seperate sticky for Uboat-mods?

[Paajtor]

I know this forum-section is for general SH4Uboat-addon stuff.
But having mods listed in the "stock" SH4 section - a different forum-section - is a bit awkward, isn't it?

Can we have a sticky here, which lists all the addon-compatible mods (released mods, and WIP ones)?
The relevant mods may still be elsewhere on these boards, but at least the addon-info is all gathered here, and linked to.

[bigboywooly]

Hmmmm now theres the thing
Addon compatable mods for US play
Or Ge play ???

Perhaps tis better to leave 1.5 compatable mods in the SH4 mods workshop and add addon ( uboat ) mods in here

Or

:damn:

Now tis confusing

[AVGWarhawk]

We had a brief discussion of this a few days ago. As you know, our great modders are very vigilant in advising what their mods are compatible with and what will not work. The decision was to keep all the modding work in the SH4 modding section. We only ask that the user read the thread and find out what the mod is compatible with. The feeling here eventually is all the mods will be compatible with the addon.

[bigboywooly]

To a certain extent yes
If someone starts adding mods just for the uboat they may not be compatable with the US career
Not delved into the game too much but as adding Ge voices means no US ones until Ge ones removed am guessing the addon shares a lot of files

What I am unelegantly trying to say
lol
Is mods that are added just for the uboat side - even though will work with 1.5 which the addon is - may not run ok for a US career

Does that make sense
lol
Does in my head

[MONOLITH]

To a certain extent yes
If someone starts adding mods just for the uboat they may not be compatable with the US career
Not delved into the game too much but as adding Ge voices means no US ones until Ge ones removed am guessing the addon shares a lot of files



I agree with him.

You can keep the SH4 mods forum as is, just create a UBOAT specific mods subforum; just like you have an add-on subforum right now under SH4.

The German voices is a perfect example.

But other things will come, like interfaces specifically for the uboats that will have nothing to do with the US side of things.

There are so many mods right now, it's already a bit daunting. I think somehow organizing "UBOAT specific" mods into a seperate category is a good idea.


Logistically, SH4 really is two games in one now. Two seperate mod sections would be appropriate, and less confusing.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, it makes sense BBW but, thread titles should be specific to what it is. For example: New Orders Bar/German Uboats or Campaign Layers SH4UBM. Besides, just how many forums do you guys need me to moderate:smug: What we might be able to do is sticky in the SH4 mod forums much like Neal did. One sticky, within that post contains all the links to the mods for uboat only. How is that idea?

[SuperCavitation]

Something like:

Title: [REL][1.5 UBoat] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US/Uboat] Name of the mod


...would be easy on noobs like me...

[AVGWarhawk]

Now that looks darn simple.

[howler93]

Something like:

Title: [REL][1.5 UBoat] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US/Uboat] Name of the mod

Brilliant! :up: I, too, would love to see something like this. Anything that would simplify things would go a long way...

Howler :arrgh!:

[AkbarGulag]

Please, no seperate threads and forums for mods for 1.5 :cry:

One thread for mods will let you scroll through, you find a mod you like, it takes you to the topic page the author made, and wallah. you can see if it is compatable.

Reason: MOD's that are compatable with both campaign's will now need to be seperated over two threads, if two seperate area's are made.

Having two seperate threads is also like preparing for a situation where modders never look at one side of the campaign. And to be honest, the reality is current modders, including super-mods will be champing at the bit to start making their mods work in both campaigns. No one is going to just spend all that time making a massive MOD but leave one area out. It isn't really that difficult to make mods work for both theatres. All you will be doing is making extra work for the moderators, and by proxy having double links. One in one thread and one in another.

[AVGWarhawk]

My thought also Akbargulag. If the modder posts the title correctly there should be no confusion.

[Paajtor]

Title: [REL][1.5 UBoat] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US/Uboat] Name of the mod

I like this!:rock:

Maybe it should be posted here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107790), and/or here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119504).

[SuperCavitation]

@Akbar: I like that, too. If it is all contained in one thread, in one forum, the titles should still adhere to some degree of continuity to separate the 1.4 bizwax from the 1.5.

It would be unwise, at this point, to assume that everyone who plays 1.4 will gain the addon within the course of the next two months. There are issues with the UK, issues with dialup speeds, issues with a lack of medium for the addon, and so on. And I'm willing to bet there will be mods for 1.5 within said "two months" -- if not sooner. A categorization is necessary, I'm just throwing an idea out there.

This issue bears a strong resemblance to when the 2nd expansion to Rainbow 6 III came out (after Athena Sword); it was also by download only. The name escapes me but I haven't forgotten the nightmare it spawned. Don't know if anyone here was a part of that world as well but I'm sure they can vouch.

Of course there is always the possiblilty that something created for the US end of 1.5 won't breaek someone running 1.4, but I'm not holding my breath. :|\\

[AkbarGulag]

Something like:

Title: [REL][1.5 UBoat] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US/Uboat] Name of the mod


...would be easy on noobs like me...
Ok, I see the logic in this. But beyond saying [REL] the author has got all the leeway he needs to define it with the name he gives it.

