Dealing with Destroyers

[PoweredBySoy]

Now, I realize they're called Destroyers for a reason - but I just can't ever seem to shake these guys. What are some common strategies for remaining undetected? And once detected, how do I escape them?

Currently in my campaign I have a Destroyer right on top of me. I've gotten pretty good at avoiding his depth charges (as he's passing over me I turn hard 90 degrees and hit flank speed) - but no matter what I do he always knows where I am. I've tried remaining in flank as he passes over me and just outrunning him, hoping I'd spend enough time in his 'dead zone' so I could get away. I've tried submerging down to 350 feet and shutting off the engines. I've tried zig zagging at 1/3rd and silent running..... Nothing. He's on my like white on rice.

Any tips?

[dangerclose]

How about ejecting garbage out of the stern tube so when it surfaces it'll fool them into thinking you've been destroyed. I think this worked in a movie once.

[JonB]

Well, to remain undetected in generall, dont get too close. If you can spot a destroyer in daylight, it´s time to dive. Mind that you shouldn´t use more than 1/3 ahead/backwards when you have dived coz then they can hear you. Also go for "silent running" if possible. Note that when you are in silent running mode, neither damage controll team or torpedo crews can do their job. Basicly, avoid anything that makes noices, such as checking how far to the bottom (since this is done by sending a soundsignal and messuring time for it to come back).

If you have been detected, dive to a deeper depht, preferely beneth the thermolayer. Make sure to deploy a decoy on your way down for them to ping on. When you are deep down, make a 90 degree turn in some direction and just stay silent...


There is one time you can go "ahead flank" and that is when the destroyer is right on top of you or have just gone pass you... THOUGH, dont do it unless they are dropping deaphtcharges on you because they might hear you anyway. Only do it if neccessary to avoid those DC´s...


In Silent Hunter 3, you could launch a torpedo in any direction. When it had travelled as far as it could, it would explode. Sometimes, the destroyers went there to check it out. Though, havent tried it on SH4...


Good luck and happy hunting!


PS If the destroyers where escorts to a convoy, there is problably more then one destroyer. Keep an eye out for the others...

[Dread Knot]

Funny....I always seem to tangle with the clueless destroyers. They'll race over, drop a few charges, play the searchlights about a bit, run some circles and eventually wander off.

That being said, I usually creep at about one knot with the silent running, hope for a thermocline and try to avoid operations in shallow water.

[V.C. Sniper]

Deeper

[SteamWake]

Yes deeper, seek out the thermal layer, also quieter, dial up 2 knots.

When the DD makes its run which can be easily detected as he is close, headed straight at you running at flank... when he does jump into flank youself and change course... hard.. one way or the other. after a few minutes drop back to 2 knots, put the rudder amid ships change to silent running again and pray you can slowly slip away.

There are a few DD's out there that are good... really good. Espically later in the war. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sounds like you got Hell's Spawn running the surface. Dead stop does not work. Full ahead is not working either. Hit the silent running button. Go as deep as you can. If Hell's Spawn is after you, be prepared to take a peppering and take it for quite sometime. It is just the nature of the beast. After awhile, he will return to his charges. I usually just lay a path in the opposite direction his charges are going. I go get coffee and a smoke. I watch a TV show with one eye glued to the monitor. If he does not drop an ash can down your hatch, you should be able to get away. However, if he is Hell's Spawn, your chances of getting beat up 'real good' is very high. Good luck Capt. :up:

[I'm goin' down]

Download a supergun mod, surface, go down swinging (uh... shooting.)

[Soundman]

Sometimes the best defense in a strong offense. I generally try to avoid them, but if I'm detected, depending on the circumstance, I'll take him on with a "down the throat shot". This takes some practice, but I'm successful about 85% of the time doing this.

1) Lock on to the DD with your scope.
2) Go to at least standard speed, faster if you need to turn more quickly.
3) Put him at zero degrees in front of you (head on)
4) Set from your compass (lower right hand screen dial) to make small rudder adjustments. Once you get him to zero degrees, you shouldn't need more than about five degrees of rudder to keep him in the crosshairs. DO NOT use full rudder or you will over correct.
5) Use the small adjustments to keep him at zero degrees.
6) Make sure you have your bow tube doors open and set up for a zero degree gyro angle shot (i.e. straight in front of you)
7) Set depth as shallow as possible.
8) When he gets about 800 yds from you, let it rip.
9) If he starts a zig-zag, you have two options.. (a) fire one tube just to the left of his bow and immediately follow with another to the right of his bow. One of these is bound to get him. (b) practice until you can anticipate the time of firing to hit him in the side with one fish. this is risky !

