First Real Career

[doulos05]

It's not terribly exciting, but I felt I had to share. In my first real attempt at a career game in SHIV (I've tried 3 or 4 other times since Sunday, but always got photo recon missions which I didn't know how to complete until I found this forum!), I started in a Sugar boat (since so many of you talk those up) in Asiatic fleet. The boat was great, although being so slow took some getting used to. Anyway, I'm on my way to my patrol and I intercept a task force. Well, 2 DDs and a small gun boat (What's he doing 200 nm out to sea?). It's just past midnight, and their course will take them just off my bow, about 3000 yards. I dive to periscope depth move in so they'll pass within 1000, popping up the periscope about every 30 seconds to verify bearing and range to target. As he passes through 1000 yards, his bearing is about 15 (I've overshot, hope this won't be bad), but he's nearly perfectly perpendicular to me). I take my chance, up periscope for the final attack and just as the periscope slips above the water, I go blind! :o I suppose he was doing random sweeps with his searchlight (seems like a dumb thing to do) and I just happened to pop up right in the middle of his sweep (by the way, they did a brilliant job with the AI for that, the way the light swept over me, I thought I was clear and then suddenly it snapped back onto me and I could see his signal lights going off like the 4th of July was great to see :D until he started shelling the periscope that is :damn: ).

So, I had a solid solution, at 800 yards, I take my chance and let loose tubes 1 and 3 (just to be sure he wasn't confused as to the nationality of the periscope he was looking at) and I crash dive. No torpedo impacts heard, I spent about an hour dodging in and out of the thermal layer I found at 160 ft (lucky me, I figured in a sugar boat, thermals would be out of the question). Several depth chargings, although I believe they missed because they weren't deep enough.

Anyway, I finally break contact and move away (no sense attacking a group of alerted DDs). I complete my patrol off Burneo (unable to avert the invasion), and I'm now patroling the coast hoping to intercept supply convoys.

It's almost 2 am, rainy, I'm running on the surface because... well, it's 2 am and rainy, who's gonna see me? Also, since I'm patrolling, I'm running at 256 TC. Suddenly I get the "Warship Spoted" popup. I figure, it's 2 am and rainy. I won't dive to periscope depth, I'll pop up on the bridge myself and have a look-see. Not like they can see me, right? So I give the order to Maintain course and head top-side to see what I can see, and boy can I see it. Not 200 yards off our bow is a DD. As soon as I have it in my binoculars, I am once more blinded by a spotlight. I order a crash dive as accurate shellfire opens up for 4 ships off my bow. Deck gun damaged, the entire watch crew is red in the crew management screen. Doh! I wanted the DC screen, not the crew management screen! Quick, over to the... *BOOM* *BOOM* *BOOM* "We're taking on water!" and that was the end. I assume the booms were depth charges, as on my way down, I caught glimpse of a DD off my port lining up for a run.

So... I'm not quite sure what to learn from this. Surely American submarines didn't run submerged on rainy nights, yet clearly that is why I ran smack dab into the middle of a Jap task force. So, I guess the questions I'm asking are:

1) What am I supposed to learn from this?
2) How do you handle your searches in 1941? By this I mean Time Compression, sonar sweeps (I don't think any boats get surface radar in 1941, right? That was developed in 1942, wide-spread in 1943; or do I have my dates wrong?), visual sweeps, surface running vs. periscope depth vs. running deep, etc.

I opted for a TC of 256-512 because I missed intercept with a big, fat, juicy convoy because I had TC set at 1024 and by the time I had read the transmission, 2 hours had passed and I was out of position for the intercept. I was just running on the surface (I bought the Air Defense radar, so I figured I'd be warned of any airborne threats with enough time to dive and that it wouldn't hurt to run on the surface as much as possible, but it would seem that was wrong. What do you guys think and do here?

By the way, I have finally returned to the genre from Silent Service on the NES. Yes, that's where I got my start. It's been a long absence, but man I'm glad I hopped into SHIV on patch 1.4, it's freaking amazing.

