Planes are starting to annoy me

[PoweredBySoy]

Hi, friends.

Started playing this game a few weeks ago and almost immediately upgraded to the latest TMO mod.

I'm noticing that the search planes in this game are really poorly coded, and after awhile they really start to detract from the enjoyment of this game. And it's not that I'd have a problem with a large Japanese air force, but it's the way they appear that gets bothersome. 95% of the time they appear on my radar, miles out, on a direct interception course. As such, I have to crash dive. I'll stay submersed for about 20 minutes and then resurface to run on diesels. Then, almost like clockwork, 5 minutes later another plane will appear on radar - repeat. The 'crash dive dance' is annoying.

I also noticed that the TMO mod states that it significantly reduces plane spawning. I can't even imagine what it must be like in vanilla.

Are there any mods that further reduce plane spawning - or at least randomize their flight headings so it doesn't always look like they're magically gunning right for me?

Thanks.

[Falkirion]

Grab RSRD, should cut down on aircraft contacts. I dont use TMO though. In RFB the only aircraft contacts I had were a pair of Zeros flying a cap around PNG while I was transiting the area for my patrol area. Only aerial contact for my entire patrol

[I'm goin' down]

Falkirion, youremblem is one of the most understated, subtle emblems in the forum!!!!

[jazzabilly]

Running RFB 1.52 w/RSRDC

I am currently driving a Porpoise class boat in June of '42; as a prelude to Midway I managed to hurt Nagumo's force (sank a Kongo) and tried following up when I was attacked by a Val. A/C seemed to be buzzing around (ours and theirs, I assume) but not attacking (me).

What would have been nice, however, is some radio traffic that I could/would have heard giving me a clue as to what was happening and where the invasion force/carrier strike force was. I did manage, however, to come accross a sinking USS Yorktown and USS Hammann, however. That was kinda cool.

[rubenandthejets]

I'm playing Vanilla and yes, in areas with good air cover, the planes get pretty annoying. :shifty: Most days I don't even bother coming to the surface, just tooling along at 30m+ at 2-3 knots. Might pop up for a radar scan or two. Might risk it a bit more in typhoon season but otherwise, like the old Blue Oyster Cult song-"I love the night".

[Torplexed]

Hi, friends.

Started playing this game a few weeks ago and almost immediately upgraded to the latest TMO mod.

I'm noticing that the search planes in this game are really poorly coded, and after awhile they really start to detract from the enjoyment of this game. And it's not that I'd have a problem with a large Japanese air force, but it's the way they appear that gets bothersome. 95% of the time they appear on my radar, miles out, on a direct interception course. As such, I have to crash dive. I'll stay submersed for about 20 minutes and then resurface to run on diesels. Then, almost like clockwork, 5 minutes later another plane will appear on radar - repeat. The 'crash dive dance' is annoying.

I also noticed that the TMO mod states that it significantly reduces plane spawning. I can't even imagine what it must be like in vanilla.

Are there any mods that further reduce plane spawning - or at least randomize their flight headings so it doesn't always look like they're magically gunning right for me?

Thanks.
Yeah, sometimes the amount of air traffic makes the U-Boat Biscay Bay run look spotty.

I've gotten in the habit of drawing a line along their radar course. Sometimes you can tell when they will just miss your radius of visibility. Needless to say if you hear the signal 'aircraft spotted' it's crash dive time.

The Japanese kept a lot of aerial training squadrons based in the home islands. However, I really doubt if they were well enough trained to tell the difference between a US sub and a Japanese one. Not to mention how accurately they lob their bombs.

[Falkirion]

The Japanese kept a lot of aerial training squadrons based in the home islands. However, I really doubt if they were well enough trained to tell the difference between a US sub and a Japanese one. Not to mention how accurately they lob their bombs.
Well that may have been in real life but I've had a few close calls with aircraft taking a bombing run on my sub in vanilla and RFB. I remember one Zero made a couple of passes while I tried to fight him off with my AA guns (vanilla with RSRD) before I decided to pull the plug. Crash dive and barely made it beyond periscope depth before I heard an explosion above me. Flicked over to external cam and I saw the foam from a group of bombs that would have nailed me had I been on the surface.

[gimpy117]

sounds like the problem carried over from 1.4 was never fixed by TMO...:roll:

[I'm goin' down]

You might want to check with Webster and see if his fewer airplanes mod might help.

[Webster]

i have a mod to reduce the number and range of planes on my filefront page.


also be aware of the airplane expressways they have in the game. one is from tokyo to pearl and the other is tokyo to ??? i forget but its straight south from tokyo just inside the south china sea near the chain of islands. these highways are filled with planes 24/7 no matter what mod you use (hard coded i believe) so go north or south of the pearl to tokyo line or east or west of the south china sea line and you wont see very many planes unless you get spotted.

[rubenandthejets]

I'd love to get my own back on some of those pesky planes. I've seen a few floatplanes on the surface inside Wake harbour but was too wary of the shore batteries to surface and AAA them. Anyone know where these suckers tend to hang out so I can riddle them in relative safety?
I tried scouting into shallow bays and lagoons at night near places they seem to spawn from earlier that day-nada.

[breadcatcher101]

I'm playing Vanilla and yes, in areas with good air cover, the planes get pretty annoying. :shifty: Most days I don't even bother coming to the surface, just tooling along at 30m+ at 2-3 knots. Might pop up for a radar scan or two. Might risk it a bit more in typhoon season but otherwise, like the old Blue Oyster Cult song-"I love the night".

Early in the war that is just what our boats did during the day time due to the air cover.

Nice song, btw. BOC rocks.

[JonB]

Running 1.5 with TMO

I heard before downloading TMO that planes would be much harder to shoot down so yesterday, I gave it a go

Was attacked on my way home. Before engaging, I saved the game. Lucky me coz these planes shredded my sub on the first run. 4 compartments flooded, 60 % of my crew dead. Batteries at 5 %, all diesel drained out in the ocean. Dived to periscopedepth in a desperate attempt to avoid the second run. Once decending, it kept going down untill crash boom bang....

Quite fun actually :doh:

Though next time I´ll dive immedietly :cool:

[Webster]

Running 1.5 with TMO

I heard before downloading TMO that planes would be much harder to shoot down so yesterday, I gave it a go

Was attacked on my way home. Before engaging, I saved the game. Lucky me coz these planes shredded my sub on the first run. 4 compartments flooded, 60 % of my crew dead. Batteries at 5 %, all diesel drained out in the ocean. Dived to periscopedepth in a desperate attempt to avoid the second run. Once decending, it kept going down untill crash boom bang....

Quite fun actually :doh:

Though next time I´ll dive immedietly :cool:

just in case you missed this little detail on TMO, the planes can often "see" you even at 300' so if your gliding along and suddenly die for no reason, that is why.

[surf_ten]

Running 1.5 with TMO

I heard before downloading TMO that planes would be much harder to shoot down so yesterday, I gave it a go

Was attacked on my way home. Before engaging, I saved the game. Lucky me coz these planes shredded my sub on the first run. 4 compartments flooded, 60 % of my crew dead. Batteries at 5 %, all diesel drained out in the ocean. Dived to periscopedepth in a desperate attempt to avoid the second run. Once decending, it kept going down untill crash boom bang....

Quite fun actually :doh:


Though next time I´ll dive immedietly :cool:

just in case you missed this little detail on TMO, the planes can often "see" you even at 300' so if your gliding along and suddenly die for no reason, that is why.

Wow, I didn't know they could see the boat that deep. I usually creep along about 150 ft. So far I haven't been bomb out of the water even when several planes are inbound to my postion. Thank jeebus for SJ radar!

