Mark 10 vs Mark 14

[PFK]

Hi all just new to the game.I notice that on first patrol I got a mix of Mark 10 and mark 14 torpedoes. I see historically the Mark 10 seems to be a WW1 vintage. Has anyone noticed a difference between them in combat?

[gmuno]

Welcome to the boards!
Mk 10 is slower and has got less range than the Mk 14's but it's got a better functioning detonator.
Err, which subtype, which base and what mod are you playing with? Mixed loadouts are a bit strange in stock-game.

[Seminole]

To tell the truth,from the ranges I shoot at ( usually close) ..I haven't seen much performance difference ,in game ,between the 10,the 14 ,or the 23...:shifty: they all hit, they all explode ..mostly... depends on mod and difficulty setting you choose , and they all sink the target..


Good to see another new hand.....welcome aboard ...enjoy your stay...

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

[PFK]

Welcome to the boards!
Mk 10 is slower and has got less range than the Mk 14's but it's got a better functioning detonator.
Err, which subtype, which base and what mod are you playing with? Mixed loadouts are a bit strange in stock-game.


USS Gar from Pearl Harbour ; there was a couple of 10's in the loadout

[SteamWake]

First of all welcome to sub sim...

Sending you out with a 'mix' is a bit unusual but not a big deal really.

As said before the only differences are speed and range, the yield should be different as well but I dont really know if that is modeled.

I dident know that the 10's detonators are more reliable and that may be well worth considering. (See my post about 6 duds).

Frankly Ive been loading up with 14's and shoving off without even thinking about 10's.

[CapnBlood]

If your actualy going to try for keel shots I would stick with the mk10s they keep set depth way better and less chance for duds than 14s but if your just letting them loose at 2m close to 90degrees keep the 14s for the better warheads. If I remeber mk10s are +-1.2 meters and mark 14s are +-3.2 meters.

Personally I keep nothing but mk10s in my aft tubes for taking out destroyers with reliable keel shots when there chasing me down.

There are some threads on the forum for exact warhead potential, depth probs, and dud chances for each of the different torps.

[GunnersMate]

Here's a thead that explains all the torpedos http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=6421019045&m=6561097865&r=7161042965

[Seminole]

Wow.. :o somebody went through the torpedo related files with a fine tooth comb...

That is about as much as anyone could ever want to know on the subject I suspect.

I saw the data was from V1.2....I suppose most or all still is valid through 1.5?...wonder how much has been changed by mods?



This caught my eye:

shoot in calm sees...(sic)

Is that wishful thinking or what???....


Another;

Premature torpedo detonations
Premature detonations depend exclusively on the torpedo type, time period and state of the sea (waves). In rough seas, look for up to 60% prematures, while in calm seas this value drops significantly.

Now seriously..this one concerns me. I haven't seen a premature detonation in a long, long time..maybe a couple of versions back now that I think about it.

I wonder why they would have stopped? I play with DUDs Enabled

[Nunya]

Now seriously..this one concerns me. I haven't seen a premature detonation in a long, long time..maybe a couple of versions back now that I think about it.

I wonder why they would have stopped? I play with DUDs Enabled

When I was using auto-lock, I was seeing pre-dets. about every 3rd or 4th torpedo. Now that I'm using TMO/RSRD and manual targeting, I'm seeing a pre-det very seldom.

Don't know if either one of these, the mods or the auto-lock, have anything to do with it, or if it is just because I am later in the war.

[CapnBlood]

The premature detonations have calmed down in the patches but dud chances and depth keeping probs are still there as far as I can tell.

[SteamWake]

Ive had a few premies with RFB installed.

Usually yes under the conditions described.

[aanker]

In SH4 I prefer the Mark 14's.

Due to early war torpedo shortages it would not be unusual to see Mark 10's on a fleet boat.

In addition to this RW information:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

Mark 10: Range: 3,500 yards at 36 knots
Explosive Charge: 497 lbs. T.N.T. - Later improved to 485 lbs. Torpex

Mark 14: Range: 4,500 yards at 46 knots / 9,000 yards at 31 knots
Explosive Charge: 507 lbs. T.N.T. - Later improved to 668 lbs. Torpex

Happy Hunting!