[SteamWake]

First off welcome to sub sim.

Glad you found them and they could help.

I dident have time to read your entire post while at work but seems like a good report.

Two things jumped out from my breif scan though.

"No torpedo impacts heard"... It is not at all uncommon to have two duds in a row. Hell I had 6 in a row one time. However there are a couple of things that alot of nubs overlook. 1.) Dont forget to open the torpedo bay doors first (Q key) forgetting to do so will screw with your solutions and make you miss aft. 2.) Double check your depth settings, WWII torpedos are notorious for running deeper than set. I generally set them shallow and go for impact detonations espically in rough weather.

"Subs wouldent run submerged at night in the rain"... Well they might for two reasons. If the sea state was high (big waves) its a hella lot more comfortable below them. Also they might dip occassionally for a sound check. In that sort of weather you can hear alot further than you can see. As you found out. If I was in transit though I probably wouldent bother.

Dont worry I have smacked into the side of a merchant more than once in bad weather. Stuff happens. :rotfl:

[doulos05]

1.) Dont forget to open the torpedo bay doors first (Q key) forgetting to do so will screw with your solutions and make you miss aft. 2.) Double check your depth settings, WWII torpedos are notorious for running deeper than set. I generally set them shallow and go for impact detonations espically in rough weather.

"Subs wouldent run submerged at night in the rain"... Well they might for two reasons. If the sea state was high (big waves) its a hella lot more comfortable below them. Also they might dip occassionally for a sound check. In that sort of weather you can hear alot further than you can see. As you found out. If I was in transit though I probably wouldent bother.


Q, THAT's how you open the torpedo bay doors. I practically tore my manual apart trying to find that after I read about opening the bay doors here yesterday afternoon! I knew you needed to do that (I mean come on, that line is in every sub movie ever created "Flood tubes 1 and 3 and open torpedo bay doors." Plus, I seem to remember NES's Silent Service not firing at all if you didn't open the doors), but I had no clue how to and so I just assumed that either 1) It was handled auto-magically when using auto-targeting or 2) I was going to have to just live with it.

Also, I checked the depth settings on tube 1, but not tube 3. I set it at 5 feet, the draft on the destroyer I was targeting was 12.5, so I figured I be good. The default was a 10 ft draft. I'm using Mk10's, since I'm on a sugar so I didn't think they had as many problems with duds. I thought their problem was only running deep.

When I actually fired the torpedoes, the seas were smooth, with small swells. I've been lurking the forums since Sunday in preparation for getting to play last night and I saw a few posts about that as well (plus I'm a WWII history buff, so I've seen it mentioned in a few books).

Re: Patrolling, it sounds like I'm just gonna have to run at like 32x or 64x and set a routine. Sonar sweeps at the bottom of the hour and visual sweeps at the top. Good opportunity to practice crash dives anyway, run my sonar sweeps from 130 ft instead of from 55 ft. Also, since running submerged doesn't expend fuel and batteries are rechargable, that means time spent submerged is semi-free MPGs for your boat, right? I know that recharging the batteries reduces the top speed of the engines, so you pay for it eventually. But do you pay less? Also, I've seen somewhere on here something about choosing not to charge your batteries while running on the surface, how does that work?

[SteamWake]

Q, THAT's how you open the torpedo bay doors. I practically tore my manual apart trying to find that after I read about opening the bay doors here yesterday afternoon! I knew you needed to do that (I mean come on, that line is in every sub movie ever created "Flood tubes 1 and 3 and open torpedo bay doors." Plus, I seem to remember NES's Silent Service not firing at all if you didn't open the doors), but I had no clue how to and so I just assumed that either 1) It was handled auto-magically when using auto-targeting or 2) I was going to have to just live with it.

