Enlarge the community ?

[Nexus7]

Since the #1 problem for sub simmers is the niche character of the genre, why not put some effort in expanding the community catching other areas ?

For example:

Sonalyst added helo, airplane and a frigate to the playable units as a development of Sub Command to Dangerous Waters (I don't know what the real intention was). Why don't do something similar in the SH series ?

Dangerous Waters is IMO not suitable to route flight-simmers into sub simulators, because of the too raw graphics. I guess that while this doesnt matter for an hardcore sub-simmer, "what you see", 3D, landscape and all, is vital for a flight-simmer. Further, the playable frigate in DW is the most difficult unit to man. Further, DW has been poorly adverzised.

Because of this, SH could be more suitable to drive flight-simmers to our genre, by making the airplanes playable.
Would that happen, this yould yeld the wanted good results:
- more sales for SH
-> more add-ons
-> higher chance of developments
-> faster patches

[Task Force]

sad fact is... the sh world dosent look too good from the sky...:yep:

(look at sh4, in some mods that allow you to free view higher...)

the ocean looks horriable...

I think it would take more time and effort than it should... because they would have to put in flight physics and stuff...

[JU_88]

sad fact is... the sh world dosent look too good from the sky...:yep:

(look at sh4, in some mods that allow you to free view higher...)

the ocean looks horriable...

I think it would take more time and effort than it should... because they would have to put in flight physics and stuff...

In Sh3, yes - the horizon glitches and the sea textures look 'tiled' especially in rough seas.

There are limits, if we wanted playable destroyers and aircraft, it could have be done - but the trade off would be a n 80% less detailed U-boat Sim.

It would either be:

A Detailed Uboat sim.
Or an Arma II style: battle of Atlantic war game.

We aint getting both in the same title, unless we are each offering to pay Ubi around 50k each for additonal the development costs (of what would still be considered a niche title) .[/

[Dowly]

It would be great to be able to patrol the seas in an airplane etc.

But like Ju88 said, it's a trade off. Sadly so. :cry:

[JU_88]

How to make a Uboat sim appeal to the masses?

Maybe Have a 'PIMP my UBOAT' section where you can paint your boat flurescent lime green, add neons and a Turbo charged Diesel engine with Nitrous Oxcide cansters.
You can then Complete with other 'Pimped' vessles in illegal canal races around the waterways of venice :)

Donitz Could wear lots of 'bling' and get tattoos everywhere. he'd have to work out first athough....

[Dowly]

Donitz Could wear lots of 'bling' and get tattoos everywhere. he'd have to work out first athough....

Maaaaybe not. :doh:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/Finnish_Ferret/Untitled-1-31.jpg

[JU_88]

:haha::har:

[Dowly]

Ow we definitely need this pimp my boat approach! It would give abit more punch to the boring radio messages and such.

Hitler: England, ya gots nahh choice but ta surrender! Dont be mad stupid!
Churchill: Nuts! We will fight on da beaches, on da hills, everywhere we's need ta! brace yourself foo'!
*Roosevelt joins the discussion*
Roosevelt: Oh wha da dily yo, Churchill? Mind if we's join da fun?
Hitler: And what ya going ta do about dis here? Doenitz's boats iz already sinking yo' ships, foo'!
Roosevelt: Whatever, we's got mo' ships than ya can sink. what the **** sup now?
Hitler: I will smoke myself 'bfoe surrendering ta ya!
Churchill: Dont forget ta take da safety off! Ya' dig?

:haha:

[KeptinCranky]

:har: Dowly

Pimp Uncle Doenitz.... :yeah:

[oscar19681]

I no !! I can see it all happing when we return from a succesfull patrol and donitz awaits us in lorient saying , WAAAAZZZUUPP biiaaaachhh!!! I got a fine ass knightcross for yo ass!

[DarkFish]

Maybe Have a 'PIMP my UBOAT' section where you can paint your boat flurescent lime green, add neons and a Turbo charged Diesel engine with Nitrous Oxcide cansters.Why no "Pimp My Captain" section? since it's gonna be 1st person shouldn't we be able to pimp ourselves?:yeah:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Lemmy-02.jpg/398px-Lemmy-02.jpg
He's got the knights cross alright:DL

[martes86]

Destroyer Command 2 is the answer boys and girls. :DL:ping:

[Dowly]

He's got the knights cross alright:DL

ROFL! Lemmy's so old he propably earned that Cross. :haha:

[gdogghenrikson]

I say don't enlarge the community, because I don't want to see SH5 "dumbed down for the masses"
example, I do not want to see 1st person torpedo firing

[Takeda Shingen]

Destroyer Command 2 is the answer boys and girls. :DL:ping:

Or, it would have been if Destroyer Command 1 had attained any mark of financial success. Personally, there is nothing about the SH2-DC fiasco that I am willing to revisit.

[Brag]

To enlarge the community it will be necessary to change the name to:

Soupsim.com

[nattydread]

Im not sure how appealing flights as a Condor, Ju88, B24, etc would be. I guess it would be lots of TC until a contact or vector is provided, then fly to the area, do a visual search, acquire the target and dive on it. Drop, climb up for a minute turn and drop again...then fly home. Yay!

I guess its not much different than what we do now...but atleast we get to engage the target for a substantial amount of time, and we can usually get more than two runs on it.

Escorts would be a lot of TCing also...but once again, when you engage the target, you get a substantial period of time in contact with the target.

