View Full Version : Question about the deck Gun power
Hey all, i play with folling mods. Op Monsun V 500, RSRDC and TMO. But my Deck Gun is not so strong.. i shoot an shoot but nothing happend with the other ship. What kind of file i can changed to got more power for my deck gun?
Rockin Robbins
10-31-08, 05:18 AM
Well, I've made a slightly subnuclear 5 kiloton torpedo, but haven't modded the deck gun. You DO know that in real life it took 70 to 150 rounds to sink even a small freighter and anywhere between 30 minutes and over an hour, don't you?
And you didn't just surface and start firing like you do in the game. There was prep time for the gun and ammunition had to be fetched from below before you could fire a shot. Then each shot had to be timed to compensate for the roll of a highly unstable submarine. Accuracy was terrible. After you popped ineffectual tiny holes in the enemy ship for ten minutes without any visible effect, you realized that it would take five minutes or so to secure the gun and ammunition before you could submerge and you were just lollygagging on the surface waiting to be plastered by some lucky Jap bomber. What's THAT do for your accuracy?
Hey, why's that little frieghter turning? What are those people on the bow doing? Oh @#$@!!! They're ARMED! We can hit them 70 times below the waterline before they are in any danger, but if they hit us ONCE they penetrate our pressure hull and we're all dead. And unlike us, they are great shots on a stable gun platform. We have to stay up here for at least five minutes to secure the weapon before we can submerge. That gives them at least ten and maybe twenty completely unopposed chances to make every one of us into fish food.
Captain, before you decided to play battleship up here, we were invulnerable, with weapons that with one hit could cripple or kill the enemy. You chose to give up perfect safety and overwhelming superiority in weaponry for one hit and we're dead/70 hits and maybe they worry a bit and they shoot twice as fast and five times more accurately than we do. Smooth move, Ex-lax! You're a freakin' genius!;)
OK, there you are right, is only thus if one a freighter it has got and no torpedos has, was to be given quite nicely to him with the Gun rest.
Find Webster's mods in this forum. He has a deck gun and torpedo mod that makes each more powerful.
hawk2495
10-31-08, 11:50 AM
lol @ RR.... sounds a lot like a conversation i had with myself when i first started playing SH3... you say to yourself "ah i got this guy" then you see the first muzzle flash from his 3, or 4 inch gun that you didn't see before... "oh crap!" :damn::damn:
Rockin Robbins
10-31-08, 12:03 PM
lol @ RR.... sounds a lot like a conversation i had with myself when i first started playing SH3... you say to yourself "ah i got this guy" then you see the first muzzle flash from his 3, or 4 inch gun that you didn't see before... "oh crap!" :damn::damn:
Yes, in a real life or a realistic game it's a life changing experience. It might be appropriate to decide to surface to finish off that merchie, but the downside is a long way down!
Webster
10-31-08, 03:30 PM
yes my mods will help git you what you want but if you find you dont want the extra ammo or increased speed of reloads you may want to cut those parts out or try your own version of a gun mod, if thats the case PM me and i'll help you with the files.
IMO the reload time of the deck gun in TMO is way too long. i find it hard to believe that a trained crew would take that long. granted they're on a small rocking boat.. but how long does it take to open a breach (that auto-ejects the spent shell), and stick a new one in and close it?
i dont see it taking much longer than 10-15 seconds average. and that's a high estimate.
some will argue about pitching seas and rolling boats making it dangerous blah blah blah.. but if the seas were going to impede so much that it would take almost a minute to reload a gun... no captain would risk sending his men out there.
seems to me in TMO, that after each shell is spent.. the gunner himself goes below deck to grab a new shell.
as for effectiveness or power of each shot... i dunno. i think alot of the mods decrease it a tad too much. the 8.8cm gun on U-Boats was notorious as a 1 shot 1 kill tank buster on land... and thats against armored targets. last TMO mission i played.. i took my entire gun load to bring down an armed medium sized mercant.. very close range... ALL shots under the waterline.. from stern to bow.. both sides.
dont get me wrong im all for making the deck gun so that it isn't used as a primary weapon... but i think they've overdone it just a wee bit
since im raving on gun rates of fire..
what the hell did they do to the 40mm bofors anti-aircraft gun?
that is not a single shot gun! its clip fed with a rate of fire of about 160 rpm for crying out loud.
when i first fired up TMO and went to that gun. it was
fire..
wait a few seconds
fire...
nonsense!
a gun that shoots that slow is useless for its role. no navy would use that as an anti-aircraft gun.
ok, before anyone get's all fussy.. i may be talking about Real Fleet Boat.
i had tried both briefly and can't remember which one all this relates to.
