TMO - What's the % of dud/defective torps 1942?

[Crimguy]

In April of 42 I just sent 10 fish out at a couple big targets. Of those 10, 7 blew up before reaching target, 2 ran too deep, and one made contact.

Such is life I guess. I'm curious if this is about right for that time period. Wind was 15 m/s, and all torps were set to about 20ft deep.

TIA,
Matt

[groomsie]

In April of 42 I just sent 10 fish out at a couple big targets. Of those 10, 7 blew up before reaching target, 2 ran too deep, and one made contact.

Such is life I guess. I'm curious if this is about right for that time period. Wind was 15 m/s, and all torps were set to about 20ft deep.

TIA,
Matt

Others can offer more details, but off the cuff that sounds about right. Last night (June 1942) I sent 2 in calm seas, first one dudded and second ran deep. I reset solution and fired 2 more, missed with 1 vs maneuvering target, 4th hit.

For that time period my understanding is you can drop dud rate by:
- Using contact detonator only (address prematures, and rough seas makes worse).
- Use slow speed if you can
- Set for shallowest possible depth (~3' in game, IIRC in RL they set for 0').

[groomsie]

Try these for a few:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121390&highlight=failure
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97456

[tater]

100% should be running deep*, though I think in TMO this is set to vary slightly since the player KNOWS that they all ran deep, and could therefore easily correct when they would not have in RL.

*all US fish ran deep because they were calibrated with test warheads that did not weigh the same as the real warheads. The mk14s ran 10-11ft deep (100% of the time until re-calibrated), and the mk10s ran 4ft deep I think (luke knows the real number, I don't have it off the top of my head).

[Platapus]

Try equipping your sub with MK 10's. I don't play TMO any more, I use RFB and I think the dud rate for MK 14s in RFB are about 110% :(

[tater]

Use them on contact at low speed if it's driving you nuts.

[Armistead]

The problem with contact only is you may get less prematures, but you get more duds. Duc said he programmed it that way. I do believe low speed and sharper angles are programmed to help deal with it.

So I use contact and shoot at sharper angles...seldom a premature and less duds.

Before I was getting so many prematures I thought I would go nuts, can't imagine what a skipper felt like.

Just remember Morton on the next to last patrol had all torps dud that he shot at several ships. He gave up and brought the remaining 14 or so back.

[A Very Super Market]

Your torps will be horrible and disagreeable buggers until 1943, expect the rate to be 80%+

[Sailor Steve]

For that time period my understanding is you can drop dud rate by:
- Using contact detonator only (address prematures, and rough seas makes worse).
- Use slow speed if you can
- Set for shallowest possible depth (~3' in game, IIRC in RL they set for 0').
Good advice. If only the real skippers could have taken it. Their problem was that at first they had no idea what was happening. All they knew was that something was wrong, and when they tried to tell their bosses (Admiral English at Pearl Harbor and especially Admiral Christie in Australia) they were told to stop making excuses for poor shooting. It wasn't until Admiral Lockwood replaced English that something was done.

Here's a good recounting of the whole sordid tale:
http://www.historynet.com/us-torpedo-troubles-during-world-war-ii.htm

[rubenandthejets]

I don't even bother wth Mk14s-straight to the deck gun!
I'd be boarding with a cutlass if I could.

[NEON DEON]

I don't even bother wth Mk14s-straight to the deck gun!
I'd be boarding with a cutlass if I could.

Arrrgh! :arrgh!:

The problem with plain old SH IV Mk 14s is that they are spot on.

Now why is that a problem. Like quoted in above posts, The 14 was a killer weapon if you know whats wrong with it. So in order to simulate history you have to screw the Mk 14 even more than it was in real life. Anotherwords for gameplay reality correctness instead of the real deal. Or something like that. So it is forced reality.
Now that I think of it maybe the original SH4 before some patches meant to force the magnetic exploder to the on mode on purpose.:)

[Armistead]

Finally August of 43....not one dud or premature...about died, mix of 14's and 18's.