Often you will be able to hit him before he starts to zigzag. The best insurance and also the way I'd do it in real life, would be to fire two, as in real life, we don't get to load a save and get a do-over. It is kinda fun using this technique, but again it takes practice. Once you get it down, you don't fear them as badly. I usually feel I have a better chance taking them down, than to let them get on top of me and hope to evade them and it's much more rewarding. Give it shot ! :up:

[PoweredBySoy]

Yes deeper, seek out the thermal layer, also quieter, dial up 2 knots.

When the DD makes its run which can be easily detected as he is close, headed straight at you running at flank... when he does jump into flank youself and change course... hard.. one way or the other. after a few minutes drop back to 2 knots, put the rudder amid ships change to silent running again and pray you can slowly slip away.

There are a few DD's out there that are good... really good. Espically later in the war. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. Perhaps I just got one of the 'good' ones. =(

And on my way down to 300 I did cross a thermalcline. Not sure it helped much though.

[banjo]

Ignore the red crush depth line on your depth meter--go to 350 - 500 feet. Keep turning to present smallest possible silouette, use silent running, turn off damage control party, vary depth up and down but stay deep. In a Balao I have gone to 600 feet.

[Falkirion]

Thermoclines reduce sonar effectiveness, its thicker water so due to some physics thing (I can't explain it but I can visualize it in my head) so it returns a slightly less accurate reading.

Basically just stay under the thermocline and dont run on anything past 2 knots. Should be able to slip away. At least you didn't tangle with 3 destroyers in Osaka bay, hoo boy that was a tough escape, 100 feet of water+DDs=Pure luck to avoid their DC runs and skill to get out to deeper waters to avoid them.

[Aramike]

The biggest thing is to just be quiet. Only use high speed for evasive manuevers when you're sure he's got you.

When I get a smart DD, I never turn at flank. I'll use flank speed to gather steam, knock the engines back down to 1/3, THEN use my momentum to make a turn and get the hell out of there. That way I'm hoping he doesn't hear me well enough to get good fix on what course I'm turning to.

[old_tex]

I have to agree that "the best defense is a good offense." I have, after a number of attempts, been able to successfully engage destoyers using the following technique:
1) Navigate so that the destroyer is coming from the rear.
2) Set your torpedo depth between five and ten feet for destoyers (five feet for gun boats.
3) Lock the periscope on the target.
4) Use rudder control rather than compass. Maintain the average enemy route on the 180 degree line. That is, directly aft of the sub. Try not to use large rudder movements. Maintain a speed of at least "standard." Keeping him on the 180 degree line lessens the gyro angle and shortens the run time for the torpedo because the route is shorter.
5) Open the torpedo doors to save time ("Q"). Torps on "fast" and "contact/influence"
6) Use the attack map to verify torpedo's track. Wait until the destroyer get within about 400 yds and fire. I don't even use the periscope, but rather use the attack map. My XO can call out info to me.

I can confidently engage destroyers using this method (and survive). I have tried a "Down the throat" approach, which is more difficult because of the closing rate between the two vessels.

Note: If you fire too late, the torpedo will not arm. If that happens "Crash Dive" and pull down the periscope because he is going to run over you. Immediately order "periscope depth" as he goes over and re-engage as he moves away. Set up again. This time with the forward tubes. Make sure that you get everything ready BEFORE you start the engagement. Good Luck. Let me know how you do. :up: Old_tex

[Sledgehammer427]

the only thing i would add to ur strategem old_tex is to turn your rudder hard in either direction to gain just a little more leverage on your escape...

what i do is the down the throat idea from soundman,
but i launch a spread of at least 3 torps and wait at peri depth until he veers.
when he veers, i veer in the opposite direction, stfu, and dive until the hull threatens to cave

[Soundman]

the only thing i would add to ur strategem old_tex is to turn your rudder hard in either direction to gain just a little more leverage on your escape...

what i do is the down the throat idea from soundman,
but i launch a spread of at least 3 torps and wait at peri depth until he veers.
when he veers, i veer in the opposite direction, stfu, and dive until the hull threatens to cave

I have used stern tubes as well, it just depends. If I'm getting low on bow torpedoes, I will tend to use the stern tubes if time allows enough turn rate to maneuver into position. Both will work equally well with this technique. The (sometimes) disadvantage with Tex's method, is the time you may have to turn 180 degrees from them, may not be long enough. It all depends on how close they are to you. The important thing is that we are in agreement with taking an offensive stance, because in most cases, the percentages of taking them down with this technique, outweighs the survival percentage of a DD on top of you (given you are competent with this method). AND, you may very well end up with two or three on top of you before it's over.

