[REQ] Natural Sinking/Ship Death

[killpo1]

Currently, i am sitting in front of 2 liberty ships that are both 75% on fire 50% submerged and refusing to sink, and not getting the credit for the kills. Now im sure even rescue did eventually come a couple days later that ship would just be a burnt carcass, usually this wouldn't be a problem but being low on torpedo and bingo on deck gun ammo i rather not have to put one more torpedo in them to actually get the credit. All i am really asking for is a redone ship kill system or where a ship will actually sink if you fill a majority of its compartments ( 2 torpedo's in the front and back compartment same side and quite a few AP deck gun rounds below the water line)

[KV]

I think it'd be good with a "dead in the water" label working as a kill as well, just having the crew saying "She's dead in the water" and that's it.

[The General]

@KillPo1

Sorry, no sink=no credit. U-boat Comander's would often run out of torpedos and deckgun ammo. Frustrating for you I know, but it is realistic. There has been a substantial reworking of the damage model for SH5 and calling for a Mod because you ran out of ammo is a little unsporting :|\\ Now, scrub the deck Swabbie!:arrgh!:

[jwilliams]

@KillPo1

Sorry, no sink=no credit. U-boat Comander's would often run out of torpedos and deckgun ammo. Frustrating for you I know, but it is realistic. There has been a substantial reworking of the damage model for SH5 and calling for a Mod because you ran out of ammo is a little unsporting :|\\


Woot im glad ships sink realisticly.
+1 to the devs :DL

[Highbury]

@KillPo1

Sorry, no sink=no credit. U-boat Comander's would often run out of torpedos and deckgun ammo. Frustrating for you I know, but it is realistic. There has been a substantial reworking of the damage model for SH5 and calling for a Mod because you ran out of ammo is a little unsporting :|\\

In those cases in real life they were credited with "Damaged" tonnage as well.

Successes
40 ships sunk for a total of 208,954 GRT
3 auxiliary warships sunk for a total of 46,440 GRT
1 warship sunk for a total of 1,375 tons
1 ship sunk for a total of 2,136 GRT
5 ships damaged for a total of 37,965 GRT
2 ships a total loss for a total of 15,513 GRT
http://www.uboat.net/men/kretschmer.htm

I have often wished we would be credited for the ones we just can't put down as well, not with a kill but with the game recognizing damaged ones.

[The General]

I have often wished we would be credited for the ones we just can't put down as well, not with a kill but with the game recognizing damaged ones.Shall we start giving out medals to everyone who took part at the Olympics too, we don't want them to feel left out?! :O:

Did the Sub-Aces get to the top of the Leaderboard for the amount of damage they did or the amount of tonnage sunk in total? There are no prizes for second place! :|\\

[Highbury]

Did the Sub-Aces get to the top of the Leaderboard for the amount of damage they did or the amount of tonnage sunk in total?

Both if you look at the link I posted. Their "damaged" tonnage was part of their record. So it is realistic, ok? :nope:

[The General]

Both if you look at the link I posted. Their "damaged" tonnage was part of their record. So it is realistic, ok? :nope:No, not 'ok'. Are you telling me that a guy who had less total tonnage sunk but had a higher total, when combined with his damaged tonnage, would have a higher place on the leaderboard? I say no way.

[Highbury]

I am saying that each Captain had two statistics. One for Sunk and One for Damaged. Both were recorded separately in real life so I would like both recorded separately on our records in game. I don't care about any leaderboard. Is that clear enough? For those who do get excited over leaderboards then I would be quite happy to leave those counts out if it. I want it for realism in my log.

[The General]

Is the sky the right shade of blue for you in SH5? If not, I'm sure we can recall The Devs from their well-earned holiday to attend to your every whim.

[KV]

*sigh* Two different things - to continue the analogy: detailing the career of someone on the leaderboard is different from the actual ranking of the leaderboard. I may have won 1 gold medal, and finished 4th fifty-two times. That would still be interesting from a so called "academic" point of view, even though it doesn't move me further up the leaderboard. So why not add "damaged" as an "academic" function to my own stats?

[The General]

@KV

That deck ain't gonna clean itself. You can join your Swabbie friend above.:O:

[KV]

Only if I get credit for only swabbing half...:O:

[The General]

Only if I get credit for only swabbing half...:O::rotfl2: Good one!

[killpo1]

The only problem i had was that the ship was a flaming inferno of death, maybe I should have taken a picture, but with it basically being dead in the water a fair but submerged and as previous state, a flaming inferno of fire ( 75% + of the ship was on fire ) i'm not quite sure that when a distress ship got there that there would be anything left then a burnt carcass of a ship. If it had no already sunk yet.

However this is not the main problem, i put a holed (2 being torpedo the rest AP Deck gun) into all but maybe one of her starboard side and she barley even leaned toward that side. Now im not a Ship Engineer but i'm fairly certain that would have flooded a majority of the ship, and eventually over time, i have no problem waiting 3-4 hours in game time for a ship to sink ( i waited 12 hours in game time), but for it to not sink at all is kind of well, weird.

[McHibbins]

Some ships were sunk after days.....and some were recovered and built up again (in the early days of war). Often those who didn´t want to go down were sunk by friendly fire to prevent from accidents.

