Destroyers: How do YOU handle them?

[-Danse-]

Small question:

When facing Destroyers that are aware of me and actively searching, I usually try to slink off as quietly and carefully as possible. This has, in the past, led to some horrific depth charging and alot of cheering from the surface.

Live and learn.

Recently, after plotting and attacking a convoy, starting with that big fat T3 first, I found myself in the familiar position of trying to evade two destroyers.

For a change I went on the offensive. Once I had a feel for their depth charge runs, I came to the surface, quickly ID'd them both, and then we took it in turns. They would have a run at me while I flanked as deep as I dared while turning out of their path, then I would surface and try a shot at one of them using the notepad. (U-195 present sir!).

Long story short, after a couple of misses and a tenacious British Destroyer that actually took two fish to sink her, I finally got both of em. (It was all very Curt Jurgens/Robert Mitchum there for a while.)

I had what I would term superficial damage. The crew was a bit shook up, but again nothing a bit of rest couldn't cure.

I was then safe to go ravage the rest of the convoy with the deck gun. (Nice mix of boats between 1500 and 4000 tonnes.)

To my question. (Finally!) :up:

What do YOU do? Do you go on the offensive, do you have any good tips for slinking off undetected, or even do you have some good depth charge evasion tips?

Inquiring minds want to know! :salute:


Danse

[Armistead]

Obvious what mods your using effects the AI. I've played both TMO and RFB with RSRD and the AI is much better. Try fighting Bungo Pete with TMO, that's a job.

I play for real..I want my men to live. I treat them as if it were real life. So, I never put them in harms way for the fun of it. I start with tracking and try to get in from the side with the least worries or weakest DD.s. I ID each before I attack, so I know what I'm against.

If my attack goes well, but one dd is almost always closer and on the way, I try to set up a stern DTT shot and get one out of the way. I prefer stern, because you're going away. I always use a spread of three and usually get on hit.

I play 100% realism and no updates or cams. So all I can see if what the scope or sonar tell me. Then you have your ears. With good mods, I prefer not to just creep away.

It's a different game when you can't see what's up there. I will stay silent, go slow at times, flank at others. If a dd passes over, that's when you can hit the speed.
When they ping, you can speed up some, but have to be carful, because others may be listening. The pinging ship can't hear you. If you don't use cams and updates, sonar and ears are all you .

If no damage, I will go way deep if possible, but know your limits. If shallow, when one makes a run over me. I will go back full and come up to periscope depth and try to shoot him in the arse. Still, I will do everything possible not to attack TF or Convoys in shallow water...may take some time to track, but I look for that deeper pool in the shallows.

I dance a jog, lots of turns, speed changes. The goal is to get out of the circle of death. Then don't be stupid. If one dd gets contact, the others usually will come back to the hunt.

[surf_ten]

I have tried to do the stern attack method with little success. I prefer not to waste my torps. So I handle escorts with evasion.


I am playing with the 1.63 TMO mod. I avoid any shallow water confrontation. If I don't have at least 300 ft to play with I am not risking my boat or my crews lives.

I have notice that creeping along at 2 kts rigged for silent running about 30-40 ft under the thermo layer masks me fairly well even with their active pinging. I also keep my rudder at 5 to 10 degree turn at all times. I try to turn my sub so that my stern is facing towards the escorts.


When I attack a convey I always drive my boat towards my victims and the convoy survivors. I don't know why but it seems to me that escorts get confused around a sunken sink. Also I 'm hoping the sound of those noisy merchants mask my noise of my sub. I am not even sure that's model into the game but it makes sense to me.

When I'm in a active ping range of an escort and can hear the escort overhead, once I hear the canisters hit the water I dive, hit flank speed and hard rudder and place my stern towards the escorts to minimize my sonar profile. Usually it's a 5-8 second burst of flank speed and drift to my new position. Also after the attack is done I return to my original depth of 30 to 40 feet under the layer.

If they escorts are not directly above me I maintain my creeping speed and dive to a lower depth. After the cans explode I move back to my original depth under the layer.


I have had several convoys attacks where after firing my torpedoes I immediately dived under the thermo layer and escorts never come close to discovering me. I love that when I can pull off a successful attack and still mantain my stealth. I listen and laugh when I hear depth charges explode hundreds of yards away. Usually around my original firing position.

I usually find I can evade even a group of escorts using these techinques.

Watch out for the sneaky escorts that stay drifting up top. You can detect these guys with the passive sonar light. You won't be able to hear them but the sonar light will pick them up and will lite up around their position.