One thing I failed to mention first time around...It helps to have knowledge of how to fire on any bearing you desire in a moments notice. I always re-enter the solution (update the bearing) just before firing. i.e... Upon determining it's time to fire NOW, and the target is at say, 1/2 a degree starboard, I will update the TDC to that bearing. If the boat is nearing minimum firing range and is not at exactly zero degrees, you will not have the time to turn the boat to put him at zero degrees. All this is hard to explain in detail, you just have to experiment for yourself to understand. Again...it takes a little practice to become proficient with this method, and it is really not that hard. You don't need to do any fancy calculations or use any tools, it's really a pretty instinctive, shoot from the hip kind of technique, but man is it fun !

[NEON DEON]

Well lets say you are in bad shape. Your air is FUBAR and the DD is making another run.

Keep your sound profile to a minimum by presenting your arse to his bearing. Come up to 25 meters. Under 2 knots silent running.

Thats right its going to get hairy;)

Set four forward tubes to contact and shallow. Make sure tdc is clear. no last bearings no position keeper and open the tubes!

Sound battle stations. (maximum crew reaction)

Follow nearest target with sonar.

Put the scope up at minimum zoom at 000. (more hairyness as thats just below destroyer draft.)

Set gun crew to fire at will and target weapons.(only if you have forward firing deck gun. Dont be a pussy!)


When the bearing changes rapidly thats when he is right over your head.

Ie: pinging crazy map showing rapid change in bearing.

Order back emergancy!:88)

Emergency surface!:huh:

Watch the gun icon. once it has signaled manned, man the foward AA yourself(not the deck gun) and aim at the depth charges! :/\\x:


Poof!:ping: :ping: :ping:

bye bye destroyer.

now in case it does not work then fire a spread with no bearings at left 2 right 2 left 5 right 5.

PS at slow speed.

This only works if one DD is on top o you.

[gimpy117]

I pop off a couple Noise makers and do a spiral as I crash dive....seems to work...
the whole point is to make it difficult to anticipate where you will be to drop charges and the noise maker makes it even harder. Basically if you're shallow and not in a maneuver you're pretty well dead.

you have 32 hours of battery at 1/3 but a little less air (I think I'll have to time it); get the "historical Crush depths mod"
and go to about 400+ feet and your usually golden if you're at 1/3 and rigged for silent (I've made it to 412-420 in a porpoise class and more in a later class)

[old_tex]

Another evasive tactic I try to use is, as follows:
I came up inside a convoy and pop a couple of targets. That, of course, alerts the DEs. In looking around, I see that one of my hits has disabled a freighter. She is dead in the water. I mark her bow and stern on the attack map with "X"s and draw a line on each side. Then I dive. The DEs start looking for me as I creep away SLOW. As they begin to move away and I can make my way toward the disabled ship, I come up to periscope depth along side as close to the lines along one of her sides. Then I sit and wait for the DEs to start circling the area. Of course I use good periscope practice so as not to be noticed by the search lights (Night) or their being too close during the day. As a DE comes within range, I pop him. Then I wait for the next one. A little sneaky, but all's fair. :up: Old_tex

[Sandman_28054]

Now, I realize they're called Destroyers for a reason - but I just can't ever seem to shake these guys. What are some common strategies for remaining undetected? And once detected, how do I escape them?

Currently in my campaign I have a Destroyer right on top of me. I've gotten pretty good at avoiding his depth charges (as he's passing over me I turn hard 90 degrees and hit flank speed) - but no matter what I do he always knows where I am. I've tried remaining in flank as he passes over me and just outrunning him, hoping I'd spend enough time in his 'dead zone' so I could get away. I've tried submerging down to 350 feet and shutting off the engines. I've tried zig zagging at 1/3rd and silent running..... Nothing. He's on my like white on rice.

Any tips?

There have been a plenty of great advice given here.

Any one of them should give you an edge.

The only thing I would add, is just reading your post, you are being persued by a single destroyer.

Now what I have found that works in my cases is to stay around periscope depth.

If you can risk it, watch to see when he approaching from the stern. When he gears up, makes his run at you, go to flank speed and just as he is 2-300 yards away, either go hard to port ot hard to starboard. Depth charges will come, make no mistake about it, but they should fall just uder you and depending on turn, either to the left or right of you. After he passes over, it is relatively safe to raise your periscope just above the waterline. Lock on target and turn hard to whichever direction he is turning.

Now, most destroyers have a depth of between 9-12'. If you have the "fish" to spare, set one of the fore tubes to med speed, contact influence, and 11' depth. When the target is over 400 yards away and your locked on, open fire.

Senerio #2, same as above except set your aft tubes the same settings. Or if you feel lucky, 3.5' depth, and contact fuse. When the destroyer passes over, if he turns to port, order hard to starboard and flank speed. As he comes into target, wiat until you have a good shot, usually anywhere from 165 degrees to 195 degrees. (15 degrees on either side of 180) And open up on him.

Then dive as quickly as possible to 350-400', execute a 90 degree turn, and order silent running.