Usually when I am anywhere close to Japanese territory I stay submerged at 1 knts during daylight hours, surfacing occasionally to clean out C02. I do all my surface patrols at night.

I am not sure if that was realistic, but I figure it will minimize my chances of getting detected and attacked.

I am using the TMO mod as well.

[tater]

just in case you missed this little detail on TMO, the planes can often "see" you even at 300' so if your gliding along and suddenly die for no reason, that is why.

Unless it has changed grossly from the last time I looked, the air-dropped DC types used have 2 det depths, 25m and 45m or something like that. That means you can't be hit below around 45m, period (air-dropped DCs actually blow at their set depths, unlike ship based DCs). That's under 150', BTW.

[Wilcke]

Just some food for thought when considering Japanese Air Cover. Credit for the research goes to Ancient46.

http://www.ussarcherfish.com/warptrl/patrols.htm

"The complete reports for all seven Archerfish patrols in WW2. Patrol 1-11 aircraft contacts; Patrol 2-27 aircraft contacts; Patrol 3-40 aircraft contacts; Patrol 4-39 aircraft contacts; Patrol 5-10 aircraft contacts; Patrol 6-29 aircraft contacts; Patrol 7-3 aircraft contacts."


Thank you!

Happy Hunting!

[donut]

just in case you missed this little detail on TMO, the planes can often "see" you even at 300' so if your gliding along and suddenly die for no reason, that is why.

Unless it has changed grossly from the last time I looked, the air-dropped DC types used have 2 det depths, 25m and 45m or something like that. That means you can't be hit below around 45m, period (air-dropped DCs actually blow at their set depths, unlike ship based DCs). That's under 150', BTW.

Blown to deep 6 @ 150' by A/C. Also,after polishing of 4 ship convoy,& 2 escorts.
2 DD's pick me up @ max Sonar range,cruseing @400' running silent @ 1Kts. Blown to Davy Jones again ! Then he says he put thermal back to stock in 1.6.3:rotfl:
Duci's evil is outa-hand:damn: Webster's better A/C patrols helps some.

[tater]

45m is ~147', there is a depth error in those DCs of a few to several meters.

[PoweredBySoy]

"The complete reports for all seven Archerfish patrols in WW2. Patrol 1-11 aircraft contacts; Patrol 2-27 aircraft contacts; Patrol 3-40 aircraft contacts; Patrol 4-39 aircraft contacts; Patrol 5-10 aircraft contacts; Patrol 6-29 aircraft contacts; Patrol 7-3 aircraft contacts."

And like I was saying, I wouldn't mind it so much if there was a strong presence of Japanese air power. It's more I just think they're poorly presented in this game. Whenever they appear on radar, they're always heading right in your direction - which makes them seem more like a static game mechanic to put you in danger, and less like a living air force. And they often seem to have an uncanny ability to track your sub at 200' down - which of course doesn't stop them from trying to drop surface bombs on me. :-?

That being said, I recently started a new campaign based in Indonesia, and there a lot less planes. In fact, after 2 patrols I don't think I've even seen one yet. Apparently it's just the Japanese mainland that is infested with them.

[Torplexed]

It's more I just think they're poorly presented in this game. Whenever they appear on radar, they're always heading right in your direction - which makes them seem more like a static game mechanic to put you in danger, and less like a living air force.

Sadly, that's the nature of spawning. The planes aren't there to appear unless you're around. On occasion, I have seen some cross perpendicular to my path of travel. Sometimes in front, sometimes astern.

[Rockin Robbins]

If you'll read the infamous "readme that nobody reads" for TMO you will read that very occasionally, not "often", planes can sight you below 100'. The situation is very clearly explained and the modding tradeoffs made known. My personal opinion is that Ducimus' Evil Airplanes, without modification of frequency or sensors, is the greatest single achievement in modding SH4.

Please keep in mind that TMO is not about reality at all. It is about challenging gameplay. In this case, Ducimus has achieved both. The sub captains were also annoyed by airplanes, so I have to give TMO a medal for achieving that realism within the game. Frustration is part of the spectrum of things that need to be simulated in a serious simulation of World War II submarines in the Pacific Theater. Sounds like you're getting the full experience. That's a solid gold success in my book. Too bad it's so easy to change it and ruin the experience.

Also, it you'll follow my procedure for dealing with these evil airplanes you'll see that there are LOTS of airplanes that show up on radar that do not pass overhead, or even close enough to detect you. All observations to the contrary are just wrong.

[Soterius]

This is RIDICULOUS!!! I'm travelling from Surabaya to Manila and it's taken me 2 hours (real time) to get HALF WAY THERE! The planes pop up every minute or so and they just keep coming during my whole journey! I can speed the time up only when in between attacks but the rate at which the planes appear is ridiculous. This way, it's gonna take me 4 days (real time) to finish my patrol. Come on, this may be a simulation game so it may be a bit more difficult but this just makes me want to uninstall the game and never play it again. Seriously, have the developers lost their minds? What person could possibly enjoy this game when this stuff happens???

I'm dead serious, I'm really considering to quit playing and throw the game away. I just can't believe they meesed this game up so big! A game should be fun, this is the opossite...

[Torplexed]

Well...it's a good thing you never picked up SH3 then. In that sim by 1944 the skies are black with Allied planes and your U-Boat has no decent radar to speak of. Crash dive all day. War is all hell.

[Rockin Robbins]

And note that if you are spotted planes will be called in. You will be rightly swarmed. As you would have been in Japanese dominated waters in a real sub.

Oh, there are thousands who enjoy the game. Doubtless there are thousands who do not. But they are not spending time at Subsim. They are playing Unreal Tournament III or Ratchet and Clank. By the way, enemy AI in Unreal Tournament III is lousy.:haha:

[AngronIsAngry]

Sometimes I wonder if there is a spy satellite or something in the game. I'm cruising along to my patrol points not even thinking about radioing in at HQ, having nothing but water and fishies in well over 100 nautical miles in any direction of your liking and out of nowhere I'm getting airborne radar contacts (and from time to time a surprising "Aircraft SPOTTED! Everbody PANIC!").

Have the japs really sent their planes out into the middle of nowhere? It looks like they are throwing darts at a map and send the planes to hereby marked position. If so, I shall never play dart against anyone remotely japanese because they have been pretty good at pinpointing me (at least not at nailing me to the ocean ground).

[Torplexed]

Have the japs really sent their planes out into the middle of nowhere? It looks like they are throwing darts at a map and send the planes to hereby marked position. If so, I shall never play dart against anyone remotely japanese because they have been pretty good at pinpointing me (at least not at nailing me to the ocean ground).
The stock game does ever do the airplane contacts. However, the Japanese did have some aircraft with phenomenal range like the Kawanishi flying boat. Even some of their fighters like the nimble Zero could fly long distances. In reality aircraft might also be 'island hopping'. In transit from one island base to another which would greatly extend their range. However, if you run into one mid-Pacific it does stretch credulity.

[rubenandthejets]

This is RIDICULOUS!!! I'm travelling from Surabaya to Manila and it's taken me 2 hours (real time) to get HALF WAY THERE! The planes pop up every minute or so and they just keep coming during my whole journey! I can speed the time up only when in between attacks but the rate at which the planes appear is ridiculous. This way, it's gonna take me 4 days (real time) to finish my patrol. Come on, this may be a simulation game so it may be a bit more difficult but this just makes me want to uninstall the game and never play it again. Seriously, have the developers lost their minds? What person could possibly enjoy this game when this stuff happens???

I'm dead serious, I'm really considering to quit playing and throw the game away. I just can't believe they meesed this game up so big! A game should be fun, this is the opossite...