For example.

[REL]IXD Prop Fix.

Well, that clearly has to be 1.5 u-boat add-on.

As opposed to.

[REL]Sargo Prop Fix.

Sure, not as clear. But it certainly is not for the U-boat. Although MAY be for 1.5.

The only way to clear that up is to go to the authors page. My bet is, if you are looking for a Sargo Prop fix, you will click on that link even if it is not for 1.5.

I can still see positive repercussions of that initiatve SuperCavitation. After all, these are primarily search parameters. Not advertising headers. But keep debating it... be interesting to see other peoples logic on this.

EDIT:

I think some people want a mod section for 1.4 mods and a different section for 1.5 .This is because they dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason
This should not be indulged, nor should it be encouraged. Buying the add-on supports all theatres of SH4 regardless of affiliation. Well said Sober (The anti-handle ^^)

[THE_MASK]

I think some people want a mod section for 1.4 mods and a different section for 1.5 . This is because they dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . I dont think it would be fair to ubisoft , and the devs and the future of silent hunter to support both 1.4 and 1.5 patches at the same time just because some people dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . cheers sober out .

[SuperCavitation]

Ok, I see the logic in this. But beyond saying [REL] the author has got all the leeway he needs to define it with the name he gives it.

Totally. I'm not saying my idea should be implemented, but I do feel the concept should. And I also believe it should start asap to avoid any further insanity already generated by the addition. I don't think I have to point to any threads for you to get what I'm saying. :p

I'm still trying to figure out how to set the depth of my mk14s on another thread, fer chrissakes. :huh:

I'm also hoping this particular thread doesn't degenerate. There needs to be a smiley for me chewing my nails. It's what I do anyways when the DD are stalking... :p

[AVGWarhawk]

I think some people want a mod section for 1.4 mods and a different section for 1.5 . This is because they dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . I dont think it would be fair to ubisoft , and the devs and the future of silent hunter to support both 1.4 and 1.5 patches at the same time just because some people dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . cheers sober out .

The addon contains new things for the fleet boats. Also, better running game. It would not make sense not to purchase the addon for that reason alone. My game has never been more stable. I like all the new texures and screens for crew, etc. For $10.00 it was well worth it for me and I suspect others.

[THE_MASK]

I think some people want a mod section for 1.4 mods and a different section for 1.5 . This is because they dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . I dont think it would be fair to ubisoft , and the devs and the future of silent hunter to support both 1.4 and 1.5 patches at the same time just because some people dont want to buy the addon for whatever reason . cheers sober out .

The addon contains new things for the fleet boats. Also, better running game. It would not make sense not to purchase the addon for that reason alone. My game has never been more stable. I like all the new texures and screens for crew, etc. For $10.00 it was well worth it for me and I suspect others.

My point exactly , thats why i bought it and lets support the franchise by supporting the 1.5 patch .

[Ducimus]

Something like:

Title: [REL][1.5 UBoat] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US] Name of the mod
Title: [REL][1.5 US/Uboat] Name of the mod


...would be easy on noobs like me...

There is one , simple problem with this, and i know im generalizing but........

In general, not all end Users read very well. I mean, seriously, i just posted 1.5 compatible TMO the other day, and i specificilly stated near the top "a "supermod" that touches on just about every aspect of the game you can think of, and focuses exclusively on the Pacific Submarine war, and the US Silent Service.".

I dont mean to sound testy, but i dont think i should have to mention that at all. TM has been around SH4 for awhile now, so people should already know what it is, and is not. Yet, I get questions fielded to me about how come the uboat game isnt working correctly. (yes there are incompatibilities already, by boosting one theater, ive broken the other, i provided a modlet that fixes that if they want to play the stock uboat campaign, but still.... )

I think it would be much simpler if the mod forums were theater specific, as to remove any ambiguity for the end user.

(edit: of course this is assuming a world of large mods focused on one theater or the other. Im hazzarding a guess that not as many mods will touch on BOTH theaters. If that ends up being the case, then there isnt much of a point in seperating mod forums by theater)

[AkbarGulag]

Yea, I was not aware that playing with one section could damage another. The ASW mod is so limited in files touched, that I have not had problems.

Are you saying Ducimus, that errors created in the second theatre can not be overcome by some of the large MODS?

[SuperCavitation]

Duci, You are a well-respected member here and I have in zero doubt your abilities and talent.

But let me be completely frank just for a sec. I have no idea what TMO is, and that is partially my fault for not looking before posting. If you think I'm behind the curve now, just read a few more lines.

I came back here after a long hiatus. I just got Sh4 prior to the addon. In fact, I dont think Ive posted here since around Dangerous Waters or so. Yet, since I've had the opportunity to return, I've been watching the boards when I can and I don't feel that I'm alone. There are new people everyday. I've seen more questions than answers, and this has been greatly exaggerated since the add-on.

