Recharge time vs. Surface Speed?

[Fade Anadarkus]

Does your batteries recharge at different rates based on the different surface speeds? If so which is the most efficient at charging batteries?

Thanks for the help

[CapnBlood]

The two slower speeds on your dial charge faster b/c only 1 diesel is needed for propulsion while the other works on charging the batteries.

[Defiance]

As CapnBlood said

If you're really on a tight fuel constraint, charge at night while stopped, this charges the fastest obviously

If i can i always charge at night so saving fuel and always tend to have a load left when each patrol is over

[SteamWake]

Really?

I havent noticed any change in the 'recharge rate' regardless of speed set. It takes about the same amount of time wether at ahead flank or sitting still.

It appears that at least game engine wise that recharging batteries siphons off a set amout of fuel over a period of time. The longer the charge the longer the period of time. The amount of fuel consumed appears to be a constant.

Yes you can recharge while sitting on the surface at all stop. But it does continue to consume fuel.

It might be interesting to do some controlled experiments to 'prove' my impressions.

[Defiance]

Best add the main mods i use have always been TM/TMo and ROW/PE3/PE4

Think that CCIP did the battery mod for Trigger Maru to make things more intense

I've always used the above mods and assorted others, I got that used to using them i sometimes forget that others might not be using them

If i get chance later i'll time flank speed charge time and all stop charge time

Maybe just with TM/TMo and CCIP's batt mod :-?

[Defiance]

Ok i made time for a fast time compression test lol

Using TMo PE4 and assorted visual skins

All stop charge from drained batts to fully charged was 10hrs 21mins

Flank ahead charge from drained batts to fully charged was 34hrs 18mins

Quite a difference lol

I guess Stock has no modded charge states/times ? (never really played stock you see so wouldn't know)

And for sure you use loadsa diesel up charging for longer (again maybe just the devious CCIP and Ducimus tweaks in TMo)

[Monk29]

Just curious, based on your test, did you watch the fuel consumption during the trials? I have been trying to get a grip on my fuel consumption so that I can better plan my patrols. I beleive -PV-, in a previous post, recommended that I recharge at 1/3. I usually recharge at the halt when possible, because I believe it is reducing my fuel consumption during the process (no numbers to back that up however).

[SteamWake]

Just curious, based on your test, did you watch the fuel consumption during the trials? I have been trying to get a grip on my fuel consumption so that I can better plan my patrols. I beleive -PV-, in a previous post, recommended that I recharge at 1/3. I usually recharge at the halt when possible, because I believe it is reducing my fuel consumption during the process (no numbers to back that up however).

Generally speaking best range at speed appears to be around 9.5 knots. You can verify this easly by changing speeds, waiting a few minutes for things to 'settle down' and pushing the 'range at current speed' button. Note that I have checked this with and without RFB installed and the results were roughly the same. TMO may be different.

At 10 knots the range goes down a bit, at 12 it goes down alot, at flank it is almost 1/3 of the range at 9 knots. Supprissingly at 8 knots the range is also less :hmm:

Now I havent tested this with batteries charging and without. Havent really worried about it to be honest. Unfortunatly there is no fuel flow gauge available so were relegated to a lot of guess work.

I may do a little testing tonight to try and verify things a bit more.


By the way where the hell are my manners?

Welcome to Subsim Fade !

[Rockin Robbins]

Wow! Charge at night while stopped. Does nobody care about playing realistically? That is playing like the vast majority of too-old captains at the beginning of the war whose lack of aggression and complacence required most of them to be removed from commmand and the age ceiling to be lowered for those considered for future commands.

Battery life is a matter planning, of staying on the surface every possible second and submerging only if your life depends on it. In your sugar boat you have the nimblest sub in the fleet and you can pull the plug in a hurry. Stay on the surface until you see a plane. Keep those batteries ready for use and don't let them get below half charge.

With RFB, run ahead standard and you can search maximum ocean surface area while still keeping batteries charged up. Plan ahead and there's no excuse to run around with flat batteries.

[SteamWake]

Wow! Charge at night while stopped. Does nobody care about playing realistically?

Well I do bob around full stop when I get those 'patrol' missions assigned out away from the shipping lanes. No use in burning fuel when Im pretty sure there is nothing else out there.

I do dive when aircraft are likely to spot me but spend the majority of time on the surface.