Also, I checked the depth settings on tube 1, but not tube 3. I set it at 5 feet, the draft on the destroyer I was targeting was 12.5, so I figured I be good. The default was a 10 ft draft. I'm using Mk10's, since I'm on a sugar so I didn't think they had as many problems with duds. I thought their problem was only running deep.

When I actually fired the torpedoes, the seas were smooth, with small swells. I've been lurking the forums since Sunday in preparation for getting to play last night and I saw a few posts about that as well (plus I'm a WWII history buff, so I've seen it mentioned in a few books).

Re: Patrolling, it sounds like I'm just gonna have to run at like 32x or 64x and set a routine. Sonar sweeps at the bottom of the hour and visual sweeps at the top. Good opportunity to practice crash dives anyway, run my sonar sweeps from 130 ft instead of from 55 ft. Also, since running submerged doesn't expend fuel and batteries are rechargable, that means time spent submerged is semi-free MPGs for your boat, right? I know that recharging the batteries reduces the top speed of the engines, so you pay for it eventually. But do you pay less? Also, I've seen somewhere on here something about choosing not to charge your batteries while running on the surface, how does that work?

Yes go ahead tear up the manual thats about all its good for since about 90% of it came from SH3 :rotfl:

Auto targeting is notorious for being 'wrong' on the depth settings. Also either with or without auto target if you neglect to open the doors the 'system' does it for you but delays your shot by a few seconds. Enough to screw up your solution. Furthermore the torps even the Mk10 tend to run a bit deep. Also Mk10's still have duds just a few less than Mk14's. Best way to narrow down all these pesky variables is to get close to your intended target. I rarely take a shot outside of 1,200 yards. If its a destroyer or other combat ship even closer, like 600 yards. Thats why I rarely take shots at them.

When dipping for a sound check, I typically go to around 80 feet at no TC and do a sweep by myself. Often I can pick up things my sonar man doesent. Then again I dont do it all that often. At 80 feet it doesent take that long to either Periscope depth or surface.

"Batteries are free mpg" False... lets say youre batteries are at 50%, you surface and order ahead 9 knots. You will burn more fuel to maintain that speed than if your batterys were charged. Your best range / speed in the stock game is around 9.5 knots. S boats being the exception. I forget what their best range speed is but they have a hellua range anyhow.

There is a button under the 'command' button set. Looks like a battery with a lightning bolt on it. Click that. You will run without recharging the battery. Usually only used when you need and increased top speed when running down a contact. Try to keep your batts topped off. Someday you will be glad you did.

You seem to rely on time compression alot. I use TC alot too but only go to the really high rates when in transit. While patrolling I rarely exceeded 1024.

[kylesplanet]

Just to add my pitiful bit of knowledge to the discussion, I stay surfaced as much as possible, especially in a S boat because they take forever and a day to charge and if get into trouble with the bad guys, they may keep you pinned down for a long time. If your battery is not up, they'll be building memorials for you.:dead:

Welcome aboard at Subsim!:up:

[Diopos]

...
Re: Patrolling, it sounds like I'm just gonna have to run at like 32x or 64x and set a routine. Sonar sweeps at the bottom of the hour and visual sweeps at the top. Good opportunity to practice crash dives anyway, run my sonar sweeps from 130 ft instead of from 55 ft. Also, since running submerged doesn't expend fuel and batteries are rechargable, that means time spent submerged is semi-free MPGs for your boat, right? I know that recharging the batteries reduces the top speed of the engines, so you pay for it eventually. But do you pay less? Also, I've seen somewhere on here something about choosing not to charge your batteries while running on the surface, how does that work?

Doule,
If (and as long as) you don't have a radar your sonar is your "scouting instrument" plus your bridge lookouts. And yes that means regular dives and "listening" periods even more so in low visibility conditions. Don't let your crew do all the "listening". They won't report contacts that have a "low signal" or that they consider as "undentified" even if they are fairly loud. I always "listen" the first sweeps myself, go on time comperssion for the next 10-15 minutes (game time), listen again surface and proceed to the next "listening spot".
And in pitch black visibility going on low speed would probably be SOP.

