it seems he has, let me check...

It was the helmsman! http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/keith.gif No wait, it was the navigator! http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/sailr.gif He seems alright, let me check the firemen... http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/danse1.gif Hmm...:hmmm: The officers? http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/par-ty.gif

http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/poet.gif Personal Log entry: Admiral8Q, Commanding Officer.

"It would seem that after our success in the USS Drum that the crew have brought aboard prohibited alcohol and are enjoying it. Because of my successful strategies, and our good fortune, I believe it is my fault that they are getting out of control. I would enact discipline, however since no fights have broken out I may go and try this medicinal beer myself."


http://forum.piratesahoy.net//public/style_emoticons/default/poet.gif Personal Log entry: Admiral8Q, Commanding Officer.
"Our crew has become a closer knit camaraderie. I promised that although the Drum is an experimental version of the so called "Gato" class fleet boats, we have done well and deserve a bit of fun. After ariving at Pearl, I gave all the good men a month of R&R. "

Now back to patrolling and teaching these Japs that they cannot and will not defeat a free thinking people.

[Armistead]

Just remember the game lag is a dead give away ships are in your contact zone, the problem is your guys won't find them to later war. I'm sure you've noticed your PC lagging out from time to time, usually before you run into a target. The problem is when it lags and you miss the target.

Try to think of it like this. Imagine your best crew and best equipment. Say both have the ability to reach out 25nm's at their best. This contact zone exist around your sub from the very beginning, but since you don't have the best stuff you'll not get the contact, just the lag as ships have entered the contact zone. You'll only get real contacts from your crew based on the level of ability, so early war your ability may only be 12nms.

Your men may suck early war, but you don't. You get the PC lag, go to sonar as you can hear what they can't yet hear. You get the sonar bearing and you can head that direction.

As your crew improves and you get better equipment, the lag will be less and less. Late war you may get little to no lag as they now pick up to the end of the zone.

[Armistead]

If you're playing RSRD, those patrol stars are a waste of time. Do em and get one over with, then go to where historical action is.

Another thing to rembember, even if you don't use RSRD, stock still has many of the invasion forces and battle, just many of the dates are wrong, locations and size of the force.

Stock will spawn convoys about anywhere, but the best convoys and TF will always be in campaign areas. Pay attention to carrier planes, you know what planes are on the carrier, you know a carrier is near.

I always start out of Manila. Even stock has some of the invasion forces that hit the Phillippines. I just attacked the large invasion force on Dec 12 that hit the Phillippines. A good one with RSRD is the one just above the San Bern Straits as it has several Chistose carriers and Large liners. After sinking a few I hurried to Surabaya and docked and headed to a lil North of Singy and attacked the invasion force near the Malay. I then watched the Japs attacked the British BB's and sink them, back to Surabaya for a refit to have time to attack the large Java force of 50 plus ships. Hurried to Darwin for a refit to have time to find the Carrier group that comes into the Indian ocean.

So many complain of no ships in RSRD..My last two patrols I've attacked 2 large TF and 3 large convoys....didn't have to mess with one single ship.

Soon I'll be headed to the Solomons... Plenty there and near Rabaul 42 and 43. You have a large invasion force at Lae with some ships you seldom see. Then the large battles near the Sols..

Shoho invasion group.
Coral Sea
Battle of GC
Sava
Santa Cruz

Plus several medium size battles, most surface battles, but fun to watch.

I found the best place for action 43 is the Truk/Home Waters shipping lane, just sit about 470 NM N or Truk and 270NM East of Saipan...thats a honey hole. You'll get several flash messages for that area, so get there if you can.

[Admiral8Q]

I like picking off lone merchies in small shipping lanes and raiding harbors. I guess that's why I love the Narwhal so much! :haha:

Once after sneaking into Truk and torpedoing a big merchie, the DD came heading for me. I fired my last torpedo and hit him on the bow. He sat there with his nose in the water and arse sticking out. After a couple of hours, and with CO2 rising, I surfaced and finished him off at night with the deck guns!