Art

[SteamWake]

Mark 10: Range: 3,500 yards at 36 knots
Explosive Charge: 497 lbs. T.N.T. - Later improved to 485 lbs. Torpex

Mark 14: Range: 4,500 yards at 46 knots / 9,000 yards at 31 knots
Explosive Charge: 507 lbs. T.N.T. - Later improved to 668 lbs. Torpex

Happy Hunting!

Art

Given I hardly ever take a shot out side of 3,000 yards im not seeing a whole of diference here.

I tried a few mark 10's tonight with good results. I'll be keepint some on board from now on.

Thanks

[Arclight]

For me the difference is that the mark 10s actually work. :shifty:

It's because I'm using RFB, but with a "perfect" solution (90deg) and torp set to high speed, I see ~75% duds. Mark 10s, 0% duds (up untill now). I never use the mag. pistol, it's bad enough as it is. Knowing how to use the mark 14s (slow speed and glancing angles) and using them that way makes them somewhat reliable at best. I've wasted tons of mark 14s in trying to finish of a crippled, stationary target. So for that purpose I always carry a couple of mark 10s.

Again, this is with RFB. In stock you would probably only notice a slight decrease in duds with the mark 10 (apart from the obvious difference in range and speed).

[Orion2012]

If your actualy going to try for keel shots I would stick with the mk10s they keep set depth way better and less chance for duds than 14s but if your just letting them loose at 2m close to 90degrees keep the 14s for the better warheads. If I remeber mk10s are +-1.2 meters and mark 14s are +-3.2 meters.

Personally I keep nothing but mk10s in my aft tubes for taking out destroyers with reliable keel shots when there chasing me down.

There are some threads on the forum for exact warhead potential, depth probs, and dud chances for each of the different torps.

I thought the MK10's ONLY had an impact detonator, making shooting for a keel shot, kind of difficult.

Also, the chances of a dud are reduced by 50% when shooting on the slow speed setting in RFB.

[SteamWake]

Also, the chances of a dud are reduced by 50% when shooting on the slow speed setting in RFB.

I shot a couple of mk10's at a destroyer tonight. Inside of 800 yards. At slow settings.

Of course he picked them up right away and went instaflank. But the the first one caught em.... doink :damn: dud. The second missed by a long ways.

After that he was well up to speed, hard on the tiller, and tossing a few rounds towards my scope.

In shallow water all we could do is lower the scope, make some turns and played the part of the hunted for about 150 miles.

We did finally get away.

[Jetman123]

I honestly now prefer to keep mark 10s in my rear tubes, as after a bit of experimenting (not much, mind you) it fits my playstyle. Let the convoy drift over you, pop to periscope depth, torpedo everything in sight. Then run. Let the destroyers chase you. Go at flank battery speed and then 1/3d to make them overshoot, and make lots of crazy turns to throw their depth charges off. All the while shooting mark 10s at their keel.

Lower range? Yes. Lower speed? Yes. But at short range (which most destroyers will be at when they're trying to depth charge you) none of that matters. What matters is it's more reliable for a keel shot. I've blown open a Japanese destroyer's bow right when it was chasing me, and sunk it in a single close-range shot off the keel.

[Orion2012]

I believe that the dude rate change only applies to the MK14's.

In theory, shooting at a slower speed would have helped during the war. Everything I've read has indicated that the firing pin was crushed before the firing mechanism was triggered, due to the increased forces involved in the higher speed setting on the new MK14. The MK14 did have a new, untested magnetic detonator, but the impact detonator was the same as in the new MK14, hince the problem with the higher amount of force crated at impact crushing the pin.

[aanker]

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.

The Mark 14 was the only torpedo to have a fast/slow setting though the slow setting was rarely used. The Mark 14 used the Mark 6 detonator which as you know caused a lot of problems because the magnetic influence detonator didn't work. Also, early in the War the firing pin would break if used on the fast setting for contact hits and both the Mark 10 and Mark 14 had problems running deep; typically running 10' deeper than set.

By mid 1943 "Uncle Charlie" ordered tests of the Mark 6 detonator and CinCPac Admiral Nimitz ordered all boats under his command to disable the magnetic exploder and fire for contact hits.

Hondo has great information about this on his site:
http://www.valoratsea.com/torp.htm

Heck, Hondo has great information on everything related to the US Submarine War in the Pacific on his site! ... lol
http://www.valoratsea.com/

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Arclight]

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:

[aanker]

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:
I am not surprised. When SH4 was first released there were many complaints that the magnetic influence exploder didn't work so the Dev's probably 'fixed it'.