[groomsie]

For that time period my understanding is you can drop dud rate by:
- Using contact detonator only (address prematures, and rough seas makes worse).
- Use slow speed if you can
- Set for shallowest possible depth (~3' in game, IIRC in RL they set for 0').
Good advice. If only the real skippers could have taken it. Their problem was that at first they had no idea what was happening. All they knew was that something was wrong, and when they tried to tell their bosses (Admiral English at Pearl Harbor and especially Admiral Christie in Australia) they were told to stop making excuses for poor shooting. It wasn't until Admiral Lockwood replaced English that something was done.

Here's a good recounting of the whole sordid tale:
http://www.historynet.com/us-torpedo-troubles-during-world-war-ii.htm

Agreed, by doing these things (especially so "early" as I am talking in mid-1942) it presumes that you know and understand the problem, when in fact most/all skippers in RL at that time may have suspected problems but given that there were multiple problems it is unlikely that you would put it all together on your own so to speak.

Also, as frustrating as it is to fire 4 torps and get only 1 hit, RL skippers dealt with this and worse, with their hides on the line (I shudder thinking of working for a good solution under pressure on say a DD and having a dud torpedo leave you and your crew vulnerable and scrambling for your lives...)

[Armistead]

Onlt tried RFB one mission, but gonna give it a go on my next career. If I'm correct with TMO, contact setting gives you less prematures but more duds...seems so, they may all hit, but dud. TMO does help if you use slow speed and sharper angles.

Does RFB work the same way?

[tater]

Yes. It has realistic failure rates for different dates and impact parameters.

[groomsie]

Continuing my patrol referenced earlier in this thread, last night I had a great set-up on a Medium Modern Composite, range ~ 600 yards in med-rough seas. This is June 1942. I fired 3 Mk14s, and you guessed it 3 duds. Fired the 4th from the bow, dud as well. By now the target is alert and maneuvering, firing at my periscope as I turn to bring aft to bear. I fire 2 aft torpedoes, hitting with 1 but it is yet another dud (I watched this one hit and it appeared that despite the angle being ~ 45 back from targets port beam (that is on port quarter) it was running so low it deflected off the curve of the underside of the target hull)). I had heard another merchant coming from the East (I'm maybe 50 miles west of Rabaul) so I break off to reload and reset.
Another medium modern composite. Similar set-up, but I start out with stern tubes. Again, similar outcomes (except by this time I have an aircraft come out to investigate and chase me under). I eventually surface and sink the second merchant with gunfire, now in process of chasing down the first merchant for a sunset attack that I plan to set up.
So, right now the tally is 15 total torpedoes fired, 12 hits, but of these 11 were duds. I'm running an 80% "hit" rate, but a 91% dud rate for those hits. Feels a bit high but certainly there are stories of subs in RL that experienced that or worse...

Seems right now I just need to survive until the torpedoes are improved.

[groomsie]

So finished my patrol last night, chasing down that merchant and getting into attack position ahead of him at sunset, range ~ 500 yards. Fired all 4 stern tubes (figuring if I'm lucky 1 goes off), 2 contact, 2 magnetic. All 4 hit and went off, target destroyed. Figures, wasted 2 torps I figure.
Sonar then detects another merchant approaching from the east, a little observation and I realize he's also coming right at me, so I set up for a bow shot, range ~ 600 yards. I fire the remaining 3 bow torpedoes at the medium old composite and--you guessed it--all 3 hit and exploded. Again, at least 1 torp wasted (with more reliable torps at that range I'd fire just 1 for a small or medium and then depending on how much of a hurry I'm in and/or how the target is faring, will fire another torp, finish with deck gun, or just wait...).
So, overall for the patrol out of 22 torpedoes, had 3 misses, 19 on target but 11 defective (either outright duds or ran under target--no prematures though), 8 worked (my first and last 7 for the patrol): 86% on target, 42% of those on target functioned as intended (or at least inflicted damage).