While were at it... why can I dive in roughly the same time from a complete stop vs ahead at flank... Hmmm ??? :rotfl:

By the way RR I know that RFB is supposed to offer best range at ahead standard, but check your range at current speed at ahead xxx er standard, then drop your speed to 9.5 knots and check again ;)

[Monk29]

Wow! Charge at night while stopped. Does nobody care about playing realistically? That is playing like the vast majority of too-old captains at the beginning of the war whose lack of aggression and complacence required most of them to be removed from commmand and the age ceiling to be lowered for those considered for future commands.

Ouch....

Nothing like getting your A$$ chewed by an admiral on your day off. Should have just went in to the office today.

No more casual bobbing for this guy. All Ahead 1/3, next stop, Tokyo.

..."casual bobbing"...I don't think came out right....

[Rockin Robbins]

By the way RR I know that RFB is supposed to offer best range at ahead standard, but check your range at current speed at ahead full, then drop your speed to 9.5 knots and check again ;) Ahead full and ahead standard are different. You lost me there. Is ahead standard faster than 9.5 knots?

In my sugar boat, ahead emergency is onlly half a knot faster than 9½ knots. Settin' the world on fire!

[SteamWake]

By the way RR I know that RFB is supposed to offer best range at ahead standard, but check your range at current speed at ahead full, then drop your speed to 9.5 knots and check again ;) Ahead full and ahead standard are different. You lost me there. Is ahead standard faster than 9.5 knots?

In my sugar boat, ahead emergency is onlly half a knot faster than 9½ knots. Settin' the world on fire!

woops bit of a typo... meant ahead standard :oops: Ill go fix it :|\\

Sugar boats seem to be the exception to this 'rule of thumb'. But they have a hell of a range anyhow.

But in the other boats ahead std is about 10 to 11 knots, drop it to 9.5 knots and the range increases by a good bit. Dunno why, just a sweet spot in the games programming. :roll:

[Sailor Steve]

Nothing like getting your A$$ chewed by an admiral on your day off. Should have just went in to the office today.

No more casual bobbing for this guy. All Ahead 1/3, next stop, Tokyo.

..."casual bobbing"...I don't think came out right....
Don't sweat it too much. We're nice folks here.

But we all take turns at having our 'moments'.:sunny:

[Rockin Robbins]

I used to like it when Trigger Maru had ahead 1/3 set for 9 knots, best fuel economy. Then somebody talked Ducimus out of what was a masterful scheme. RFB is OK with ahead standard being close to best fuel economy, but when I get out of the S boat it looks like I'll discover it needs tweaking.

So Steve, you think 9 1/2 knots is a more economical speed than 9? I sure hope you're right. An extra half knot would come in handy sometimes.

[Rockin Robbins]

Wow! Charge at night while stopped. Does nobody care about playing realistically? That is playing like the vast majority of too-old captains at the beginning of the war whose lack of aggression and complacence required most of them to be removed from commmand and the age ceiling to be lowered for those considered for future commands.
Ouch....

Nothing like getting your A$$ chewed by an admiral on your day off. Should have just went in to the office today.

No more casual bobbing for this guy. All Ahead 1/3, next stop, Tokyo.

..."casual bobbing"...I don't think came out right....

Yeah, and it's much worse to try to keep batteries charged in this sugar boat I'm driving right now. Every second I'm submerged I have to think "Can I surface now?" because it just takes forever to get the charge back up.

Actually, Admiral Lockwood was a lot like that in his thinking about the submarine biz. He dismissed captains right and left for not pushing all the time to develop more contacts. According to Eugene Fluckey, Lockwood would tolerate one unproductive cruise, but when you cane in with a second one, you were done. When Lockwood welcomed you back he took your log. Then when you met with him you defended every single decision during your cruise. On your way back out again he would give you copies of the logs of his top boats to study and imitate their methods and results or......off with your head!

[jamz]

I do dive when aircraft are likely to spot me but spend the majority of time on the surface.

While were at it... why can I dive in roughly the same time from a complete stop vs ahead at flank... Hmmm ??? :rotfl:


I don't know for sure, but I'm betting it's because what causes you to plunge beneath the seas is the filling of the ballast tanks with water, and that takes as much time at a dead stop as it does when you are charging along. The dive planes won't do much to push down the nose of a very bouyant boat... I think they are mostly to provide more precise shallow depth control.