This is not your fault. So please dont think im going there. I'm also not attacking you, so please don't think that.

You said, "Not all end users read well," I would counter with not everyone writes well, including me. Hence, my suggestion for the title, as it were. I read the description you posted and I agree that it leans on the pacific side but it tells me nothing about what version of the game I might be able to use it for. "a "supermod" that touches on just about every aspect of the game you can think of, and focuses exclusively on the Pacific Submarine war"

It doesnt, from the outset, jump out at me and say, "Hey, You... this is 1.5!"

Again, I'm not saying this is your fault, I'm simply trying to point out something.

Two weeks ago, when I rejoined here, I tried to figure out what the heck RSRD meant, which is a common phrase with yall. Then ROW. And a whole bunch of other acronyms that may or may not work with the addon. Then I tried to figure out why everyone had Leo's sig (God bless his soul) in their sig. It took some time. And, really, what I was doing was trying to play catch-up in ... jeez... days? When I only had hours? And I still dont know as much as I probably should.

This addon is going to bring new users. New players. New everything. I'm not calling for "viva la revolution" here, but I am saying that there are a few people, maybe more than I think, that could benefit from some "dumbing down" so to speak. At the very least it would help.

Again, this isnt an attack, please dont think that. I'm completely ignorant of whats cool versus what isnt, then you throw the addon in and im lost totally. We all would benefit from a brighter structure, is all im saying.

Hope you arent mad. I'll look up TMO after hitting post. :oops:

[Paajtor]

Two weeks ago, when I rejoined here, I tried to figure out what the heck RSRD meant, which is a common phrase with yall. Then ROW. And a whole bunch of other acronyms that may or may not work with the addon. Then I tried to figure out why everyone had Leo's sig (God bless his soul) in their sig. It took some time. And, really, what I was doing was trying to play catch-up in ... jeez... days? When I only had hours? And I still dont know as much as I probably should.
Same for me - and the reason why I started this thread, because I was afraid this only could get worse.
I bought SH4 maybe 2 weeks before the addon came out, and still I'm spending more time on these forums than ingame.

It's already hard to keep up with existing mods - while they're constantly being updated - and on top of that come new mods for 2 game versions!
It's a constant stream of changes.

Example: how to find the green lamp mod, for this addon (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=799422#post799422)?
If you don't know it exists, you'll never have it, unless some poor soul bumps it up from oblivion.
Another one...the metric nomograph for 1.5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131983)...just got released, but the topic is already on page3.
Sure, with patience, everything can be searched for and found.
But I want to play the game, in the precious hours that I have. ;)

Hell, in the SH3 section, some Überboat got a sticky at one moment...:yep:

[Ducimus]

SuperCavitation,

You have some excellent points there. Part of the problem, is that i "assume" :roll: everyone has this level of knowledge, that i guess it take for granted. I have the same problem at work acutally.... when im asked to write tech documents, more often then not, i assume the reader has a basic knowledge level of what im writing about, and gloss over those details, and the end result of my writeup, is a set of "stereo instructions" (thats exactly what my supervisor calls anything i write now. LOL )


AkbarGulag
Are you saying Ducimus, that errors created in the second theatre can not be overcome by some of the large MODS?

Some files when changed to make the pacific more correct, don't translate as well to the uboat campaign. Menu.txt for example. Doesn't break it, but some changes aren't really applicable to both.

Camera mods are a biggy. I can think of at least one version of a camera mod ive worked with where i canabalized the radioroom camera's functionlity, and applied it to another node in the dat file. While enhancing interior views in fleetboats, you just castrated an entire room in a uboat. Also, free cams will break station views, (black or blank screen) unless those are updated.

Right now, my main culprit is the Marine.dat file. THe new one by all apperances just has the uboat crews appended to the bottom of it. The problem with it for the paciific game, is the US naval officers cap looks like greek fishermans hat, and the texture rendering is HORRIBLE. Using the file from CaptainCox's officer cap mod fixes both of those problems, but because the uboat crews are absent from thsi file, the game will CTD when loading a uboat game.


Then theres campaign_NMS.mis. Right now the one for the pacific has a buttload of names on them. The more labels you add, the laggier it gets. On top of this , ive put down a US naval grid system that was absent in the stock game. Having no other way to do this, i put it in the campaign_NMS.mis file. This makes it inheritantly incompatible with the uboat game, and adding the extra labels introduced in the uboat campaign could cause alot of unneccessary lag.

Then theres the campaign.cfg. Similr scenario. traffic scripting mods have been out awhile now. While one could append uboat campaigns to it, WHY?! Its just going to cause unneccessary traffic using CPU cycles that the player will never see or use if in one campaign or the other.

Thats just for starters, coming in the sh4 version 1.5 gate. Im sure the longer we have, more incompatiblities will be found. Personnaly i think it takes an unncessary amount of work to get both campaigns compatible under one roof, and by doing so, youll more then likely have to water down one side or the other.