Rockin Robbins
10-31-08, 07:35 PM
The idea of both mods is that it is foolhardy to shoot at armed ships with any kind of guns in any circumstances, and equally foolhardy to shoot at airplanes. In both cases you are using your submarine completely opposite its intended purpose.
The cheap and expendable submarine is supposed to have a strategic advantage of stealth, which it uses as an offensive weapon to attack much more expensive and more difficult to replace warships and merchants. At the beginning of the war, they were even heavily discouraged from torpedoing destroyers, because the mismatch wasn't great enough. The destroyer wasn't much more expensive and hard to replace than the submarine. The idea is to sink the good stuff with the cheap stuff.
When you take on an armed merchant on the surface you give up your stealth advantage and the gross advantage of your torpedoes. You now take many dozens of shots over an hour of defenseless surface time to maybe sink your victim. Your chances of death are great. Your chance of success is low.
When you shoot at airplanes, you become the expensive and hard to replace weapon against the cheap expendable airplanes. You are fighting THEIR battle instead of your own. They consider losing a few planes a small price to pay for sinking you. Chances are they WILL sink you because they have all the advantages. You have lousy AA guns on a deck that rocks all over hell and won't let you aim properly at all. Your men are being killed on deck with no shelter and you have no chance to shoot down more than one or two aircraft. Face it, you just committed suicide. And that's how the game should play to be authentic. If you survive, Admiral Lockwood should carve you some new orfices and promote you to skipper of a garbage scow when you get home. Your men should kill you before you get there. But they won't. They, unlike you, know their duty.
@gutted. The reload rates are low not because the real gun reloaded that slow, but because firing rates were that slow because of the unsteadiness of the gun platform. If you didn't time the firing for when the sights were on the horizon, and if at that precise instant you weren't aimed at the target you couldn't fire. In the game you can fire a millisecond after you load and be perfectly accurate. Since your game gun is gyro stabilized, the only way to achieve historic rates of fire is unhistorical reload rates. It works. It isn't the best of all possible worlds, but it is the best possible so far in the SH4 world. The possible firing rate is verifiable with submarine patrol reports. Nobody has been able to show that they are too slow, except for guns bolted to concrete on dry land. The gun is a place to dry laundry. That's about it. Modern submarines don't have them because they're junk.
cgjimeneza
10-31-08, 08:14 PM
the 8.8cm gun on U-Boats was notorious as a 1 shot 1 kill tank buster on land...
nope buddy, same caliber different gun and shell, and we dont want armor piercing like the famous flak 88, we want HE rounds that make big holes in your target.
but its really dangerours to use a deck gun on an unharmed merch... really bad idea.
:down:
The idea of both mods is that it is foolhardy to shoot at armed ships with any kind of guns in any circumstances, and equally foolhardy to shoot at airplanes. In both cases you are using your submarine completely opposite its intended purpose.
The cheap and expendable submarine is supposed to have a strategic advantage of stealth, which it uses as an offensive weapon to attack much more expensive and more difficult to replace warships and merchants. At the beginning of the war, they were even heavily discouraged from torpedoing destroyers, because the mismatch wasn't great enough. The destroyer wasn't much more expensive and hard to replace than the submarine. The idea is to sink the good stuff with the cheap stuff.
When you take on an armed merchant on the surface you give up your stealth advantage and the gross advantage of your torpedoes. You now take many dozens of shots over an hour of defenseless surface time to maybe sink your victim. Your chances of death are great. Your chance of success is low.