[Rockin Robbins]

What have you done? What HAVE you done? You have evoked the frustration deep in the heart of all submarine captains of WWII. There is a hate in each of our lives, a cruel and savage hate. When we see an Asashio with a bone in its teeth at AoB zero, we know we will shortly be forced to extreme depth at excruciatingly slow speeds, dodging and weaving while every member of the destroyer's crew tries to kill every one of us. WE HATE THEM!:nope:

JUST ONCE in our lives, we would like to do this to one of those. Wouldn't it be great to get them from about two miles away, before they even know we exist? Watch the movie Asashio, We Hardly Knew Ye (http://files.filefront.com/Asashio+I+Hardly+Knew+Ye+4mp4/;13307656;/fileinfo.html), a heartwarming story of revenge, served piping hot! If you lack the ability to watch MP4 movies on your computer, go get VLC Media Player, or stream it online to watch it. Bring popcorn! This will warm your heart.:D

[-Danse-]

Good advice all round!

Good recording too. Liked the triple, quadruple, quintuple backflip that the ship did in it! Best bit had to be hovering the cursor over tube one as it was reloading though.

Progress: 97/100
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Progress: 98/100
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Been there! :D



Danse

[Armistead]

I have tried to do the stern attack method with little success. I prefer not to waste my torps. So I handle escorts with evasion.


I am playing with the 1.63 TMO mod. I avoid any shallow water confrontation. If I don't have at least 300 ft to play with I am not risking my boat or my crews lives.

I have notice that creeping along at 2 kts rigged for silent running about 30-40 ft under the thermo layer masks me fairly well even with their active pinging. I also keep my rudder at 5 to 10 degree turn at all times. I try to turn my sub so that my stern is facing towards the escorts.


When I attack a convey I always drive my boat towards my victims and the convoy survivors. I don't know why but it seems to me that escorts get confused around a sunken sink. Also I 'm hoping the sound of those noisy merchants mask my noise of my sub. I am not even sure that's model into the game but it makes sense to me.

When I'm in a active ping range of an escort and can hear the escort overhead, once I hear the canisters hit the water I dive, hit flank speed and hard rudder and place my stern towards the escorts to minimize my sonar profile. Usually it's a 5-8 second burst of flank speed and drift to my new position. Also after the attack is done I return to my original depth of 30 to 40 feet under the layer.

If they escorts are not directly above me I maintain my creeping speed and dive to a lower depth. After the cans explode I move back to my original depth under the layer.


I have had several convoys attacks where after firing my torpedoes I immediately dived under the thermo layer and escorts never come close to discovering me. I love that when I can pull off a successful attack and still mantain my stealth. I listen and laugh when I hear depth charges explode hundreds of yards away. Usually around my original firing position.

I usually find I can evade even a group of escorts using these techinques.

Watch out for the sneaky escorts that stay drifting up top. You can detect these guys with the passive sonar light. You won't be able to hear them but the sonar light will pick them up and will lite up around their position.

One thing I've noticed and I'm sure it's a bug. I attacked the Hiryu. All out of torps. It was all but sunk, but wouldn't go down. I escaped from the dd's. They were on the other side of the Hiryu at about 3000 yards. I was under the Hiryu. I've never sunk a carrier with a deckgun, don't think it can't be done. But the carrier looked like it was 98% damaged. I even waited a few hours to see if it would sink.

I wanted this thing sunk

I finally came up on the other of it, side by side, even scraping at times. I let go with the DG. I realized that wouldn't do it, so I tried to ram it over. It looked like you could breath on it and it would roll over. When the dd's came, I would dive. However, I wasn't paying enough attention. One dd came around, but wouldn't shoot. I watched. Then all three dd's would make circles around the carrier, but when they came to my side, they wouldn't shoot. They all lighted me up.

I assume if you get that close to a ship, the game programs you not there or doesn't allow the ship to shoot because of FF. I sunk two dd with my DG while they sat there. Still, I pushed the Hiryu. All of a sudden the last DD blasted me. I saw why, the Hiryu was sinking. I didn't get credit for it, so I assume ramming doesn't score. Not sure what sunk it. It wasn't from my torp damage, because it should have scored if so.

I would never play this way again, not real. I did try it a few more times. I got in a convoy moving and stayed right beside a merchant, scraping close. The dd's ignored me, unless I strayed distance. Now a armed merchant may shoot back, haven't tried it again.

