Deep diving, and turn rate in RFB (+ RSRD)

[Vortex]

Hi all. I'm back to play SH4 (was last here on the forums for SH3, and probably Sub Command before that) and I now find myself at the stage where no amount of searching seems to come up with answers to a few questions I have. I'd appreciate any help if you have the free time.

1.) Am I missing something? Is there an ingame command (or mod) to get a RFB sub to dive below test depth? Dive planes don't seem to allow user input, the control room gague or D key doesn't work, etc.. And knowing something myself about the 'stated' allowable yield strengths of steel - as well as some real sub history on 'test depths', too - this seems wildly unrealistic to me. Is it because of the sub becoming invulnerable to attack below a certain depth bug is still around in SH after all these years?

2.) It must be taking me somewhere around an hour real time to make one 360 degree turn in a submerged Sargo class sub at ahead 2/3 speed in RFB. Is this as intended? Or am I bugged somehow.

3.) Does the information about using the mast tops for ranging merchants, the flight deck for carriers, and the funnel tops for warships still apply in RFB 2.0? I found this in the RFB manual for ver 1.5 (because there is no manual included with the 2.0 download).


Thanks.

As for TMO, I have tried it over the last few days. But I'm currently a little frustrated with being attacked from the air and (more often than not) being machine gunned and bombed within two or three seconds of receiving the alert. I haven't been sunk yet, but it seems like my fuel tanks always get punctured (no ingame damage warning except a radically reduced range), and my patrol is over before it ever gets started. But maybe this is my fault for being reluctant to submerge during daylight hours when I'm close to the coast of southern Japan, for not having an AS radar installed yet, and for playing this way with an inexperienced watch crew on their first patrol. The escorts on the other hand, I did seem to do okay with (however I haven't met Bungo Pete yet!).

Anyway, I'm still fooling around with both these supermods right now. And having some measure of fun and frustration with them both.

[Sledgehammer427]

Hi all. I'm back to play SH4 (was last here on the forums for SH3, and probably Sub Command before that) and I now find myself at the stage where no amount of searching seems to come up with answers to a few questions I have. I'd appreciate any help if you have the free time.

1.) Am I missing something? Is there an ingame command (or mod) to get a RFB sub to dive below test depth? Dive planes don't seem to allow user input, the control room gague or D key doesn't work, etc.. And knowing something myself about the 'stated' allowable yield strengths of steel - as well as some real sub history on 'test depths', too - this seems wildly unrealistic to me. Is it because of the sub becoming invulnerable to attack below a certain depth bug is still around in SH after all these years?

2.) It must be taking me somewhere around an hour real time to make one 360 degree turn in a submerged Sargo class sub at ahead 2/3 speed in RFB. Is this as intended? Or am I bugged somehow.

3.) Does the information about using the mast tops for ranging merchants, the flight deck for carriers, and the funnel tops for warships still apply in RFB 2.0? I found this in the RFB manual for ver 1.5 (because there is no manual included with the 2.0 download).


Thanks.

As for TMO, I have tried it over the last few days. But I'm currently a little frustrated with being attacked from the air and (more often than not) being machine gunned and bombed within two or three seconds of receiving the alert. I haven't been sunk yet, but it seems like my fuel tanks always get punctured (no ingame damage warning except a radically reduced range), and my patrol is over before it ever gets started. But maybe this is my fault for being reluctant to submerge during daylight hours when I'm close to the coast of southern Japan, for not having an AS radar installed yet, and for playing this way with an inexperienced watch crew on their first patrol. The escorts on the other hand, I did seem to do okay with (however I haven't met Bungo Pete yet!).

Anyway, I'm still fooling around with both these supermods right now. And having some measure of fun and frustration with them both.

I will answer your RFB questions, I've been using that the most out of all the supermods so I'll leave TMO alone.

1.) diving deeper than test depth is NOt a good idea, in RFB, the sub damage model is realistic, once you start taking damage from diving too deep, it's usually too late to recover, thus, just get as close as you can and pray the japs don't know how deep you really are.