Next time just stay on the surface and shoot them all down-that's what the AAA is for.:rotfl:

OK, seriously, just snail through at periscope depth during the day, then get on top once it's dark-in stock 1.4 you're pretty safe at night. TMO though........:o

[surf_ten]

I have TMO and I have yet to be harrashed by planes at night. Unless it happens after 42. Unfortunately, I haven't had a career past 42 (damn recon missions that bring into the inner harbors). I usually travel submerged at 150' during the day and surface close to nightfall to gain distance.

[ancient46]

There is a historical air cover mod that gives instructions on reducing the frequency of air contacts. In the land folder you can go through the Japanese Air bases ans ships to reduce the number of air squadrons available to fly. Both these methods can virtually eliminate airplane flights in the game if that is what you want. No one that likes Submarine games need give up on this game since it can be tailored to your style of play with a little work. One of the finest features in this game is the room it allows Modders to work.

[mcarlsonus]

For the most part, I agree with the OP. However, I've used Webster's mod with quite a bit of success. The WORST offenders, though, in terms of air traffic HAVE to be in the U-Boat Expansion! Those freakin' Brewster Buffalos: always travel in pairs, show up everywhere, show up often, and NEVER attack! They simply slow down the game and are incredibly annoying!

[Soterius]

This is RIDICULOUS!!! I'm travelling from Surabaya to Manila and it's taken me 2 hours (real time) to get HALF WAY THERE! The planes pop up every minute or so and they just keep coming during my whole journey! I can speed the time up only when in between attacks but the rate at which the planes appear is ridiculous. This way, it's gonna take me 4 days (real time) to finish my patrol. Come on, this may be a simulation game so it may be a bit more difficult but this just makes me want to uninstall the game and never play it again. Seriously, have the developers lost their minds? What person could possibly enjoy this game when this stuff happens???

I'm dead serious, I'm really considering to quit playing and throw the game away. I just can't believe they meesed this game up so big! A game should be fun, this is the opossite...

Next time just stay on the surface and shoot them all down-that's what the AAA is for.:rotfl:

OK, seriously, just snail through at periscope depth during the day, then get on top once it's dark-in stock 1.4 you're pretty safe at night. TMO though........:o

Ugh, I have an S-class..no Anti aircraft gun... And I can't stay submerged all day long, my batteries will run out. At this point, I have to crash dive so freakin often that my batteries are at 25% once the night falls (that means diving, surfacing, diving, surfacing and so on until eternity...). During the night I can recharge until 70% or something but I notice that overall the percentage is dropping (tonight I can recharge to 70%, tomorrow I can recharge to 65% and so on, eventually I'll be DEAD!) I haven't reached my patrol area yet but I wonder what happens when I get there...I'm supposed to engage enemy shipping but that won't be possible if I need to submerge every minute. I'm not able to manouver that way, because submerged my top speed is 7 kts or something...

My whole problem is that I can't understand how the developers chose to make it like this. I don't want to use mods, I just want to play the game the way it was intended. I don't want to "cheat" by using mods etc. it shouldn't be necessary to cheat! It should be possible to play the game as it was intended and be able to enjoy it. This is not enjoying, it's ANNOYING. No, it's even worse, not only can I not enjoy the game, I probably can't even PLAY the game because I will be dead soon from either dead batteries or dive bombers... If there is a way to survive, I'd really like to know it because right now I just don't think I can stay alive, let alone fulfill some objectives.

I'm still gonna try though...I refuse to give up. So wish me luck!!


EDIT:

I got half past Borneo and now the planes stopped popping up. FINALLY! But it has taken me at least 2.5 hours in real time of playing the surface-resurface game constantly, literally every minute. I guess I'll live since it finally stopped but 2.5 hours NON STOP up, down, up, down, up, down, it's a miracle I didn't turn into a zombie! I still can't believe the developers created it this way. I like this game because it takes patience, it's the total opposite of an arcade game, I enjoy that very much. But this is far, far, far, far beyond reasonable.

[tomoose]

The super mods, IMHO, are definitely NOT "cheats". If I thought using TMO or RSRD was a "cheat" I wouldn't have dl'd them in the first place. Instead those mods have added what I consider to be a great balance of authenticity and challenge to the game. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not trying one or more of them. They are easily uninstalled if you feel they are "cheats".

It's an accepted fact in the subsim community that the stock game is over the top when it comes to aircraft (among other things). Mods like TMO, RFB and RSRD were created to resolve many issues, one of them being the insane number of planes and the ranges etc causing the exact grief you are going through.

You can either continue with the stock game (which many consider flawed but is a good starting point to become comfortable with the game) and it's frustrations, or you can enjoy the increase in challenge and immersion that certain mods bring to the table. The bonus is that you can tailor the game to your own taste due to the fact that there are enough mods out there to satisfy most players.

Good luck and good hunting.:salute:

[rubenandthejets]

Some more advice for planes....
Get the map tools out and draw a line of the plane's course. You can check which ones you can pretty much dismiss as being unlikely to spot you and just stay on the surface. The stock game has those handy range spotting circles, if the planes' paths will put you near the outer edge of the range circles just ignore them. Change your course to put you near the outer edge and ignore them.

Let them attack you now and then, just to see what happens and to practice evasive manouvers (save before first) You'll find which planes are dangerous on actual attack runs-remember they'll all report your position and ASW ships will come running-and you can decide for yourself if a Betty at high altitude is that much of a threat. Once you get some AA guns, slugging it out with planes is pretty high risk and most players wouldn't recommend it (especially if you have one of the mods that enhance the historical accuracy of air patrols) but it can be a lot of fun too.

Lastly, all those planes will make you really appreciate it when you finally catch one of those stinking Emilys at night, sitting on the surface in some anchorage in the middle of nowhere.

Hang in there!

[Elder-Pirate]

EDIT:

I got half past Borneo and now the planes stopped popping up. FINALLY! But it has taken me at least 2.5 hours in real time of playing the surface-resurface game constantly, literally every minute. I guess I'll live since it finally stopped but 2.5 hours NON STOP up, down, up, down, up, down, it's a miracle I didn't turn into a zombie! I still can't believe the developers created it this way. I like this game because it takes patience, it's the total opposite of an arcade game, I enjoy that very much. But this is far, far, far, far beyond reasonable.


Just how fast are you traveling under water anyway? Although you have a small sub you can kick down the telegraph to 1 kt at sunrise ( PD depth or more ) and at sundown surface and set telegraph to 1/3 ahead. you should have plenty of battery left when you surface and 1/3 speed will save your diesel, for you will need it to return toward base.

I set my speed this way and still use time compression. Dog gone if I'll tackle planes cause I'm looking for ships. Bottom line, stay below surface in the daytime and ride on the surface in the dark of night. Why invite trouble?

[gAiNiAc]

As soon as I get the radar warning I dive to at least 150' at flank and then alter course by 45 degrees. I slow to a creep and let an hour go by. I then go to P-depth raise the RDR Warning mast check if it's clear, surface, and then proceed back on course. That usually avoids 99% of repeat encounters. I've never been sunk by aircraft following this revolution. I'm not even concerned with A/C.

If I feel like plugging one then I stay on top. Which is hardly ever, unless I have a substantial late war AAA battery maneed by gunner rates and I have an Officer with the "Bombard" specialty.

[gAiNiAc]

1/3 speed will save your diesel, for you will need it to return toward base.




1/3 speed? You sure? Standard is the most efficient throttle setting.......??

[Wilcke]

I believe Standard bell will ring up the most mileage. About 10-11 knots or so.