[THE_MASK]

If SH5 is great out of the box it will sell itself .

[mookiemookie]

Im not sure how appealing flights as a Condor, Ju88, B24, etc would be. I guess it would be lots of TC until a contact or vector is provided, then fly to the area, do a visual search, acquire the target and dive on it. Drop, climb up for a minute turn and drop again...then fly home. Yay!

I guess its not much different than what we do now...but atleast we get to engage the target for a substantial amount of time, and we can usually get more than two runs on it.

Escorts would be a lot of TCing also...but once again, when you engage the target, you get a substantial period of time in contact with the target.

Well, seeing as this is a picture of the air wing Goering detached for naval use:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/2183279941_b479b2302d.jpg?v=0

...that may not be the most historical of simulations. :03:

(yes, yes, I know I'm exaggerating. But not by much!)

[nattydread]

I thought he occasionally dispatched a Condor or something...though that soon stopped after a while.

[JU_88]

Goering mounted attacks on north sea shipping & arctic convoys - mostly with Ju88s / 87s, He111s & Condors.

The only thing I have ever read on air cover for U-boats was over Biscay.
After much pleading and begging from Donitz, Goering gave up a few JU88cs (heavy fighter version) to interecept ASW aircraft such as the Sunderland/Catalina/Hudson etc,
But when the Brits responded by sending Mosquitos & beaufighters the 88cs were Toast.
Goreing replaced the JU88cs with single seat FW 190s to cover Biscay, but they were state of the art fighters, in big demand - so they were eventatually reassigned elsewhere.

I believe ther ever increasing Ailled air cover (especially Escort carriers & M.A.Cs) put an end to the FW Condor as Maritime bomber, They never co-operated with U-boats anyway, they just did their own thing.

Was a simliar story for Coastal Command in Britain, until the lend lease Aircaft came though from the states, they mostly had to manage with a handful of Sunderlands and Bomber Commands outdated rejects.

[nattydread]

Weither they cooperated with the subs or not, there was still an air component to the Naval war. Im not saying it would be very robust...but it could be an option for those who want to experience it...this is sort of the venue for it.

I just hope they get the flight model more believeable before they do it...the aircraft in SH4 sucked! It looked like they applied the sea gull flight model to the planes. I wasnt sure if they were trying to bomb me or catch bread crumbs one of my crew was throwing into the air.

[JU_88]

Weither they cooperated with the subs or not, there was still an air component to the Naval war. Im not saying it would be very robust...but it could be an option for those who want to experience it...this is sort of the venue for it.

I just hope they get the flight model more believeable before they do it...the aircraft in SH4 sucked! It looked like they applied the sea gull flight model to the planes. I wasnt sure if they were trying to bomb me or catch bread crumbs one of my crew was throwing into the air.

I agree Aircraft have not been done justice in SH 3 & 4
people forget that Aircaft were responsible for almost half of all U-boat losses.

Looking at the Sh5 trailer there is very short clip of 2 mosquitos attacking the Uboat (viewed thought he periscope) I like what i saw, I just hope it wasnt scripted.

People often argue that 'planes dont matter because you always dive to avoid them' - simple counter argument is this:
The very fact that you can easily dive in time to avoid EVERY single aircraft you encounter, already suggests that something is horribly wrong with them.

Using a comnination of cloud cover and Radar, Coastal Command developed some very VERY sophistacted methods of stalking & ambushing U-boats from the air.
Some Uboat crews didnt even realise the danger until the bullets started flying.

In Sh3 - radar warning made it possible to effortlessly avoid all aircraft long before they are even sighted by the watch crew.
It was nothing like that in reality.

[mookiemookie]

I agree Aircraft have not been done justice in SH 3 & 4
people forget that Aircaft were responsible for almost half of all U-boat losses.

Looking at the Sh5 trailer there is very short clip of 2 mosquitos attacking the Uboat (viewed thought he periscope) I like what i saw, I just hope it wasnt scripted.

People often argue that 'planes dont matter because you always dive to avoid them' - simple counter argument is this:
The very fact that you can easily dive in time to avoid EVERY single aircraft you encounter, already suggests that something is horribly wrong with them.

Using a comnination of cloud cover and Radar, Coastal Command developed some very VERY sophistacted methods of stalking & ambushing U-boats from the air.
Some Uboat crews didnt even realise the danger until the bullets started flying.

In Sh3 - radar warning made it possible to effortlessly avoid all aircraft long before they are even sighted by the watch crew.
It was nothing like that in reality.

This. A million times this.

I want to be scared of planes. Not amused by them as in SH3, or minorly annoyed by them as in SH4.

[JU_88]

yeah I remeber finding a good articale on Coastle commands ASW procedures. wish i could find it again.

one tactic was this:
When an aircrew detected a uboat with rader, they would only track it with radar long enough to mark its postion and establish an aproximate speed and heading,
Then they switched their radar off! -then they would fly for several miles AWAY from the uboat - to give the Uboats radar operator the impression they had not been detected.

Then based on the info they collected ealier they would plot an area of interception ahead of the vessle- e.g fly to the predicted locaton of where the boat might be in say, 20 mins time, (radar still off)

Once they aquired the boat by eye they'd do everything possible to attack out of the clouds - or on a clear day, out of the sun. (BOB style)

Can the devs simulate this? not really no, they'd need volumetric cloud particle for starters...
But they could randomize aircraft dection somewhat -both radar warning and the eyes of the watch crew...that would improve things :)