2.)submerged at 2/3 speed in a horridly overweight Sargo? sounds about right.

3.) yes, that is all still the same, RFB 2.0 was a major rewrite of a lot of RFB 1.52's hardware, the only major changes that should be noted are included in the RFB 2.0 readme text which should have been included with the mod, otherwise everything should be as it says in the manual.

[Frederf]

2. I've found the judicious use of less-than-full rudder invaluable with RFB2.0. You get about the same degrees per second heading change with a lesser rudder simply due to the huge speed penalty of full rudder. I should make some charts as to speed and heading-rate against rudder angle.

3. There is actually an in game reminder about how to take stadimeter readings. It's the same as 1.52. Also the "2.0 manual" link states that it's the 1.52 manual but so much of it applies.

[TH0R]

Hard to port or hard to starboard rudder should never be used - use the rudder manually and everything should be fine. :)

[Armistead]

If you're taking damage on the surface near the shorelines of Japan, just may be surface guns blasting you...those things seldom miss.

RFB the depths are more realistic, I do like that about it. With TMO you can take a Gato 600ft.

[Bubblehead1980]

Well although RFB model is more realistic when it comes to depth, should still have the option to go below 450 feet, esp in a Balao or Tench\ they could make 600 feet easily and Gatos could go down pretty deep as well.BTW in TMO you wont last if you hit your crush depth, ducimus changed it from stock, no way to save the boat when you hit actual crush depth.

[Ducimus]

RFB the depths are more realistic, I do like that about it. With TMO you can take a Gato 600ft.

Only because information available would seem to indicate that fleet boats could go deeper then most people would think. Read around enough and you'll find various accounts of varying fleet boats types being deeper then most would give them credit for. Some accounts, surprised me. If i hadn't read it from a first hand source, i'd have never believed it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ducimus speaks thruth! :03:

[Frenssen's Farts]

From what I have read test depth in a fleet boat was 2/3 of the calculated crush depth.

Thus a Gato rated at 300 foot test would have had a calculated 450 foot crush.

Or a Balao with a 400 test has a calculated 600 crush.

Now, history has also shown that a number of subs went past their calculated crush depths. So in general they were a little stronger built then their stats would have suggested. I think the German Uboats were basically the same way as well being able to go a little deeper then their listed crush.

The only time anyone should exceed calculated crush depth is if something is horribly wrong and you've lost control of your boat. In which case perhaps that little extra padding after crush depth will give you time to repair something or for your boat to find a shovelfull of sand placed by God on the ocean floor.

[Vortex]

Thanks for the tip about not using maximum rudder. That helped.

And it looks like the answer to getting a boat to go deeper than test in RFB is - you can't. That's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some obscure command.

Just a note, I think I may have been reading something recently here about a Balao reaching 700ft. But of course these measures were only taken in desperation (Deeper chief, deeeper...). This site really does have a fine virtual tour of the Pampanito if you're interested. But just make sure you disable Flashblock first if you're using that addon in Firefox.

http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

I did finish up my first patrol in RFB, and was gloriously successful - winning the Medal of Honor. In fact, a little too successful for my liking. I found a convoy returning home from Northern Luzon to Southern Formosa, and did three end arounds/attacks on those poor nips until I had sunk every single worthwhile target. And through all this I never got so much as a single depth charge dropped, and was only weakly pinged once for a few seconds. This from a convoy with 5 escorts, and many more anti sub capable warships in the normal formation. So I'm back to Trigger Maru for now (my MoH was reduced to a Navy Cross in that mod, heh) and we'll see what happens. I've been tweaking my deck watch so I will hopefully get more warning time with air attacks this time. And if I still really feel I need to puss out - I'll try Webster's 'Better Air Patrols' mod next.

Wish me good hunting, and thanks again for the help.

[zosX]

you should try trigger maru with run silent run deep. more realistic contact frequency and much more aggressive destroyers. once they pick you up they won't let you go easily.