[Rockin Robbins]

I never alter my speed from ahead standard. When I sight an airplane on radar, I draw a 5 mile radius circle around my sub. Sometimes he will stay outside my danger radius. Then I do nothing. If I have to dive I time it so that I am at or below periscope level when he crosses that line. My submergence depth is 100'. I time 5 minutes from when I cross periscope depth and surface without pausing to look for anything. After all nothing could be there. You look outward at least ten minutes on your radar.

Ahead standard all the way. No crash dive. No change course. No problems, ever.

[Elder-Pirate]

Yes I know about the "Ahead Standard" setting but one of these days if you people play the game enough you will be near Japan mainlands get your hull all shot to pieces ( just enough left to go PD with out Davy Jones staring you in the face ) and NOT have enough fuel left to make it to a fueling depot let alone home port. Why? Well because you chose to run at "Ahead Standard" therefore burning up the fuel you now don't have.

Whats wrong with going a little slower and saving fuel ? You have a speed compressor don't you? You do not have to spend anymore time at the keyboard do you? Why is everybody always in such a big hurry?

When I am ready to go back to home base and if I'm not all shot up I will measure the distance between my boat and where I am heading using the "Ctrl + G" ( Range to course end ), "Shift + G" ( Maximum range at current speed ) then "Ctrl + W" ( Weather report ), if good weather I may crank her up to "Ahead Flank" if a refueling spot is near enough. Speed depends on a lot of things but on the way to battle after my last fuel stop it's 1/3 on the surface and 1kt under for normal running conditions.

The main thing here guys is " It's your game and you play it the way you want to and above all Have Fun" :rock:

[surf_ten]

Has anyone actually been surprised by an air attack and sunk? I ask this because several subs were lost due to air attacks. Also, while playing SHIII it was aircraft that usually ended my careers. So far my radar seems to pick up aircraft with enough time for me to crash dive.

[Torplexed]

Has anyone actually been surprised by an air attack and sunk? I ask this because several subs were lost due to air attacks. Also, while playing SHIII it was aircraft that usually ended my careers. So far my radar seems to pick up aircraft with enough time for me to crash dive.
I've never been surprised by aircraft. There really shouldn't be any reason to be as the radar never malfunctions in the game. I think only two US subs were lost to air attack alone. Sealion, bombed while tied to a pier at Cavite at the war's opening, and Bullhead to a Japanese army plane a few days prior to the war's end. Not sure how she got caught unawares. Quite a contrast with the Atlantic U-Boat experience though.

[I'm goin' down]

Torplexed, we like your art work. Pretty damn good! My girlfriend's sister, who is portrayed in the far right drawing on my signature, likes your imagination, has a taste for good beer, is quite fit, and says she wouldn't mind meeting you. (She is reading Das Boat right now.)


Where is your third drawing?

[Wilcke]

That is good artwork! Very original. Nice to see original stuff.

[Torplexed]

Where is your third drawing?
Was saving this one for the day I moved on to flight sims. Oh well. :DL I'm still stuck on sub sims.

http://neptoon.homestead.com/FlyGirl.jpg

[Webster]

My whole problem is that I can't understand how the developers chose to make it like this. I don't want to use mods, I just want to play the game the way it was intended. I don't want to "cheat" by using mods etc. it shouldn't be necessary to cheat! It should be possible to play the game as it was intended and be able to enjoy it. This is not enjoying, it's ANNOYING. No, it's even worse, not only can I not enjoy the game, I probably can't even PLAY the game because I will be dead soon from either dead batteries or dive bombers... If there is a way to survive, I'd really like to know it because right now I just don't think I can stay alive, let alone fulfill some objectives.

I'm still gonna try though...I refuse to give up. So wish me luck!!

some mods are cheats but 90% of them are just the oposite, they make the game more difficult and challenging. with few exceptions the mod community here is not looking for or interested in cheats, we love the challenge and test of skill and most mods are aimed at improving the look and feel of the game and some are made to stop the game from cheating, not about letting you cheat.

sometimes there are those who go blow the crap outta everything in sight by using a cheat style mod but i believe it is done in modderation and usually to relieve the stress of the situations like you just went through lol.

i have some mods that are cheats but it all depends on how you use them, you can use them just to level the playing field or to unfairly increase your advantage but its up to you to decide how much you want to increase your ability.

[Soterius]

So basically, if I travel 10 miles on 1/3rd speed, my batteries will use up less power than when I travel the same distance on ahead flank? (God, the developers should really come up with a decent manual on this game!)

[Robedslv]

About the planes, especially in South China Sea: Someone said that there seemed to be a plane highway between Tokyo and ???. Well, this ??? seems to be Taipei. The amount of air traffic in that area between Dec 44 and the end of the war is just incredible. I can't go for more than five minutes without "Aircraft spotted", and crash dive we go.
For some time I tried to stay up and go for it with the flak guns... got a whole bunch of them, but the crazy pilots were starting to get desperate at that time of the war, and after getting shot, they were throwing the plane at me Kamikaze style, burning and all. Luckily I saved the game before these occasions. Once, one of them came straight down right on top of the bridge. Severe hull damage, 20% of crew dead, periscopes and topside guns destroyed... Not fun!
I guess the game includes Kamikazes, huh?

[Webster]

About the planes, especially in South China Sea: Someone said that there seemed to be a plane highway between Tokyo and ???. Well, this ??? seems to be Taipei. The amount of air traffic in that area between Dec 44 and the end of the war is just incredible. I can't go for more than five minutes without "Aircraft spotted", and crash dive we go.
For some time I tried to stay up and go for it with the flak guns... got a whole bunch of them, but the crazy pilots were starting to get desperate at that time of the war, and after getting shot, they were throwing the plane at me Kamikaze style, burning and all. Luckily I saved the game before these occasions. Once, one of them came straight down right on top of the bridge. Severe hull damage, 20% of crew dead, periscopes and topside guns destroyed... Not fun!
I guess the game includes Kamikazes, huh?

yep the airplane highway is due south from tokyo just left of island chains in south china sea and the other one is from tokyo to pearl harbor. in real distance go about a half in to an inch to the side of these highways to avoid those 10,000 aircraft buzzing overhead. its a hard coded thing where those routes with have constant air traffic in a daisy chain kind of way.

as for kamikazies, no the game doesnt do that but when destroyed they go straight so keep that in mind and it can be better to let those diving at steep angle that you dont destroy at a distance to pass when they get close and shoot them as they pull away. just judge the angle and remember they wont stop so you dont want to be head on with them when you destroy them.

if you want a good laugh about this subject read this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=136974

[Red Devil]

Grab RSRD, should cut down on aircraft contacts. I dont use TMO though. In RFB the only aircraft contacts I had were a pair of Zeros flying a cap around PNG while I was transiting the area for my patrol area. Only aerial contact for my entire patrol
either RSRD is not working or I am in the midst of the biggest air armada in history!!! 127nm south of Toyohama and the air is FULL of planes in ASW_9.0_RSRDC_V350_1.4

[Torplexed]

either RSRD is not working or I am in the midst of the biggest air armada in history!!! 127nm south of Toyohama and the air is FULL of planes in ASW_9.0_RSRDC_V350_1.4

What time period is this?

[Red Devil]

either RSRD is not working or I am in the midst of the biggest air armada in history!!! 127nm south of Toyohama and the air is FULL of planes in ASW_9.0_RSRDC_V350_1.4
What time period is this? July 1942. In the USS Drum. I eventually got back to Pearl after shooting down approx 20-30 planes! And diving on those too numerous to even anticipating fighting!!

[ancient46]

In the AirStrike.cfg change this line "Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=" to 55. Goodbye planes, end of problem.

[Red Devil]

In the AirStrike.cfg change this line "Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=" to 55. Goodbye planes, end of problem.remind me to get you a few bottles one day!! :woot:

[Elder-Pirate]

I am very curious just WHY some of you people just have to stay on the surface in enemy territory during the daylight hours?