[Berinhardt]

Although there is a great deal of satisifaction in sinking a convoy while the escorts are left scratching their heads, I have found it beneficial to attack escorts using torps, and then engaging the rest of the convoy with the deck gun when feasible.

My general criteria for an offensive escort strategy is:

It's night time or fog/rain conditions to reduce chance of air support
There are only 2-3 escorts (depending on target composition by tonnage - tankers and cruise ship's vs low value freighters)
I'm low on torpedoes. (less than 5 torps left)I have two approaches to this depending on my boat's position. Ideally I try to get in front of the convoy so the lead destroyer is within 600 yards of me when I engage him. This gives him little time to react, and forces the convoy to take evasive manuevers. After the first torp hits the escort, I turn in the direction of the convoy (so stern tubes facing the convoy), launch decoys and go to flank speed for a few seconds, then drift. The remaining escorts typically make a bee line for my location setting up 2 easy "down the throat" attacks at less than 600 yards. Then I surface and attack the convoy with my deck gun which is already facing them with a minimum profile for my boat.

If I can't get in front of the convoy, I'll attack the side escort at close range, turn 90 degrees and then engage the remaining escorts as they race to my location. Again, launching decoys as bait works well. Just don't miss if you're down to your last torp.:D

[VonGlaus]

I just run away.

Although, since re-starting my career with TMO 1.63, the escorts do seem a bit dumber at the beginning of the war. With 1.62 they were all over me, this time they seem to have a bit more trouble locating me if I go deep.

So I get one good set of shots and run away.

"He who sinks and runs away, Lives to sink another day."

[Max2147]

It's obvious, but silent running is your friend. I was sneaking away from a gang of destroyers once, and they were right on top of me all over the map. Then I realized I had forgotten to rig for silent running. I switched it on, and the destroyers instantly scattered.

Once I managed to find a destroyer sitting stopped on the surface at night. I managed to sneak up on him and get a couple shots off, but as soon as he saw the torpedoes coming he shot off like a drag racer.

[gut eater]

My real question is; what are the limits or parameters for what destroyers/sub chasers can detect? I had an incident when I was set up on a convoy, heavy rain/bad visibility, day time. I was rigged for silent running and at periscope depth, waiting for the convoy. Of course, the destroyer came through the kill zone first, on a direct path to go right over me. So knowing this in advance, I dropped periscope, and dropped depth by 20 feet, hoping the destroyer would pass over me undetected. The destroyer was still not visible at this point so I know I couldn't have been, and he had to have been 1500+ yards away.

As I was approx. 80+ feet under, the damned destroyer pinged me and went straight for me with depth charges, ruining my ambush. What I don't get is HOW he detected me. Can anyone explain the limits of what they can and can't do in that situation?

[Otto Heinzmeir]

My real question is; what are the limits or parameters for what destroyers/sub chasers can detect? I had an incident when I was set up on a convoy, heavy rain/bad visibility, day time. I was rigged for silent running and at periscope depth, waiting for the convoy. Of course, the destroyer came through the kill zone first, on a direct path to go right over me. So knowing this in advance, I dropped periscope, and dropped depth by 20 feet, hoping the destroyer would pass over me undetected. The destroyer was still not visible at this point so I know I couldn't have been, and he had to have been 1500+ yards away.

As I was approx. 80+ feet under, the damned destroyer pinged me and went straight for me with depth charges, ruining my ambush. What I don't get is HOW he detected me. Can anyone explain the limits of what they can and can't do in that situation?

I don't have SH4 yet but play SH3 which has similar AI and tactics. Real life may be different but as far as the AI goes. If your sub is in the destroyers Sonar cone he will ping you automatically. The AI has the advantage after all of knowing where every unit is in game. So the AI recognizes your in the DD's sonar cone and auto pings. Especially if you are broadside to him instead of facing him as it presents the sonar a bigger target.

You have to get off to the side and of course in the bad weather it wasn't possible.
I find the AI a bit annoying myself. I mean I doubt a DD captain is going to constantly ping on a voyage that takes a month. They probably did it in some kinda routine. So its a bit unrealistic that the AI auto pings because your in sonar range unless they spot you which searchlights or hear your props which is lot likely in bad weather with silent running.

[Frame57]

Going on the offense is tempting, but the main idea is to sink the merchants which we all know. With a slow moving convoy I usually will plot their course and knuckle around several miles ahead of them to position myself accordingly and wait. One would think that at an all stop with silent running at about 75 feet the AI would not detect me, but usually, magically they do. They manage to do this without active sonar to boot...? So, I found that if I hide under the layer until the first destroyer has passed I come up to PD to attack and then go deep and change course 180 degrees. Then I repeat the process after the convoy has regrouped and has proceeded once again. If Ai has detected you, the only way to evade is to use the thermals and decoys and slip away by sprinting and drifting.