There is no free MPG when you are submerged. It's a loan. You pay it later when surfaced!:yep: Thermodynamics says that energy conversion always carries an entropy cost. :know: Of course the important thing is what Ubisoft says on the issue!:yep: :D :) :rotfl:

In the control room --> bottom screen --> buttons the one next to the Silent Running button. Extremely important as under certain conditions (damage) your battery may not recharge fully at 100% but only reach 99% which means your diesel engines are essentialy at flank speed (trying to recharge batteries) regardles of your boat speed (this is according to post of more experienced guys and it sure seems they knew what they were talking about).

'Αντε και καλά ταξίδια!

PS: When I started answering to doulos I thought I would be the first to respond, then the daughter started to cry, then the wife phoned, then the mother phoned. FAMILY is DESTROYING my POSTING!!!!:damn:
Family values blah!!!!!!:nope:
What about posting values?:doh:

[SteamWake]

What about posting values?:doh:

Interwebs is serious stuff :rotfl:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/interwebswrong-1.jpg

[Seminole]

So... I'm not quite sure what to learn from this.

Two things:

1.Never assume you are "safe from" _________....(fill in the blank)

2. Always proceed with extreme caution

[Falkirion]

1) What am I supposed to learn from this?

That you're never safe, even in the middle of the night on high seas, I had a similar encounter off Japan recently, I heard a convoy of three merchants plus a guard of 4 DDs. I decided to let it pass, suddenly one of the DDs turns out to be a patrol from the mainland and closes to within 400 yards before he finally goes away. If you get a contact dont run high TC, always pause check where the contact is in relation to you and monitor for a few minutes to determine a rough course, then decide if you want to chance a look or leave it alone. Leaving it alone, especially if its a warship is generally a better option.

2) How do you handle your searches in 1941? By this I mean Time Compression, sonar sweeps (I don't think any boats get surface radar in 1941, right? That was developed in 1942, wide-spread in 1943; or do I have my dates wrong?), visual sweeps, surface running vs. periscope depth vs. running deep, etc.

Surface running vs periscope vs running deep. I prefer surfacing at night to recharge the batteries I nearly flatten during the day running between periscope and deep at 3 knots. Thats just my way though. I preform hydrophone checks every 2 hours but generally leave it up to the sonarman to alert me to any contacts that come close enough to intercept.

[SteamWake]

I nearly flatten during the day running between periscope and deep at 3 knots.

Try running at 2 to 2.5 knots... I know it sounds silly but... just try it.

[doulos05]

Well, second attempt same result, or nearly so. Same basic setup: S-Boat, patrol east of the Celebres Sea, only I was in a position when the Fox came out re: the invasion of Burneo to head to the East coast (approximately where the invasion happened). I shadowed a large task force for about 14 hours (15+ warships and a merchant) however high seas and driving rain prevented me from getting a solid visual on them. I closed to within medium range of the escorts according to my sonar operator (not sure how close that is, but my noob guess is ~4000-5000 yards. Can someone give me an idea of what range bands my sonar operator is reporting contacts in?) but unfortunately I mis-judged their course (well, actually not so much the course as their distance from me) and was unable to intercept.

Next day, I'm running on the surface to recharge because I ran my batteries down to about 20% pursuing (I made better speed submerged because of the rough seas so I stayed there to try to intercept). "Radar contact, unknown, bearing 185, long range, very fast". I pop over to the map and sure enough, there's the gray square. It's 1941, I only have air search radar. I pop up on deck, thinking "But it was raining just an hour ago!" (Game time, I was keeping a close eye on my Time compression). To my dismay, the skies have cleared and just as I climbed through the hatch onto the deck, the watch reports "Aircraft spotted, bearing 190." Popping back to the map, my fears are confirmed. This isn't a PBY. "Crash Dive!" We dive and spend 10 minutes submerged.