In other words, your boat stays on the surface, regardless of bow plane angle, until your tanks have admitted enough water to make you heavy enough to start sinking, and this happens at the same rate regardless of your speed.

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)

[SteamWake]

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn :rotfl: Just kidding.

But really...

Im no expert either but I think if you could tuck those bow planes into the water at say 12 knots or so... the bow would dip a hella lot faster than if it was sitting still. :hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

So Steve, you think 9 1/2 knots is a more economical speed than 9? I sure hope you're right. An extra half knot would come in handy sometimes.
Me? No, I was just tryin' to spread some peace and love. I have no opinion on the subject at all. I ususally find it helpful to not have an opinion on something I know nothing about, and I know nothing about fuel usage in SH4.:sunny:

[Arclight]

You do dive faster if you're moving, but dive time from "surfaced" condition does not only depend on speed, ballast and dive plane angle. You also need to get your watch crew below deck and secure the hatches, and it's that that takes a lot of time. Try diving from a "decks awash" (no crew on deck) condition; sub will start changing depth immediatly. You'll reach desired depth a lot faster at ahead full then when stationary.

Again with the fuel?! :o :lol:

AFAIK RFB sets the "ahead standard" bell to a compromise between efficiency and speed. Yes, you can get a bit more economy out of the engines, but you'll sacrifice travel time.

"In RFB, every sub has been configured to obtain its best balance between speed and range with the Ahead Standard bell."

If you look up the range of a particular sub, it's usually note as "x miles at 10kts". To me, this means 10kts is typical cruising speed for a fleetboat. Actual speed depends on the captain and his personal preference.

All IMHO, of course. ;)
And from the "RFB perspective", can't say for stock. :hmm:

[SteamWake]

Try diving from a "decks awash" (no crew on deck) condition; sub will start changing depth immediatly.

I think that at least game wise that is because the ballast tanks are already partially full and just need that little bit more. This is probably true to some extent in real life.

As far as the crew clearing the deck they seem to just vanish in the blink of the eye :rotfl: or sometimes they dont leave the deck at all :hmm:

All this conjecture of fuel economy is really nit picking. But its kind of fun to fuss over such details.

[Arclight]

The ballast tanks already being flooded should play a part, definitely. Kinda hard to figure out how exactly the game is modeling things just by looking at it. :hmm:

When you order a dive, the boat settles a bit deeper almost immediatly and the speed will begin to drop. Then it holds for a bit, and then slowly goes under, crew "pops" ( :o ) below at ~30ft.

Probably all down to ballast (game-mechanic wise), with a small delay programmed in to simulate the crew going below and securing the hatches.



Don't get me wrong; debate the finer points of fuel economy all you want, I certainly enjoy following the discussion. I'm just to lazy to be setting my speed down to exactly 9,5kts every time nowadays. :lol:
Was pretty annoying with the excessive interruptions from planes in stock. :shifty:

[jamz]

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)
But you did stay at a Holiday Inn :rotfl: Just kidding.

But really...

Im no expert either but I think if you could tuck those bow planes into the water at say 12 knots or so... the bow would dip a hella lot faster than if it was sitting still. :hmm:

Believe it or not, I was actually typing that in a Hilton last night!

[SteamWake]

Believe it or not, I was actually typing that in a Hilton last night!

Hell that makes you even smarter ! :p

[Sledgehammer427]

...
but
...
everybodys been in a Hilton!
:rotfl: :rotfl:

[-Pv-]

I posted a report on STOCK game test results for battery endurance and charge times. I've found it necessary to link back to this discussion and report many times:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114474&highlight=battery+charge+time

It's the people running mods who have poor fuel endurance test results due to tweaks that try to lower the boat in the water to reduce wave riding artifacts. This technique causes the game engine to detect increased water resistance and decrease the range and surface speed.

Result: The stock game accurately depicts correct, historical fuel range, battery endurance and recharge times when historical techniques are applied to game playing style. In WWII, fuel was life and captains horded it like their own blood, saving every drop of reserve for aggressive attacks.

My advice to use 1/3 speed for charging was not for the purpose of increasing range but to decrease charging time while keeping your boat in an aggressive profile. You can dive quicker, evade quicker, turn faster, accelerate to full speed faster if your boat is already moving (not to mention you get to your patrol area faster, thereby increasing your kill score between port stops.)
-Pv-