When you shoot at airplanes, you become the expensive and hard to replace weapon against the cheap expendable airplanes. You are fighting THEIR battle instead of your own. They consider losing a few planes a small price to pay for sinking you. Chances are they WILL sink you because they have all the advantages. You have lousy AA guns on a deck that rocks all over hell and won't let you aim properly at all. Your men are being killed on deck with no shelter and you have no chance to shoot down more than one or two aircraft. Face it, you just committed suicide. And that's how the game should play to be authentic. If you survive, Admiral Lockwood should carve you some new orfices and promote you to skipper of a garbage scow when you get home. Your men should kill you before you get there. But they won't. They, unlike you, know their duty.
@gutted. The reload rates are low not because the real gun reloaded that slow, but because firing rates were that slow because of the unsteadiness of the gun platform. If you didn't time the firing for when the sights were on the horizon, and if at that precise instant you weren't aimed at the target you couldn't fire. In the game you can fire a millisecond after you load and be perfectly accurate. Since your game gun is gyro stabilized, the only way to achieve historic rates of fire is unhistorical reload rates. It works. It isn't the best of all possible worlds, but it is the best possible so far in the SH4 world. The possible firing rate is verifiable with submarine patrol reports. Nobody has been able to show that they are too slow, except for guns bolted to concrete on dry land. The gun is a place to dry laundry. That's about it. Modern submarines don't have them because they're junk.
GWX does it better. instead of gimping the rate of fire and to a lesser extents its power they instead gimped its accuracy while rocking around.
Dolemite-
11-01-08, 01:25 AM
I've used both TMO and RFB, (running TMO 1.52 now) and it never takes more than 20 rounds from the deck gun to sink a ship, even without hitting it with a torp first. I aim for the water line so the shells are going through the water and hitting the submerged hull. And I hit directly beneath the smokes stacks/engine room.
SteamWake
11-01-08, 08:28 AM
IMO the reload time of the deck gun in TMO is way too long. i find it hard to believe that a trained crew would take that long. granted they're on a small rocking boat.. but how long does it take to open a breach (that auto-ejects the spent shell), and stick a new one in and close it?
This has been debated ad nausium. RFB chose the re-load times that was sort of an 'average' of common concensis.
There is a lot more to it than popping the spent shell out and tossing a new one in.
That being said mod it to suit your taste.
Personally I only ever use the gun to finish off a stubborn merchie and then usually only from a long ways off at night :rock:
It is RFB that has the slow reload times--TMO if relatively fast, and the 40mm shoots as it should. If/when you get the crewman with deck gun/AA gun special abilties he helps speed up reload times a bunch.
Rockin Robbins
11-01-08, 05:16 PM
GWX does it better. instead of gimping the rate of fire and to a lesser extents its power they instead gimped its accuracy while rocking around.
The GW are welcome to do what they can. The best modders in the game have tried for over a year on SH4 and the situation seems to be intractable. The best achieved so far, and I like it, is a test version of New Real Deck Gun (http://files.filefront.com/New+Real+Deck+Gun7z/;10203663;/fileinfo.html), which when I went back to the original author of Real Deck Gun was thoroughly panned for reasons I didn't understand. But both Real Deck Gun and New Real Deck Gun were abandoned in disgust by their authors after what they regarded as complete failure.
If the GW want in, the water's warm! They ought to jump right in and fix it. I'm pretty disgusted with a gyro stabilized deck gun. I only use it if I'm out of torpedoes and have a wounded but not sinking unarmed merchie on the surface.
Somewhere in my long list of mods I have a destabilized deck gun. It hosed a bunch of other things and was unusable for SH4. If you think this situation was tough, the destabilized deck gun made you want to puke. Yes you are correct it was not very often that the captain would decide to surface and use the deck gun.
See RFB is working correctly.
Geez people, there's how many threads about this issue already on this very forum? :roll:
IMO the reload time of the deck gun in TMO is way too long. i find it hard to believe that a trained crew would take that long. granted they're on a small rocking boat.. but how long does it take to open a breach (that auto-ejects the spent shell), and stick a new one in and close it?
Only the 5"/25 had a auto-ejecting breech. The 3"/50 was a gun originally designed for AA use, and the 4"/50 was originally a surface ship-mounted weapon. Both were not well-suited for the deck gun role on submarines:
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/guns.html
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