On our way back to the surface, as soon as the radar activates, more contacts aft. A quick plot of the contacts reveals I must be sitting right under a major airway for the japs. These two look like they'll pass about 10 nautical miles port and starboard of us, so I opt to remain surfaced as long as possible to recharge the batteries. "Radar contact, bearing 180, long range!" Well, there's no missing this one, "Crash dive!" Since it's already 1500, I decide it's best to try to ride out the rest of the afternoon submerged, hoping for safer sailing under the cover of darkness. I order us to 80 ft and make ahead 1/3. No sonar contacts through the afternoon.

At 1830, we rig for red and so I assume that we're near to the cover of darkness Not a whole lot of option, my batteries are at 1% despite my conservations from earlier. Still no sonar contacts, so I bring us to periscope depth. Two sweeps show no visual contacts, I put us on the deck. "Radar contact, bearing 35, long range. Radar contact, bearing 250, long range." The last enemy patrol on it's way back home. I can't submerge, no battery. And I can't fight them, no AA gun. So I order all stop and hope that the 5 nautical miles between me and their closest approach will be enough. It wasn't. "Crash Dive!" But it's too late, at 40 ft, the batteries fail, slowing our dive just in time for... *BOOM* *BOOM* Ok, hopefully the damage isn't bad. Report of flooding aft... Deck gun destroyed, wait how were the crew of the deck gun injured? We're under 46 ft of water, it's not like they're standing beside it! Diesel engines destroyed!? NOOOOOO!:damn:

The flooding wasn't major, the deck crew will survive, and the planes called off their attack after a few minutes with no more serious damage. But, with no batteries and no diesels... it was game over

My conclusions?

1) My intercept skills need work. I should have been able to intercept that task force. The rough seas should have given me an edge in the attack, since it would restrict their visibility and speed without hindering my sonar or submerged speed. However since I misjudged the intercept, I could not position myself for an attack, even though the angles would have been perfect had I managed to (given their position and course and my position, I should have intercepted them at a near-perfect 90 degrees.) I'm sure someone has done a guide on sonar-only intercepts, can someone direct me to that?

2) Planes suck.
3) Much as I want to start at the beginning and play to the end, I probably need to do the reverse of that. Starting in 1945 with a Balao class sub is probably far easier because the boat is faster, the torpedoes and deck guns are more effective, you have surface and air search radar, PPI, AA guns in case you're stuck on the surface, etc, etc. I probably need to begin by attempting the scenarios, then the single patrols, then the career (although I'm most excited about the career, that's why I started there)
4) Planes really do suck.

Does anybody have any other tactical or game-play advice based on my latest blunder(s)?

[Arclight]

1. Er... you don't need batteries to dive. If you need to disappear from view for a while, just sink down to preferred depth and wait it out. Only thing you need to keep an eye on then is oxigen.

2. Planes do indeed suck.

[Heinz_McDurgen]

Yeah, I've been getting into this this past week due to having shoulder surgery last week. I've played a few careers, none ending well. A plane shot up one of my ships and my most successful run fell 400nm short of a re-fueling point. Still trying to get the hang of it though.

[kylania]

Yeah, I've been getting into this this past week due to having shoulder surgery last week. I've played a few careers, none ending well. A plane shot up one of my ships and my most successful run fell 400nm short of a re-fueling point. Still trying to get the hang of it though.

Welcome to Subsim Heinz! If you end up using one of the mods like Trigger Maru Overhauled it comes with a "Estimate Range at Current Speed" which can be helpful in keeping track of how far you can get. I usually keep things at Standard speed, but based on this thread next time I'm gonna try the 9-9.5kts and see if that does help.

Keep up the careers and try some of the mods out there, they can really change the game.

[SteamWake]

I've played a few careers, none ending well.

Actually most dont :oops:

Its a dangerous game we play :smug:

Keep on pluggin at it youll get better with practice.

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