No matter what year it is when you are in enemy waters you should be submerged in the day time hours and at 1 knot ( your batteries will most definitely hold out until you can surface ), use your time compression to what ever you need but watch the clock and approx 1/2 hour after sunset slow the time to normal ( 1 ), surface, bring your surface speed back up and hit the time compression again. Rinse and repeat till you get to where you are assigned.

There are a few tricky spots on the map as far as depth goes so you should not be there in the first place. Also some of you do not pay attention to where you draw your waypoint lines and at high compression you wonder why you sink on an island that you did not see. ( of course I've done that because I was in a hurry )

There might be flack and deck guns aboard but your sub is not an aircraft fighting ship, it's a submarine so use it that way.

In WWII if our sub skippers just wanted to hunt for aircraft do you think we would have had any subs left and in a short matter of time. Only an idiot skipper on those WWII Subs would do just that.

[Red Devil]

Point taken about the subs on surface in daylight. If we wanted to be 100% historical then yes, but when I find a convoy, I would rather it be with fully loaded batteries and not possibly half dead or worse. It happened to me the once, loaded with full trops but only 10% battery left and a bloody large convoy in my earphones but could not surface to do an end around attack. At least with a full battery pack, I could have withdrawn at speed, surfaced out of site, and ran like hell for a decent intercept point. I supose its all a question of how accurate you want it to be?

Submarines were always intended as a surfaced fighter with the ability to dive out of harms way; at least the was the WW1 conception of a U Boat. This was still the "norm" at the beginning of WW2.

[Webster]

I am very curious just WHY some of you people just have to stay on the surface in enemy territory during the daylight hours?

No matter what year it is when you are in enemy waters you should be submerged in the day time hours and at 1 knot ( your batteries will most definitely hold out until you can surface ), use your time compression to what ever you need but watch the clock and approx 1/2 hour after sunset slow the time to normal ( 1 ), surface, bring your surface speed back up and hit the time compression again. Rinse and repeat till you get to where you are assigned.


i went round and round with the rfb crew on this topic and they claim to have thousands of pages of real life log books showing american subs spent 10-12 hours a day on the surface for maximum speed and range and only submerged when aircraft or ships were spoted. it sounds contrary to common sense but in reality our radar was very good so staying surfaced was no disadvantage since we got lots of early warning and were not in any danger of being caught on the surface. the only time they stayed submerged in daytime was when near islands were land based aircraft could surprise them.

[Arclight]

Recharging batteries takes an awful lot of fuel. When sailing from Pearl to patrol the East or South China Sea, you don't want to "waste" a drop of it. Like WEBSTER pointed out, only submerging when required keeps the fuel consumption down.

[Steeltrap]

A few comments:

To Soterius:
Seems you need to do some reading on the endurance of submarines on battery power. Not wishing to sound narky! It's just you do need to know the limitations of the vessel you command. yes, it would help if there were a 'decent' manual, but there isn't.
As for mods, they aren't cheats, they are an attempt to make the sim more realistic. Stock SHIV is, frankly, a crap copy of the SHIII engine with tricked up graphics. There are SO many errors in the sim it's pointless to try to list them. As an example, your air-search radar shouldn't give you a bearing to the target; the US never had air-search radar in WWII subs that gave a bearing...they gave range only. How's that for a basic screwup?!!

To Red Devil:
Submarines were always intended as a surfaced fighter with the ability to dive out of harms way; at least the was the WW1 conception of a U Boat. This was still the "norm" at the beginning of WW2.
Sorry, that's not true at all. US doctrine had subs patrolling submerged in daylight hours ALL THE TIME within their patrol zone. It was generally only after the pre-war skippers were dumped that patrolling as a 'surface raider' became the norm. You might like to read Wahoo and Clear the Bridge by Dick O'Kane for more on that.

Generally, aircraft in stock SHIII and IV are nerfed. There are unreasonable numbers of them, they are ineffective in attack and stupidly easy to shoot down. You'll see posts by people saying they destroyed 20+ in each patrol.....

I gave up on SHIV because I found the number of obvious, crappy errors too great to tolerate (air-search radar; the whole 'propulsion system' problem i.e. USA's subs had a much better and flexible system compared with German subs, but SHIV just stuck SHIII's in it more or less; etc. etc.). I really should contemplate looking at the level of 'realism' achieved by the latest mods, I guess, but I don't know if I can be bothered......

Cheers

[ancient46]

Anyone wishing to get a picture of how a sub operated is invited to go to one of the best submarine sites, the ussarcherfish.com Read the logs of the 7 patrols and see how they handled the air contacts.

[Rockin Robbins]

Point taken about the subs on surface in daylight. If we wanted to be 100% historical then yes, but when I find a convoy, I would rather it be with fully loaded batteries and not possibly half dead or worse. It happened to me the once, loaded with full trops but only 10% battery left and a bloody large convoy in my earphones but could not surface to do an end around attack. At least with a full battery pack, I could have withdrawn at speed, surfaced out of site, and ran like hell for a decent intercept point. I supose its all a question of how accurate you want it to be?

Submarines were always intended as a surfaced fighter with the ability to dive out of harms way; at least the was the WW1 conception of a U Boat. This was still the "norm" at the beginning of WW2.

It was MORE the norm at the end of WWII. A submarine is a torpedo boat with the ability to submerge for the shortest possible length of time when it's life is on the line or during an attack. THAT"S ALL! At all other times you need to be on the surface at ahead standard. Ostriches do not belong in submarines.

[Red Devil]

Whats wrong with this configeration in CFG/Airstrike file? I have just abandoned my trip to Japan as I am stuck, with no battery power, in mid pacific with a sqn of zero's flying past every couple of minutes!! And not an airbase within 2000 miles!

Maximum Aircraft Range=1000 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.7 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.8 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.9 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=55 ;[>0] Default probability to send an airstrike from a airbase (carrier)
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=55 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a radio message sent
Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=55 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a contact message sent
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=55 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on player detection
Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=30 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec)

[tater]

RD, I assume you are playing the stock campaign.

SH4 has a bug whereby "scripted" AI groups appear on a certain date as they should—but their AIRGROUPS are on the map regardless.

The group in question is the Midway CV group(s) and anyone at sea during much of 1942 sees this problem.

[Red Devil]

RSRDC I am running. OK but this is after Midway. Will check date and come back.

[tater]

If you are running RSRDC and you are actually seeing tons of planes in the middle of the ocean... there must be something interesting happening. :yep:

Short of some ASW patrols along convoy routes west of Formosa, I never see planes in RSRDC at all running RFB, and with the airstrike.cfg set more like stock, I see planes only once in a blue moon.

[Red Devil]

Tell ya wot? Paste your aircraft cfg in here, i'll nick it ;)

[Red Devil]

In the AirStrike.cfg change this line "Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=" to 55. Goodbye planes, end of problem.

After complete reinstallation and on patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running I altered the above line to the stated: but getting battered by planes in luzon. So going to try new career and see if it makes any difference.

[tater]

Default Air Strike Probability=55 ;[>0] Default probability to send an airstrike from a airbase (carrier)


THAT is your problem.

You have a 55% chance of an airstrike every 2.5 hours. The stock game had 10 instead of 55. RFB uses 5%.

Set it to 10.

[Red Devil]

Hey, wilco, so who is right? I am on new career in Searaven, off Northern Phillipines, and getting 'spotted' every couple of hours, sometimes less. OK will try the 10; lets hope I give you 10/10 eh? :yeah:

I fully understand the historical chances but would prefer to do a bit of plain sailing now and then. A small sub in a big ocean is not that easy to find, even in aircraft.