I think I remember reading somewhere that even the Germans and Brits gave up on it early in the War because it didn't work for them either.

"It's a game" - like someone said in another thread... lol

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Zayphod]

If your actualy going to try for keel shots I would stick with the mk10s they keep set depth way better and less chance for duds than 14s but if your just letting them loose at 2m close to 90degrees keep the 14s for the better warheads. If I remeber mk10s are +-1.2 meters and mark 14s are +-3.2 meters.

Personally I keep nothing but mk10s in my aft tubes for taking out destroyers with reliable keel shots when there chasing me down.

You know, that's not a bad idea (mark 10's in the aft tubes). I'll try that on my next patrol.

[Sailor Steve]

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:
The Mk 10 was 15' 3" in length, and the Mk 14, at 20' 6", was more than 5 feet longer. Could they even be used in the same tubes?
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PreWWII.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

And once again the game is wrong. The Mk 3 exploder used in the Mk 10 torpedo was indeed contact only.

[SteamWake]

Steve Im pretty sure the Mk10's could be launched out of the bigger tubes as they were the same diameter.

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.

[LukeFF]

The Mk 10 was 15' 3" in length, and the Mk 14, at 20' 6", was more than 5 feet longer. Could they even be used in the same tubes?
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PreWWII.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

Yes. In the early months of the war a number of fleet boats took Mark 10s out on patrol, when the Mark 14 was in short supply.

[Arclight]

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.

[SteamWake]

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.

Thanks for confirming that, so play with that switch and make it go click all ya want... its still a contact only fuse.

[aanker]

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.
Thanks for confirming that, so play with that switch and make it go click all ya want... its still a contact only fuse.
Thanks for confirming that and I apologize for my incorrect remark above where I thought that maybe the Dev's bent to the pressure to 'fix it' - after someone said the influence exploder worked w/Mark 10's. The Dev's got it right and stuck to their guns.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[elanaiba]

What comment? Where? were we supposed to fix something ? :D

Just re-checked it myself. No magnetic detonation for the Mark 10. And the dud rate (stock) is less than the Mark 14. As it should be.

:)

[Rockin Robbins]

And the dud rate (stock) is less than the Mark 14. As it should be.

:)

That's SO reassuring. My first cruise with a sugar boat, yesterday, I was playing tag with three escorts and a 10,000 ton prize. Three torpedoes left, all Mark 10s. Shot the first from 450 yards http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hit-with-club.gif

I waited and he steamed ahead unimpeded in spite of a nice hole in his bow below the water line. I raised the scope and aimed a shot at his stern. BOOM! Another nice hole below the water line and he cruised on.

Well, it's RFB and the exorts are sniffing around. I'll have to shoot this last one before they're on top of me. I aimed the last shot for the beam--this is the payoff shot, the last torpedo on this can of Spam. My first S-boat cruise and I'm about to return eith 20,000 tons. The torpedo runs straight and true right into the side of my hapless victim and....nothing. It was a dud. I get to return to port with less than 10,000 tons. This will not look good on my resume.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/thinking-016-1.gif

[SteamWake]

LOL I know one thing... even the Mk10's tend to run deep.

I started a new carrer in an S boat 1942 out of brisbane last night.

Was patrolling an area when a small pack of 4 DD's came cruising towards me.

An easy setup. Since Im gunshy of the duds and believe in overkill I set up on the DD that was going to pass the closest and launched all 4 tubes at him. Depth set for 5 foot. Range 1,500 yards a bit far but maybe Ill get lucky. All 4 in the water we dove, turned away, and rigged for silent for the inevitable.

I then popped to the external cam... just cant help myself :rotfl: and watched and waited for the carnage. Looks like a good shot ! good thing I lead the shot a bit with the last two, the DD starts getting up to speed when the first torp is close.

I then watched in disbelief as all 4 were lined up perfect even the last two with offsets for a 'moving' target. One after another torpedo approached the DD, one after another slipped beneath his keel and kept on going :damn:

On the bright side we eluded their retaliation fairly easy even though they were pinging, scooting, listening and dropping DC's seemingly at random. Man that S boat can scoot under water :smug: but good lord those batts take a long time to recharge.