Been there, done that. In another thread I relate a story that happened to me on one of my recent missions where i was being hunted by 5, count 'em, 5 destroyers!

Thought I'd be fish food for sure.

At any rate, good luck and good hunting.

[I'm goin' down]

Listen to old tex, whose chart re AoB/Lead Angle/Torpedo Speed for use in implementing the John Cromwell Attack Technique is displayed at Annapolis, the Smithsonian, tatooed on my inside of my right and left forearms, and imprinted on a brass plate on the Attack Periscope.

If the plan of attack re destroyers is good enough for Old Tex, it is good enough for me.

:up: Yehawww!:up:

[tater]

I was recently looking at all the US sub attacks on DDs in Alden, and most all were spreads. Aside from Growler, most seem to be 3-4 fish.

[Rockin Robbins]

I would say that spreads would only be justified if the warships were ordered to be primary targets. Otherwise I'd expect Admiral Lockwood to roast me for wasting torpedoes when I returned to port. Fire up lecture #3: Torpedoes are for Merchants.:shifty:

[Atony94]

another tip is, when you "think" you have escaped the destroyer dont surface just yet, go up to periscope depth and do a 360 look around your ship, ive had destroyers sit on the surface waiting for me to pop up even though my convoy atk was awhile ago. chance are though if they have stopped and are just sitting there they are waiting for you but they dont know where you are so keep moving away!

[PoweredBySoy]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. Perhaps I just got one of the 'good' ones. =(

And on my way down to 300 I did cross a thermalcline. Not sure it helped much though.

It's funny - since I created this thread I've read the book Run Silent, Run Deep. And if I remember correctly, it was right about in area 7 I was having the problem with this destroyer. haha. It may very well have been Bungo Pete - which, if I remember correctly, is modeled in the TMO mod.

Since then I've had much more success in staying undetected using the advice in this thread.

(I never did escape 'Bungo' though. I just had to restart the campaign)

[surf_ten]

So I been trying to take a more offensive approach with destroyers and try out Old Tex and Soundman's techniques and I all I am doing is wasting torpedeos. You think somebody can throw up a video and demostrate thier techniques here. Normally I just slink away but with TMO I have blown several convoy attempts because the escorts detect me and chase me away.

[Captain Vlad]

I would say that spreads would only be justified if the warships were ordered to be primary targets. Otherwise I'd expect Admiral Lockwood to roast me for wasting torpedoes when I returned to port. Fire up lecture #3: Torpedoes are for Merchants.:shifty:

As long as my ass is still there to be chewed on, I think it's a fair trade.:cool:

[Leon West]

Sometimes the best defense in a strong offense. I generally try to avoid them, but if I'm detected, depending on the circumstance, I'll take him on with a "down the throat shot". This takes some practice, but I'm successful about 85% of the time doing this.

I've done this once! I was tracking a convoy of British Ships, and I didn't realize they had a J-Class Destroyer circling the formation (He must've been on the opposite end of the formation because my hydrophones never picked up warship sounds) Anyways, I surfaced figuring I was safe, and on the surface I could cover more water and get closer to the ships...

That's when I noticed the destroyer's silhouette on the horizon. They cranked her hard rudder and jammed that throttle to flank speed.

I immediately dove to periscope depth, went silent, lined up my sights, and fired off two torps.

The J-Class tried to evade and went hard starboard, which only exposed her entire left side, and both torps struck, one near the bow, the other midships...sunk like a rock.

I blame pure luck.

Any time other than this that I've face destroyes usually ends badly...In other words, me crawling along being hammered by depth charges.

[gut eater]

Basicly, avoid anything that makes noices, such as checking how far to the bottom (since this is done by sending a soundsignal and messuring time for it to come back).

...dive to a deeper depht, preferely beneth the thermolayer. Make sure to deploy a decoy on your way down for them to ping on...

How exactly do I make the ship/crew refrain from "checking how far to the bottom"?? I didn't know that was an option.

What depth is typically the "thermolayer"?

[Arclight]

Depthsounding only happens on your order, no need to worry about it. Just don't do it with warships about.

Thermal layer varies in depth, depending on temperature, salinity and what not. You'll know you're below it when you hear a voice saying "passing thermal layer". Sadly there is no BT modeled in the game apart from that voice (if you can call that BT modeling).

[captgeo]

When detected and being hunted by DD's , I usually try to head towards the closest one at flank speed with a torp ready to fire, I wait till its about 800 yrd's away and fire torp , then crash dive to thermal layer and discharge a decoy, then hard rudder for 45 degree's , trim the boat and reduce speed and creep away. Sometimes I get lucky(about 40% of the time) and the torp hit its target.

When I am trying to conserve torp's, I dont fire, and I follow the rest of the above action's.

[gut eater]

Thanks