This is my current settings before anything you suggested:

Maximum Aircraft Range=2000 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.35 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.7 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=10 ;[>0] Default probability to send an airstrike from a airbase (carrier)
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=30 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a radio message sent
Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=70 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a contact message sent
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=55 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on player detection
Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec)

[Soundman]

Sorry if this has been covered, forgive me for not reading the entire thread. My observation....the only problem I have is that when radar picks up a contact, they are ALWAYS coming in your direction. It would seem that IRL, now and then they would just skirt you. Every time I've picked up a contact, they appear to already know where you are and therefore, head directly toward you. I have never seen a contact not coming directly in my direction. It would be nice if now and then they (for example) flew east to west, north of me.

[Soundman]

And like I was saying, I wouldn't mind it so much if there was a strong presence of Japanese air power. It's more I just think they're poorly presented in this game. Whenever they appear on radar, they're always heading right in your direction - which makes them seem more like a static game mechanic to put you in danger, and less like a living air force.


Sorry I missed this.... Wholeheartedly agree ! :yeah:

[AngronIsAngry]

Okay, I have set down the range of planes from 2000 to 2, which means they only circle around an air strip. When I find a plane in the open ocean, it is "Hello Carrier Time".
Yes, this can clearly be defined as cheat. Since the only action my AA guns see, is killing fishing boats and it's been ages since I last got down by a plane anyways; taking them out of the equation is only a game speed improvement IMO.

The plane problem wouldn't be as bad, if you wouldn't see every plane twice. Not that it is so hard to stay 30 minutes longer underwater to avoid the return flight. The predictability that you are going to hit the same speed bump twice, is the problem.
Frankly, if anybody knows of a method to only have one overflight of the planes, I'd be happy to hear.

In a way, I don't even have so much a problem with a every plane being directed at me (even if the numbers could be less). As the historical inaccurate SD Radar gives distance, direction and estimated speed informations; I'd have told its operator to immediately report to me odd/interesting contacts and contacts which so much as burp our direction. Everything else he may do with as he pleases as long as I get a report every so-and-so hours.

[ancient46]

For Red Devil: Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec) This is your problem, 20 is a setting that would bring a huge amount of planes your way.

From the instructions to the ASW Air Layer mod by Akbar Gulag and Donut http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131709
"Using notepad, open the file then go to the last line. Alter the value 40 up or down. 10 being lots of traffic and 55 being very low. You could take it anywhere between 1 and 99, but we found over 55 to be near non-existent traffic.

Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=40

Once you have altered this value to the desired amount of traffic, save with notepad. Re-apply the MOD, your air frequency will now reflect the value you entered."

[tater]

It makes a difference what campaign you are playing. The logic interval of 40 means zero planes in RSRDC, for example, or very nearly zero. That"40" value is used in RFB, and in many RSRDC patrols I never saw a single japanese aircraft. Not one.

10*40*90sec=36,000 seconds. That is how often the game will check to see if an air attack occurs. 600 minutes, which is 10 hours.

I patrolled off Japan... never saw a plane. After a few patrols, I never submerged except to attack ships in daylight. Roughly a 4% chance per airbase you are under per day.

I set it to 20 for RSRDC, and I now see a plane or two a day within range of airbases.

Overall, the only way to have them work well would be to make random plane groups flying waypoints. It would be... complex.

[Red Devil]

I am pleased to see that planes are not "just me" -as I stated in a thread a long time ago, if there were so many jap planes in the air, there is no chance of America winning the war, they would have had no ships and no beach landings.

And I too find that these planes are always coming directly "at me", and twice, even from long range. They did not have radar, and a small sub in the ocean well, the chances of spotting one from the air, even with a wake, is minimal.

When US planes flew over the IJN FLEET at the Battle of Midway they had to "go down to make sure" ................ they were so high, they nearly missed them with the partial cloud cover.

11000 Zeros were actually built over the period of its existence. 1940 - 1945. with a range of slightly over 900 miles in the later version at 356MPH. By the end of the war less than 300 remained.

The "Betty" had a range of 2694 miles but was a flying gas can and caught fire easily. 2446 including variants were built.

Thank you sincerely to all who have helped in this. Now off to make further adjustments to air cfg ...............

[Red Devil]

For Red Devil: Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec) This is your problem, 20 is a setting that would bring a huge amount of planes your way.

From the instructions to the ASW Air Layer mod by Akbar Gulag and Donut http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131709
"Using notepad, open the file then go to the last line. Alter the value 40 up or down. 10 being lots of traffic and 55 being very low. You could take it anywhere between 1 and 99, but we found over 55 to be near non-existent traffic.

Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=40

Once you have altered this value to the desired amount of traffic, save with notepad. Re-apply the MOD, your air frequency will now reflect the value you entered."

This is very helpful because it actually states "reapply your mod" - something I have never done assuming that the cfg file was now amended successfully. so now, I am going to remove RSRD and re-mod it.

[rubenandthejets]

One of the thigs I found a little counter intuitive was the number of Japanese planes still in the air very late in the war. They were as thick as flies around the home islands (TMO for 1.4) so for a while I scratched my head and swore a lot and ranted about no fuel, repeated arifield sweeps by US carrier aircraft, the husbanding of aircraft for the impending invasion of Kyushu, the deplorable skill levels that weren't evident etc etc.

I finally stumbled across the rationale behind TMO and it all made sense. In the Atlantic, historically the war gets tougher and tougher for the UBoats. In the Pacific, it gets easier and easier historically-and where's the fun in that?

I was kind of looking forward to surfacing with imunity within a couple of NM of Tateyama, but I would've fallen asleep after ten minutes.

These days I'm playing with FOTRS and DAMN, you thought planes were bad before! They might not be around as often, but you'd better pay attenton when they are!

[Red Devil]

I had a go after reinstalling the mod and encountered a couple of aircraft within an hour but that would possibly be normal, so I am going to give it a decent run before commenting on the effectiveness of the latest batch of instructions. But, one lives in hope :salute:

[tater]

A few points.

1. The planes "coming at you" bit. I'm no fan of the SH4 airstrike paradigm, but you should know that while they are coming at you (sort of), they have NOT detected you (yet). The game generates them on a heading inside that 10nm circle, and they fly it. Detection is entirely separate.

2. IJNAF (it was almost entirely IJN air units flying sea patrols) planes certainly should get a little more dense over possible target areas later in the war. The IJN had air units tasked to patrol the convoy routes, and they actually even had pretty decent doctrine according to post war interviews with them I have read. They'd drop charges, AND dye markers, they would try and maintain contact or try and circle above submarine positions to force them to stay submerged, too. Still, they should not be "thick."

RSRDC doesn't have an Airstrike.cfg file, there is none to mod within RSRDC.

[Red Devil]

tater, thanks. A few weeks ago I was so hit by planes, I had to abandon the game, and reload as it was a couple of thousand miles from "anywhere", no mainland mass or anything over an atoll in range. If there had been carriers, there would have been about 20-30 in thew area. As a Zero has a top range of slightly over 900 miles, well!

It wasn't even a recognisable target area, but my comments on detection still stand, a sub is miniscule in the Pacific.

[tater]

From the air, they'd very likely be spotting the WAKE from any distance, not the boat itself. In 1944, many jap patrol aircraft had radar.

I have to say I'm baffled by many planes in RSRDC in the middle of the ocean, I counted on the last 8 patrols or so, and before I altered the airstrike cfg, I saw ZERO aircraft using the RFB Airstrike.cfg. Not one plane seen in many patrols.

