great at SH3, crappy at SH4 - what am i doing wrong?

[taukarrie]

i was pretty much a sub ace in SH3, usually playing around 50% realism, manually targeting with help from the weapons officer and the eye in the sky. i figured i would have to adjust a bit for SH4 but its taking me about a dozen save/loads to line up a successful shot on a slow moving large merchant at under 1k away.

obviously my problem lies somewhere in target data gathering. im pretty confident with my ability to determine range and bow angle. but speed is a little more awkeward. im not really sure how it works.

after identifying the target ill click the data tracker on and then determine range and angle, followed by speed. but when i click the little stopwatch button to determine speed i always get a message saying more data is needed in order to determine speed. i then immediately recheck range and bow angle and then speed again and ill get a speed reading.

after all this ill take a look at the attack map and i can clearly tell that the shot will be off according to green line that shows where the torpedo will be travelling. Its so off that i dont even bother taking a shot. (its usually too far behind the target) so what i have to do at this point is manually adjust the speed making a guess based on the target ship's max speed.

im getting pretty good at guessing speed but im getting tired of save/loading. and doing it this way feels really artificial. theres got to be a better way to do this.

[Filson]

This is what I do and most of the time it works:

1. ID the target and lock your scope on it.
2. Get distance/bearing using the stadimeter and put it into TDC.
3. Wait for the target to traverse about 5-10 degrees or more (you can lower your scope and follow with sonar). You can prep your fish or whatever during this time.
4. Take another distance/bearing using the stadimeter and put it into TDC.
5. Go to the speed part and click the watch icon and enter it into the TDC (this will display the speed and the heading of the target in the message area).
6. Go to the AOB section. Using the heading (the heading is on the TDC, not on the device where you enter the information) from the previous step or eyeballing it, enter the AOB and send to TDC. You may need to fiddle with this a bit.
7. TURN ON THE TDC's POSITION KEEPER.
8. Go to the distance/bearing section and click on the send button to realign the heading (it is not necessary to use the stadimeter or anything).
9. Watch the attack map and wait for the attack path marker to get to 180 or 360 (assuming that is how you set up your attack).

Provided the target does not move off course too terribly much (zig zagging) you should score a hit easily. I usually attack from between 1000 and 2000 yards away.

This is pretty much the WernerSobe method (http://www.filefront.com/8894549/SH4_Complete_Setup_and_Ate.wmv) and I believe it is the way the TDC is intended to be used. There are other methods to score manual hits, though.

The other thing I do not know 100% is whether you have to be stopped for this to work properly; I suspect the TDC is able to calculate your boat's movement. I usually attack from a dead stop, just to be sure, though.

C Filson

[magic452]

With map contacts ON, it is very easy to get a good target speed.

Just mark the position of the target on the map, at the end of the sonar line or the radar position mark. Wait till the position mark jumps and then mark a X and start the stop watch. Wait 3 minutes (3.25 minutes for metric) and mark another X. Measure the distance between the marks and that will give you target speed. 100 yards/meters = 1 knot, 900 yards = 9 knots, etc.

Do this twice and you also will get a good target course by extending the line.

The speed calculator in the TDC isn't very good unless you get very good range/bearing and AoB data. I never use it but use the 3 minute rule instead.

@ Filson the TDC/PK will calculate a good firing solution even if your boat is moving, no need to be stopped.

Magic

[taukarrie]

With map contacts ON, it is very easy to get a good target speed.

Just mark the position of the target on the map, at the end of the sonar line or the radar position mark. Wait till the position mark jumps and then mark a X and start the stop watch. Wait 3 minutes (3.25 minutes for metric) and mark another X. Measure the distance between the marks and that will give you target speed. 100 yards/meters = 1 knot, 900 yards = 9 knots, etc.

Do this twice and you also will get a good target course by extending the line.

The speed calculator in the TDC isn't very good unless you get very good range/bearing and AoB data. I never use it but use the 3 minute rule instead.

@ Filson the TDC/PK will calculate a good firing solution even if your boat is moving, no need to be stopped.

Magic


i like this idea and im definately going to try it but i just want to make sure i understand the marking process correctly.

i do in fact play with map contacts on. when you say to make a mark at "the end of the sonar line or the radar position mark" are you talking about the target's sillouette on the map? if so where on the sillouette are you saying to mark? (bow, stern, middle?)

Not sure what you mean by the position mark "jumping". since the target's sillouette on the map moves in real time there really isnt any jumping like you would see just watching a sonar or radar display... unless that's what youre suggesting i do, which i wouldnt have a problem with.

[sergei]

If a contact is outside visual range, but within radar range, then every time the radar sweeps over it updating the contacts position it will appear to 'jump' forward.
As you have found, if the contact is within visual range it will move smoothly, so you will not need to worry about this.

Where to mark the contact (bow, stern)?
Doesn't matter, as long as you remain consistent!

[magic452]

If you're tracking a convoy with sonar you will get the same sweep effect on the map as with radar. Radar sweeps are about 30 seconds and sonar 20 seconds.
Sonar using fallow nearest contact will show smooth movement.

If you have silhouette, just mark the stern each time.
If you are getting silhouettes you have them in visual range.
Outside visual you should only have sonar bearing lines. Blue for warships, black = merchants.

Radar contacts are a box, if I remember right????

Magic

[Pisces]

...
6. Go to the AOB section. Using the heading (the heading is on the TDC, not on the device where you enter the information) from the previous step or eyeballing it, enter the AOB and send to TDC. You may need to fiddle with this a bit.
...I suggest to use the "Target AOB RB FIX" mod or whatever it is called. It synchronises/links the movement of the AOB dial (on the right) to the upper dial in the positionkeeper panel (left). You only need to turn it once to where the target symbol on the left dial points to the right course. No more fiddling.

[Filson]

I suggest to use the "Target AOB RB FIX" mod or whatever it is called. It synchronises/links the movement of the AOB dial (on the right) to the upper dial in the positionkeeper panel (left). You only need to turn it once to where the target symbol on the left dial points to the right course. No more fiddling.

That would be nice! Do you know if it will work with TMO and RSRD? I don't want to find out it breaks those after installing it. I can't think of why it would, but ya never know.

C Filson

[Pisces]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152945

This is the thread that explains the tdc fix. I made the modifications by hand I think. But the mod package contains folders for different major mods. Not sure what TMO version though. RSRD is just a campaign mod. Afaik, it doesn't do anything to the user interface screens. If you use JSGME (as it is intended) then disabling the mod is very simple and safe.