[gut eater]

After posting and reading your replies, I've had some success in waiting beneath the thermolayer (150 ft+) for that first scout destroyer to pass over, then I raise to periscope depth and blast the sob's. I wish they gave the ability in the game to control the destroyers if you wanted just so you knew it's limits (sonar) when going against them. Thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem is that if you are an expert like Ducimus, you know exactly what you can get away with and whether the escorts can detect you at almost all times. In other words, armed with that knowledge, you are just gaming the game. All challenge is then gone, you have a lousy time playing and next week you abandon SH4 forever in favor of Left 4 Dead.:cry:

Doubt and uncertainty is necessary because the real sub captains had little BUT doubt and uncertainty. We want everything cut and dried, with perfect databases of exact target lengths, precise masthead heights, absolute knowledge of enemy search capabilities, perfect torpedoes (no deep runners or circle runners!) and a deck gun that can slug it out with the Yamato.

They were confronted with ONI manuals containing a small fraction of the targets out there, and unreliable information on them, no knowledge about enemy search and ASW capabilities at all, lousy torpedoes so that six erratics, duds, circle runners or any combination could be fired in a single salvo of six shots, and a deck gun that was as hazardous to the shooter as the target.

So the question becomes, do you want a simulation or the naval version of Quake? A simulation MUST include a healthy dose of doubt and uncertainty, as does real life.

[DCOg]

I have a situation/question about Destroyers.
I am 4000 yards behind a large Jap convoy.
I'm on the surface at 18 knots - it's 6 am.
Convoy is travelling @ 13 knots.
Then the destroyers detect me.
Under water even at flank speed I'm down to 8 knots at best.
Even if I managed to survive the destroyers by the time I lose them
the convoy is gone.

How best to handle this?

Thanks
DCOg

[Starforce2]

gotta get around them and park infront someplace.


I don't play with most of the realism on, so with autotarget you can pop DD's like nothing, though in a uboat the DD's are much harder. It depends how many their are and what type. Depending on the situation, I can soemtimes hit a DD surprise with a torpedo, IE rougher seas or if the DD has a cargo between me and it, it don't have a lot of time to see that torpedo. If the convoy has 3 or less I'll try and pop the DD's first. I also once intercepted a line of 4 asashio in the slot during the second battle of the solomans (where we kicked the japs out) they lined up within 700 yards as they passed doing 20 knotts I got one sink, 1 burning, and pegged a third which burned forever and later sunk. I eventualy got all of them. If I use a high speed steam and they are directly head or behind at 15 seconds range, I generaly have'em.

[Rockin Robbins]

Danse, gut eater, starforce, welcome to Subsim, where we're all friendly (or we just rip you to shreds in a friendly way!) and just the most knowledgeable and friendly (did I say that?:D) group of spam in the can anywhere on the planet. Would you believe anywhere under the waves? OK, the friendliest and most knowledgeable you'll meet before noon today.

As far as the escorts go, it all depends on what mods you are using. Ironically, the more viscious the escorts are, the more you may need to go on the offensive to be able to even get to the merchies.

Take Ducimus' nasty Trigger Maru Overhauled. Each escort has a cloned copy of Superman aboard. They can detect you silent running below the thermal layer without even pinging you. They can and will charge you at 30 knots when there's no way you should have been spotted. You see, Trigger Maru has nothing to do with reality. It is made to be damned challenging.

Now your late war RSRD convoy usually is six to nine merchies surrounded by four to six escorts. Your first approach you're going to get swarmed, so get in as close as you dare (about 3,000 yards!) and let loose with some shots at the biggest target, looking for overlap so your misses have a chance to tag somebody. Here come the escorts! Turn your tail and it's time to play tag.

One tactic of the TMO (and other) escorts is that one will stop to direct traffic while the others play ring around the rosy making your life miserable. You'll notice that one vanishes from your passive sonar. It's time to buy enough time to come to periscope depth and blast the traffic cop! Come up to periscope depth, take your shot, an almost 100% hit probability, and turn tail. You can probably break contact during the confusion.