[Wilcke]

The only problem i had was that the ship was a flaming inferno of death, maybe I should have taken a picture, but with it basically being dead in the water a fair but submerged and as previous state, a flaming inferno of fire ( 75% + of the ship was on fire ) i'm not quite sure that when a distress ship got there that there would be anything left then a burnt carcass of a ship. If it had no already sunk yet.

However this is not the main problem, i put a holed (2 being torpedo the rest AP Deck gun) into all but maybe one of her starboard side and she barley even leaned toward that side. Now im not a Ship Engineer but i'm fairly certain that would have flooded a majority of the ship, and eventually over time, i have no problem waiting 3-4 hours in game time for a ship to sink ( i waited 12 hours in game time), but for it to not sink at all is kind of well, weird.

Without digging into the innards, its difficult to say whether the visual damage effects are actually producing any damage to the sinking physics of the ship involved. Time will tell. Patience grasshopper, patience.

[Sailor Steve]

I am saying that each Captain had two statistics. One for Sunk and One for Damaged. Both were recorded separately in real life so I would like both recorded separately on our records in game. I don't care about any leaderboard. Is that clear enough? For those who do get excited over leaderboards then I would be quite happy to leave those counts out if it. I want it for realism in my log.
Do you have any direct reference to actual records. I love Uboat.net, but this site disagrees http://www.uboataces.com/articles-successful-attack.shtml

I've never heard of captains being awarded for damage before, except as a footnote; especially if the ship was repaired and returned to service. What does Blair say in his books.

Yes, I agree it would be nice to have damage reported, especially if the ship ends up being scrapped. I don't think it should apply to renown, though, but that's just my opinion.


My big question to add to the OP's though, is this: Do you still have to be within sighting distance of the target to get the credit. Realistically you should be awarded even if it sinks two days later. It would be a nice surprise. It would also be a nice surprise to be notified that the ship made it to port and you're out of luck, credit-wise.

[KV]

Do you have any direct reference to actual records. I love Uboat.net, but this site disagrees http://www.uboataces.com/articles-successful-attack.shtml

I've never heard of captains being awarded for damage before, except as a footnote; especially if the ship was repaired and returned to service. What does Blair say in his books.



Just a note, for me at least it would be interesting to just have the damage acknowledged, not for score or anything rank related but just for the record. A bit like the stats for u-boat captains on Wikipedia (e.g. Prien etc.). I'm sure they'd mention of they'd put 8 torpedoes into the biggest carrier or whatever the enemy had and that it didn't sink but was abandoned. Or whatever.

[Ducimus]

>> [REQ] Natural Sinking/Ship Death

It is way too early to be thinking about this kind of thing.

[Von Schmidt]

The Kriegsmarine did keep track of Dammaged tonnage. Dammaging a ship is going to put the ship out of action for a limited amount of time. Doenitz's book gives mention of this accounting "u-90s attack on west bound convoy on115 two ships sunk for 16518, an one damaged for 10,000 tons" Admiral Raeders book also mentions this type of accountablilty .

[Highbury]

Do you have any direct reference to actual records. I love Uboat.net, but this site disagrees http://www.uboataces.com/articles-successful-attack.shtml

Actually UBoat.net is a good enough reference unless you think they made up the figures for damaged ships on that site, and I doubt you would believe that. It shows that in an informal way damaged tonnage was being counted, even if some websites don't list them or consider them pertinent.

It should not count on any leaderboard, or be rewarded with renown, but I think it would be nice if it was included as a note in your patrol logs, as was done in real life. That's all. I think anyone who used SH3Commander would probably agree that these little details make a game career much more full.

[killpo1]

Lol i can see it now; Total Tonnage Sunk: 150,000 Total Damaged Tonnage: 1,000,000.3 /cry

But yeah i would enjoy seeing at least the damaged i caused even though i didn't sink them

[Sailor Steve]

Actually UBoat.net is a good enough reference unless you think they made up the figures for damaged ships on that site, and I doubt you would believe that. It shows that in an informal way damaged tonnage was being counted, even if some websites don't list them or consider them pertinent.
I'm sure their figures are accurate. I was objecting to 'awards' based on them. Your following paragraph cleared that up nicely.

It should not count on any leaderboard, or be rewarded with renown, but I think it would be nice if it was included as a note in your patrol logs, as was done in real life. That's all. I think anyone who used SH3Commander would probably agree that these little details make a game career much more full.
Gotcha. I originally thought you were rooting for awards when you were just advocating full acknowledgement.

I was on a different page, and now that you've cleared it up for me I agree wholeheartedly.:rock:

[Bilge_Rat]

On another issue, obviously the damage system is still using the Hit Point system. However the devs mentioned the flooding system had been improved.

Has anyone looked in the game files to see if there is any improvement over SH4?

Even though modders, for example RFB 2.0, had made improvements to the flooding and sinking mechanism, there were still problems caused by the fact that certain things were hardcoded and could not be changed.

[killpo1]

yeah Bilge Rat I've noticed that to, i swear a hit point system for a ship is uber annoying, being forced to keep shelling it till it explodes is rather quite annoying, i prefer putting a few AP shells on the waterline and letting her sink.