Aircraft range is a problem with the airstrike system in SH4. My previous solution (for my campaign) was to grossly reduce some plane ranges. The zero, for example. yes, they had long range, but they'd not be out flying patrols over the ocean, they'd be either a CAP near an airfield, or they'd be on a specific mission someplace (which "Airstrike.cfg" doesn't model). So I dropped the zero's range to 40nm, and reduced the number in the airbase to 1-2. I similarly reduced the range of CV based aircraft to what you'd expect for them patrolling a TF. 40nm for val and kate. The betty is long-ranged, and also has to fill in for the G3M used in a maritime patrol role as well. Reducing the planes in the airgroups helps.

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

[Red Devil]

From the air, they'd very likely be spotting the WAKE from any distance, not the boat itself. In 1944, many jap patrol aircraft had radar.

I have to say I'm baffled by many planes in RSRDC in the middle of the ocean, I counted on the last 8 patrols or so, and before I altered the airstrike cfg, I saw ZERO aircraft using the RFB Airstrike.cfg. Not one plane seen in many patrols.

Aircraft range is a problem with the airstrike system in SH4. My previous solution (for my campaign) was to grossly reduce some plane ranges. The zero, for example. yes, they had long range, but they'd not be out flying patrols over the ocean, they'd be either a CAP near an airfield, or they'd be on a specific mission someplace (which "Airstrike.cfg" doesn't model). So I dropped the zero's range to 40nm, and reduced the number in the airbase to 1-2. I similarly reduced the range of CV based aircraft to what you'd expect for them patrolling a TF. 40nm for val and kate. The betty is long-ranged, and also has to fill in for the G3M used in a maritime patrol role as well. Reducing the planes in the airgroups helps.

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.Your guesstimate sounds fairly accurate to me, I look forward to your mod. Dont know why I never thought of it before but I have a couple of contacts who were the "real thing" due to my pages on US Subs in The Pacific on my web site. I will ask them.

[theluckyone17]

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

For what it's worth, I'd use it, too. My current career has played through 'til June of '42, and I still have yet to see an aircraft. Maybe I'll see some later on in the war...

[Red Devil]

I know the webmaster on uss sealion, I await his reply.

[longam]

After complete reinstallation and on patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running I altered the above line to the stated: but getting battered by planes in luzon. So going to try new career and see if it makes any difference.
Red Devil, is this a typo 'patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running'

If not your running a version of RSRDC that was made for SH4 v1.5, which could cause problems.

[Red Devil]

After complete reinstallation and on patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running I altered the above line to the stated: but getting battered by planes in luzon. So going to try new career and see if it makes any difference.
Red Devil, is this a typo 'patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running'

If not your running a version of RSRDC that was made for SH4 v1.5, which could cause problems.
Thats the download I was pointed to, no there is no typo.

So, ok then, which one should I be using

*totally besmiggled of UK* :damn:

The patch by the way was only added today, I didnt have it downloaded before.

[Rockin Robbins]

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

Well, I'm getting zero in RSRD/RFB. It is most boring and doesn't pass the smell test. I'm late 1941. I suppose the planes are all being used to kill people on land and don't care about me right now. After all, they didn't hassle the subs in Pearl either and there were plenty of to do it if they were so inclined.

[tater]

RR, the biggest culpret here is NOT RSRDC. It's RFB. Assuming you exclusively play RSRDC (stock campaign is abysmal):

Unenable Mods.

Go into the MODS folder to the BASE RFB mod, RFB_v1.52_102408.

Go into Data/Cfg within the mod. DELETE Airstrike.cfg.

That's it.

Reenable RFB/RFB patches, then RSRDC. Enjoy planes trying to kill you sometimes.

RSRDC has planes, they just get eliminated by RFB, since RFB has an Airstrike.cfg designed to fix the superabundence of planes in STOCK.

[Red Devil]

I received a reply from the USS Sealion webmaster

Wow, kind of a loaded question! Without stating direct references to any and all Japanese aircraft specifically, I would have to say that the number of our subs significantly damaged or sunk would be extremely minimal (in fact I can't recall any sunk per se by the enemy but at least one by our own aircraft)...
With that said our boats transited many areas wherein the enemy might have enjoyed air superiority "at the time" (Borneo and surrounds for a time etc.)... Our boats by nature were overly cautious with any aircraft contacts by sight or radar and would go under to be safe even if they knew the plane to be ours - as the past had proven that our airmen were not the best at submarine recognition.

Our old U.S. submarine movies showed more damage to the boats than the Japanese ever were able to accomplish. "BUT" to be fair, I'll review the 52 lost during the war and see if any were directly attributable to a lucky aircraft hit...

[Armistead]

I found the Guam Jap TF. Play without contacts, did have the freecam on this one patrol, but no next buttons. I sunk one carrier and had another listing. I don't know how many ships but it was huge with at least 4 Carriers.

After 10 dd's left me, I tracked it staying in radar range, couldn't do an end around, but thought I might catch it coming back. I had to play in almost real time, never could use TC above 8.

I guess they finally sent every plane the carriers had against me. I came up to periscope depth and bam bam bam..Used the cam to take a look and one group of four after the other attacked...the first one at least 24 planes dropped bombs. Then it was a train from the carriers to my sub of planes coming and going. This went on for hours. I finally got close enough to see the smoke and cut radar off, though I only made a few sweeps before and it stopped for awhile, but then out of nowhere here come the planes.

I finally had to come up. I was scared to lose contact, because having done this before the TF seems to vanish. My best gunners shot down 5 planes, got some minor damage...lost a gunner and went back down. Planes swarmed. Not sure how real it is to have over 100 planes attack you, but it was that many.

Finally after two days and around 20hrs real play in this battle, I just saved it.

Would like to know if the TF "despawns" for the lack of words if you lose all contact. This has happened before. I did do a save point and had them north and let the last ship just get out of radar range and could never find them again.

Went back to save point, hit flank as the same and they showed up in a few minutes.

[tater]

The game tracks contacts "in 3D" out to 20nm. Meaning you can go to freeview, and see them in a 20 mile circle around you. If they get farther away, poof, they become abstractions again. If you see the group aftewr that, it will be as if you swere never there. So you sink 2, then they go to 21nm, and you catch up... the 2 sunk ships are back.

[Armistead]

The game tracks contacts "in 3D" out to 20nm. Meaning you can go to freeview, and see them in a 20 mile circle around you. If they get farther away, poof, they become abstractions again. If you see the group aftewr that, it will be as if you swere never there. So you sink 2, then they go to 21nm, and you catch up... the 2 sunk ships are back.

That's what I figured, but I swore this didn't happen in stock. I remember losing TF for hours and finding them later...same TF..so it was just happen chance and not a true end around.

I new they auto fixed which also suxs.

[tater]

The TF is the same. It exists, and it moves on the map. The game doesn't know that individual ships have been sunk, however.

[Max2147]

My problem is that the aircraft are suspiciously accurate with their bombing. I dive as soon as the plane shows up on radar, change course and go at least 100 feet underwater, but I've still been sunk a couple times by a lone plane's depth charges.

Running vanilla 1.5 w/RSRDC

[ancient46]

RR, the biggest culpret here is NOT RSRDC. It's RFB. Assuming you exclusively play RSRDC (stock campaign is abysmal):

Unenable Mods.

Go into the MODS folder to the BASE RFB mod, RFB_v1.52_102408.

Go into Data/Cfg within the mod. DELETE Airstrike.cfg.

That's it.

Reenable RFB/RFB patches, then RSRDC. Enjoy planes trying to kill you sometimes.

RSRDC has planes, they just get eliminated by RFB, since RFB has an Airstrike.cfg designed to fix the superabundence of planes in STOCK.