Then do an end around out of sight and sonar range to the front of the convoy and do it again. I've had all night battles with five or six separate attacks on the same convoy before daybreak. It's a blast if you don't get greedy. If you do, say hi to St Peter for me, will you?:woot:

[Berinhardt]

The problem is that if you are an expert like Ducimus, you know exactly what you can get away with and whether the escorts can detect you at almost all times. In other words, armed with that knowledge, you are just gaming the game. All challenge is then gone, you have a lousy time playing and next week you abandon SH4 forever in favor of Left 4 Dead.:cry:

Doubt and uncertainty is necessary because the real sub captains had little BUT doubt and uncertainty. We want everything cut and dried, with perfect databases of exact target lengths, precise masthead heights, absolute knowledge of enemy search capabilities, perfect torpedoes (no deep runners or circle runners!) and a deck gun that can slug it out with the Yamato.

So the question becomes, do you want a simulation or the naval version of Quake? A simulation MUST include a healthy dose of doubt and uncertainty, as does real life.

I tend to agree with Rockin Robbin, as I am looking for a SubSim, not an arcade game. But I would still imagine that sub skippers shared strategies about evasion tactics, tough ASW areas and crews (aka Bungo Pete). Even in a game, knowing and exploiting the "enemy's" capabilities and weakness is still a realistic battle strategy. However its a little tough to program an effective ASW AI that's cunning enough to get you a chess style match up as in the film "The Enemy Below"

For the arcade player there a variety of "supergun/torp/sub" mods that will add to the fun. For the hardcore there are the realism mods. The great "unknown" for this game is the lack of documentation in the manual. <grin> Which is why I'm on this board, learning from the seasoned sub skippers just as any new sub commander would.


Most days, I think the escorts in the default game are too easy. I've had a few surprises and occassionaly some very persistent escorts. Wish there was a slider in the game options to increase escort difficulty - i.e. turn up their aggressiveness without simply cranking their sensor capabilities to a demonic level.

[C DuDe]

In simple terms.. with the greatest of caution.

Evading a single DD isn't a hard thing to do.. It gets more interesting when you have 5 or 6 trying to sniff you out.

Rule I apply (this goes for single or multiple DD's).
By finding his/their search patterns and acting accordingly I manage to sneak out of harm's way.
Most rewarding when after a couple of hours with TC at 8x max.
(Seems to me when you increase TC to 16 or higher the DD all of a sudden are able to find you and kill you before you get the chance to go to real time or having to start the evading all over again).

What I do is:
On the NAV map I take my trusted pen and start drawing crosses following the DD(s) (all at the same time) and after a while you'll start to see patterns then I try and find the exit in the maze of crosses I place over the course of 30min's..

Some time when you're real lucky you can predict a near collision to come between DD's, this is a sure exit... plot a course behind the DD's, when you behind them plot a course away from them (take notice you don't get in the path of the other DD's if there are more of them). They won't be able to hear you nor will they be able to ping you.

Don't know if this is the way they did it in RL but it’s nice and give great satisfaction when you elude them after a long cat and mouse game.

PS_ works in near shallow water, say up to 125Ft (never exactly took any measurements to figure out to what depth it works) or when there's no thermo layer to get under.


Hope this helps some of you, it's a long hall but well worth it.

:salute:

[Hawkeye-07]

I use highly aggressive tactics against IJN DDs - and they consistently work for me.

I'm playing SH4 Gold vanilla. I use external view - this is my veteran sonar operator substitute - this is a game and I have a real life, so I do not have the time sit for hours on end underwater trying to become a skilled sonar operator.

At periscope depth at night I set up ahead of a convoy, engines stopped. As the lead DD approaches, I sink below the thermal layer and let him pass, then go back to PD to await the fat merchants at about a 10 degree diagonal facing toward their approach course and will go slow ahead for a few minutes to close the distance some. I pick two medium sized merchants (a tanker is always good, if available), one ship front line middle of the column and another on the flank nearest me in the second line. I engage the far target first with two torps, then lock on and turn towards the second ship at ahead slow. As the lock indicator gets near 10 degrees I center the rudder and stop the engines. As the boat slows to 1 knot, I fire on ship #2 with two torps.

This merchant attack method results in the two ships being hit at just about the same time. I found that if I wait for the second ship to move forward after engaging the first ship (rather than turning towards the second ship to get a good lock and reducing the time between engagements), the torps reach the first ship much sooner than the second and often the second ship has time to maneuver to avoid impact.

The merchant attack generally gives me one disabled ship and one severely damaged (sometimes, one ship is destroyed). Having one ship disabled is important. As long as he sits there burning, the remaining merchants hang around. That is good, because I want more of them later. It is a lot like fishing for dolphin; as long as you keep one on the line in the water, the school stays with him.

I remain at PD and now focus on the DDs. They will come to you. I lock in on the nearest DD hunting me and put the engines into back slow and adjust the rudder to get a zero degree lock. I ping the DD repeatedly. While I wait for the DD to close the distance, I select all torps and set each one to high speed magnetic and impact and open all doors. I want every tube ready to fire immediately.

Now it is just a baiting game with the DDs and keeping track of them. I stay locked on the nearest one. I repeatedly ping him. When that DD reaches a distance of about 550', it's time to light him up with one torp and immediately lock on (but not fire) with another tube and kick the engines into back flank. If the DD turns to evade the first torp, I kick in hard rudder to maintain a good lock. My increased engine speed slows the DD closing rate and increases my turn rate to keep the good lock if he tries to evade. Most of the time, the first torp takes the DD out; if it doesn't, the second one will.

Now I shift to the next nearest closing DD. When the second DD sees the first one explode, he will change course and it is important to adjust rudder and engine speed to keep a good lock on him and to keep pinging him to encourage him to turn toward me and attack. If he continues to attack, he will go to the bottom.

After the second DD is destroyed, and if no others are attacking nearby, I stay at PD and hit forward flank and engage the next good merchant target while maintaining situational awareness of all remaining DDs. Sometimes they will attack, sometimes not. If they don't attack, I put the merchants in my fish box. If they do attack, I put the DDs in my fish box.

At PD, the DDs must come to you to hurt you. When they are close (real close), they generally cannot maneuver fast enough to avoid a fast torp. Even if they do, they cannot hit you with DCs because they have turned away. I have never suffered any serious damage from their deck guns at PD. I use Mark 10 torps.

This DD attack method works at night (don't try this in daylight) against the DDs that lack the ability to hurl DCs to the sides. With DDs that have the DC fan launch capability, in the early part of the war, I engage one fat merchant for a kill, then go deep and slow and slink away. If later in the war with Cutie and electric torps available, I will engage the nearest DD with two Curies (1 at about 900' and the 2nd at about 700') before going deep. If I'm lucky, I'll get a good hit on that DD with a Cutie; sometimes the Cutie will hit another DD who joins in the hunt and gets too close and too slow to the targeted DD. During the long game of tag that then plays out, one of the DDs will always go to stationary. I set up on the stationary DD to his rear flank out of his sonar fan and light him up with an electric torp aimed halfway forward of mid-ship. Lights out, sucker!

When I first began playing, I feared the DDs. Not anymore.

Good hunting.

[Armistead]

Danse, gut eater, starforce, welcome to Subsim, where we're all friendly (or we just rip you to shreds in a friendly way!) and just the most knowledgeable and friendly (did I say that?:D) group of spam in the can anywhere on the planet. Would you believe anywhere under the waves? OK, the friendliest and most knowledgeable you'll meet before noon today.

As far as the escorts go, it all depends on what mods you are using. Ironically, the more viscious the escorts are, the more you may need to go on the offensive to be able to even get to the merchies.

Take Ducimus' nasty Trigger Maru Overhauled. Each escort has a cloned copy of Superman aboard. They can detect you silent running below the thermal layer without even pinging you. They can and will charge you at 30 knots when there's no way you should have been spotted. You see, Trigger Maru has nothing to do with reality. It is made to be damned challenging.

Now your late war RSRD convoy usually is six to nine merchies surrounded by four to six escorts. Your first approach you're going to get swarmed, so get in as close as you dare (about 3,000 yards!) and let loose with some shots at the biggest target, looking for overlap so your misses have a chance to tag somebody. Here come the escorts! Turn your tail and it's time to play tag.

One tactic of the TMO (and other) escorts is that one will stop to direct traffic while the others play ring around the rosy making your life miserable. You'll notice that one vanishes from your passive sonar. It's time to buy enough time to come to periscope depth and blast the traffic cop! Come up to periscope depth, take your shot, an almost 100% hit probability, and turn tail. You can probably break contact during the confusion.

Then do an end around out of sight and sonar range to the front of the convoy and do it again. I've had all night battles with five or six separate attacks on the same convoy before daybreak. It's a blast if you don't get greedy. If you do, say hi to St Peter for me, will you?:woot:

I think the DD's are too powerfull in TMO, but fun. Seems they can home in on radar and like you said, a few in godmode that always know where you are. Would like it a little more real..maybe RFB has that balance.

I do like to come up now and pop the sitting duck listening...just use M18's..they always run out of the way of my M14