Looking at RFB and RSRDC both have an Airstrike.cfg. With RSRDC enabled after RFB won't the RSRDC file be the one used in the game?:confused:

[tater]

It would, but lurker only recently added one to RSRDC, after my post to counter the RFB one that reduces stock planes (since RSRDC has fewer around to begin with).

[79TransAm]

when i open the cfg file and make changes and try to save it, it says access denied and will not save. Any ideas?

[Torplexed]

when i open the cfg file and make changes and try to save it, it says access denied and will not save. Any ideas?

Welcome to Windows Vista. It treats even the Master of the House as an intruder.

Try these links and see if they help.

http://techpaul.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/quick-tipovercome-access-denied-in-vistas-command-prompt/

http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/02/09/how-to-quickie-vista-permissions

[79TransAm]

tried em both, they didnt work

[PortsmouthProwler]

My problem is that the aircraft are suspiciously accurate with their bombing. I dive as soon as the plane shows up on radar, change course and go at least 100 feet underwater, but I've still been sunk a couple times by a lone plane's depth charges.

Running vanilla 1.5 w/RSRDC

Diving in general when avoiding planes:

1) CRASH IMMEDIATELY - don't even think about, just do it.

2) Post the AA on At Will, just in case.

3) Set depth to 162, 163 feet.

4) Don't manever until you're 140 feet or so - turning cramps your forward speed and rate of descent.

5) Throttle back when you bottom out.

[Akula4745]

http://www.jimdeadman.com/whatplanes.jpg

Seriously... diving is good advice.

[Rockin Robbins]

Heck, I haven't seen a plane in months. They used to be dangerous, now they don't exist. I really miss Ducimus' evil airplanes.

[PortsmouthProwler]

Hey, I like to take a few shots myself, and have. But the chance of getting nicked up, even if you prevail, is more than even.

So it comes down to priorities - do you want to get your boat damaged and deal with that the rest of the patrol, or just yield to the better part of valor and attack that convoy at 100%?

I am a little reckless - I don't dive until I get a lookout's report. Then I scramble.

[Stealhead]

It is the job of the aircraft to spot and attempt to destroy you. If they spot you are no longer a suprise as they will all know for sure that a sub was sighted in the area thus making your job all the more "easy". Do like they really did if you get a report of an ac on radar or whatever be gone if the belived path is going to take the plane within 5 miles of you the 40mm and the 20mm a so much better employed aginst small boats. In TMO they have a chance of seeing you as far down as 150ft at times so best to crash dive ASAP works for me I have never been hit by ac bombs or DCs to be honest they have been a few hundred yards off before though.In a Balao class it takes about 40-45 seconds just for the sub to completly submerge and about 1 minutes 25 seconds to be below 100ft 60ft is not safe in TMO you will die at this deapth if an ac is over head. I leave the planes to the USAAF,Navy,and Marine fighters they can shot them down I like the idea of boring them to death.:rock:

[Armistead]

Towards the end of the war, planes in TMO are mean. If you go into the Formosa Straits in 45, expect many planes with surface radar, MAD, and elite pilots. Don't be caught in shallow water. I have taken damage from TMO planes at 200 ft from planes with MAD. Mostly they won't drop their bombs if you stay below 180 ft, anything 165ft and up, they will drop.

I had over 12 planes with surface radar on me at one time. I couldn't even come up to periscope depth to attack a convoy.

I got stuck in 200ft of water to get to my patrol zone and stayed on the surface to fight it out...got lucky, as you can see one got close. Formosa is dangerous in 45 with TMORDRD. Also lot's of Coastal Vessels there and those bad boys carry 6 Y guns, talk about dropping cans.

And planes attack in storms....this hit almost did me in...had to go back to port with 80% damage.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-02_000025_640.jpg

Was at 200 ft...got real close.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-06_193812_859.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-04_015406_921.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-06_183753_937.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-03_224703_796.jpg

[PortsmouthProwler]

I don't think they like you.

[Stealhead]

That super escourt is part of RSRDC and 6 throwers? Come on that is way over the top for me I like a challenge but not when it is a ship loaded with way too much stuff to be belivable I dont even think that small thing would be able to carry enough DCs to keep all those things loaded for very long might as well make a bardge that has 50 throwers on it not realistic.The planes are tough in TMO but not to me really even in 45 when they have the radar(I get the RWR warning) I just crash dive after I get the alert. However the type of envro mod you have can make you more visable and also effects how sound travels in the water as well.Looks like he is using smoething other than TMOs Enviro.Other day day I was in Convoy College waiting for a Nippon Maru to sail into my TDC just when I was about to fire someone saw a palne on the scope I decided to risk satying at 60ft somehow the guy never saw me and I sank the maru. I dont know why but they just dont ever seem to find me. Maybe the guy that was watching the sector I was in went to the toilet.:timeout:

That is why I hit the crash dive button in the con tower as soon I get the alert I am not going to give them a slight chance on me. Better safe than sorry cause the planes take a ton more damage in TMO.I had a gut with MAD once but for some odd reason he never attacked me I free camed and he was flying over top me not sure what his deal was.My crew are crash dive pros which is good it lets us kill more ships.

[Armistead]

Yea, those coastal vessels are fun and tough. Not sure how many they carry, but enough to fill a large DD. Get three on you, pray you have decoys and deep water. They blew me to pieces...And I do use saves, just port saves. Went right back to Formosa and got killed again going after the same convoy in shallow water. Played the entire career to early 45 and never died and died 5 times in a row chasing TF and convoys in shallow water in Formosa.

I've been hit with charges from them at 500 ft. Am running some tweaked mods to make the AI a tad harder, but haven't touched the planes. They can see a tad deeper with the env mods, but not sure if it really effects how deep they drop. I've been damaged with just TMO at 200 ft.

Overall planes are easy, but visit Formosa early 45....Those Coastal vessels and planes work well together and you should get one patrol in shallow water. I planned to be safe the second time and went in during a storm and got popped. They attack at night, storms, doesn't matter. One thing I like about Formosa in 45 there are planes alway near the convoys...very realistic and the pilots are elite. Seldom see that. Also a good time to get a late war Ise as they make their final trip from Singy to Japan.
TMO
RSRD
Row Sound 9...love it.
Real Env, textured warships, ect.
Extra jap ships.
Sky Env.
Longer ship wake...great little mod.

and some others that don't mess with env. Finally found the set of mods I like that don't turn the game into fubar and get beautiful effects like this.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2009-06-02_015032_500.jpg

[Stealhead]

I had an Eratfu and an older Minekaze DD after me the other day near convoy college they where very mad after my sinking 2 of the 4 maurs they where covering my usual evasion busted when the convoy evaded in my direction. Man those suckers had me pretty close they pushed me from 330 all the way to 525 ft when they gave up at last. the whole time they had my location close but i could tell they where off by about 100ft in deapth.

They where very skilled though I heard a few times when they made a run theyd cut engines on and off I guess to try and hear me. Never saw this before they usualy just go full speed till they are done with the run. Did a lot of jinking on em had no decoys it was July 44 got em next load out though.

[Red Devil]

destroyers running silent is quite common. They run at speed, slow and stop for about 30 - 60 seconds then take off again.

[Stealhead]

Not mid DC run they dont stop like that I have never seen them do this before. I am not talking about when they are trying to get a fix or after their DC run this was during.I know how they normaly run and this was not normal.Hell they would do this even when one was still in the water getting a fix and telling the one making the run where they thought I was at and still he did this full speed stop full speed stop. that is odd I assume he was hoping to hear me ahead flank to avoid his DCs it did not work. I was giving them as much a hard time as they where me.Thanks for the advice that i was already well aware of though. :smug: