I need an answer about search lights guys

[leovampire]

I fixed the problem with Light houses and search lights and Star shells that was posted in the 1.4 Probelms thread for the ROW mod.

Got them to cast reflections and be more visable and cast a light on ships and stuff. And they are blinding when they hit you dead on center camera.

But the problem is all of them in game are set at 200 meters as far as the search light's and light houses go.

Seeing this is for everyone I would like to know what you want for a setting so no one tells me it isn't right when I release it.

Light houses

Land base search light's

Ship base search light's

What should I set each at please?

http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/r/reflections/112772/drmyprrknx.thumb500.jpg
http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/r/reflections/112772/mjguppcqfq.thumb500.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok, the lighthouse lights should blind the living daylights out of you if you are looking at them directly.

If I'm not mistaken the lighthouse light should be visible from 28 miles away on a good clear night. This was just using sperm whale oil to actually create the illumination through the Resnell lense. I suspect more from electrical illumination. Being as you are clipped at 200m then this will have to be the set point.

I can not use the fog feature. How does the light look in fog?

[leovampire]

Ok, the lighthouse lights should blind the living daylights out of you if you are looking at them directly.

If I'm not mistaken the lighthouse light should be visible from 28 miles away on a good clear night. This was just using sperm whale oil to actually create the illumination through the Resnell lense. I suspect more from electrical illumination. Being as you are clipped at 200m then this will have to be the set point.

I can not use the fog feature. How does the light look in fog?

I was checking them as I came into port last night or early this morning in real life and there was no fog.

So maybe 800 meters for the light houses and 400 meters for all search light's?

[jdkbph]

Not quite sure what you mean by "set them at 200" there LV. What characteristic is defined by this 200 meter setting?

JD

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, being I'm a Imperial type of dude, what does 200m translate into miles?

[leovampire]

Every thing in the game for main settings is in Meters / Kilometers / knoticle miles.

When I started to work on them all of the search light's and so forth were set at 200 meters maximum effect.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok. you made me do it....I had to go find a conversion page;) . 200 meters is equal to 0.12 miles. So, the basic understanding that these lights can be see from 28 miles on a nice clear night is out of the question since the game is clipped at 200m. Leave them at 200m so we can see them as were motor into port.

[Rockin Robbins]

2000 meters is close enough to a mile.

I don't think the lighthouse would illuminate anything at any range but should be visible at 16,000 meters or the horizon, whichever comes first. The searchlight should illuminate at about 500 meters, but should be seen for about 4000 meters. That's a guess though. Wonder if there's any good info out there?

[AVGWarhawk]

According to Leo's findings the light is clipped at 200m. When I read your post RR you are correct. We should see the small light flashing when we are very far but I guess it will be blinding at 200m. Is that how it works Leo?

[leovampire]

And I can see the light house light flash by the Bridge camera when I look at it with a light like the sun so I guess seeing it through the fog will not be an issue now LMAO! Can even see the water reflection of it in the day light.

I set the light house for 1000 meters which is 3280 feet max blinding distance and reflection and I will see how it looks at night time.

And I set the ships and land based search light's to 500 meters which is 1640 feet

http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/l/leovampire/93141/dufaesoolt.thumb500.jpg

[MONOLITH]

:rock:

[tater]

During the war lighthouses were turned off. Period.

The proper light for a lighthouse is no light at all. Blackout in effect for the duration.

tater

[leovampire]

During the war lighthouses were turned off. Period.

The proper light for a lighthouse is no light at all. Blackout in effect for the duration.

tater

Listen you either have them or not and before you could barly see any of them including ship's search light's. This is not part of the question at hand or discussion.


In your mod if you want to kill the light's do it and rememeber once you do kill them you can kiss a lot of other in game light's away as well like the shore search light's and more!

In the mean time I am trying to fix a problem posted in the need's for 1.4 patch that was mentioned and all of what I am doing is releated to each other in one way or the other in the game files.

[tater]

Gotcha. I was thinking when S3D can do that sort of thing I'd delete the lights from them :) Thought I'd make your life easier by having you just turn it off. :D

I suppose if we knew the lumens of a typical lighthouse light we could calculate the amount is there at a given distance in RL. It's an inverse square issue with a solid angle.

To be fair, though, you were asking what settings should be in terms of visibility at range. My honest answer would be zero assuming the lighthouses are separate from the other lights you mention. None would have been lit, except the Night of December 6th.

tater

[SteamWake]

During the war lighthouses were turned off. Period.

The proper light for a lighthouse is no light at all. Blackout in effect for the duration.

tater

thats what I was thinking.. but hey its just a game.

Looks like these guys are doin some good work on reflections and such.

[MONOLITH]

Easy Leo. That post isn't like you.

Leave the other thread's anger over there.

Count to 5 and take a deep breath. :up:

[leovampire]

Easy Leo. That post isn't like you.

Leave the other thread's anger over there.

Count to 5 and take a deep breath. :up:

Just got frustrated as several times when I try to do something fix or anything else for an add on I get told but it shouldn't happen or be this way before they know what was involved to do it in the first place and how they all tie into each other.

5 Day's looking through nodes and files trying to fix the problem listed 2 times in the needs to be fixed for 1.4 patch then get shot down.

Again sorry to come on so strong my bad.

[tater]

Out of curiosity, what lights are "the same" as the lighthouse such that they'd go away with the lighthouses?

My actual idea was to open up the ports and lighthouse objects and remove the light nodes once I can do that in S3D, not actually turn them off globally. That way you could make a lighthouse that IS on and have it be replaced with the off version when appropriate (from december 7th, 1941, til August 1945).

tater

[tater]

I'm with AVG, though, seems like for the times when ON, lighthouses should be as bright and long-ranged as possible.

tater

[leovampire]

Out of curiosity, what lights are "the same" as the lighthouse such that they'd go away with the lighthouses?

My actual idea was to open up the ports and lighthouse objects and remove the light nodes once I can do that in S3D, not actually turn them off globally. That way you could make a lighthouse that IS on and have it be replaced with the off version when appropriate (from december 7th, 1941, til August 1945).

tater

And in the LAND folder there is a DAT file for the land base search light's.

The one in the Library control's several at the same time. There is the normal search light's and the small search light's control's. The one in the Library does a joint control for the ships and the light houses.

If you kill one you kill the other. The only way to stop the light houses would be to find them and take the link out for a light source but good luck finding just the light house in the game as it is tied into the Harbor DAT file as far as I know.

And all of them share the same light dds file.

There in 2 minutes I gave you the day's I spent in finding all this out it took me hope that makes up for my earlier comment.

[MONOLITH]

On the topic of historical realism, I think it's really just a question of personal preference.

Sometimes I would rather enjoy the inclusion of a particular game feature, rather than not have it due to historical realism.

I like the lighthouses. I like them on. I can't wait to see Leo's 'new lighthouses' off in the distance. It's just personal choice.

I'm sure Tater will find the right line to disable them for those that want them off for realism, and we all can have the best of both worlds. :up:

[tater]

Leo, you know my first answer will always be the compulsive, anal stuff that runs through my head :D

tater

[leovampire]

Leo, you know my first answer will always be the compulsive, anal stuff that runs through my head :D

tater

Remember what it takes for your mod's to find what you are looking for and trying to do and how long it takes to test and see what the effect's are and come up with a final result.

So far my Airbase mod then what I was going to do for the plane's and bomb load out's and fix's for the bomb's so I stoped doing that mod. Now my fix for something people asked for several time's in the patch release. Let's not forget the start of the ROW release as well with the sun and moon. Then you ask how do you change it. I am always considerate and dispite how much you P**S me off sometimes I always give you the info you ask for.


Apreciate before you condem it and tear it apart please then talk to me in a PM or something.

[MONOLITH]

Leo's cranky tonight.

Take the day off tomorrow Leo. You're working too hard. :p

[tater]

I wasn't trying to be anything but helpful, but I'll always be helpful in the way I think is most realistic if asked for an opinion (you did ask what we wanted, lol, I realize I'm likely the only person who wants them off :) ).

That said, the searchlights used by the IJN were capable of illuminating targets for naval gunfire. Think antiaircraft searchlights here.

Land seachlights would actually be antiaircraft lights. They could illuminate targets at least a couple miles up. Aircraft were spotlighted for gunnery---meaning fully illuminated targets that could then be aimed at---with the searchlights at 10,000+ feet (2+ miles)

In the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, Akatsuki and Hiei lit up Atlanta at a range of over 3000 yards. So that's a minimum. So the shipboard ones should decently illuminate targets pretty well at what for SH4 are pretty long ranges. I'd honestly think the real distance would be miles. Fully illuminated.

Lighthouses. Well, same thing, very bright, but designed to be visible at huge ranges, illuminating something not part of the requirement. During wartime, shut off completely. So you can make peacetime lighthouses, very bright (but they needn't illuminate, just be visible)---or wartime, and drop them to whatever minimal value you want.

tater

[leovampire]

I wasn't trying to be anything but helpful, but I'll always be helpful in the way I think is most realistic if asked for an opinion (you did ask what we wanted, lol, I realize I'm likely the only person who wants them off :) ).

That said, the searchlights used by the IJN were capable of illuminating targets for naval gunfire. Think antiaircraft searchlights here.

Land seachlights would actually be antiaircraft lights. They could illuminate targets at least a couple miles up. Aircraft were spotlighted for gunnery---meaning fully illuminated targets that could then be aimed at---with the searchlights at 10,000+ feet (2+ miles)

In the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, Akatsuki and Hiei lit up Atlanta at a range of over 3000 yards. So that's a minimum. So the shipboard ones should decently illuminate targets pretty well at what for SH4 are pretty long ranges. I'd honestly think the real distance would be miles. Fully illuminated.

Lighthouses. Well, same thing, very bright, but designed to be visible at huge ranges, illuminating something not part of the requirement. During wartime, shut off completely. So you can make peacetime lighthouses, very bright (but they needn't illuminate, just be visible)---or wartime, and drop them to whatever minimal value you want.

tater

Thanks tater but I am not going to go that high up in setting's seeing the AI in the game uses the amount of light available to determine how well they see a target. BTW Tater and who ever else want's realism do what I did for my own game. I gave all port's, Docks and Airbases Both AI Visual and AI Radar. So with the search lights and light houses working now they can spot an incomming Enemy vesel like a sub so this does add to the game and makes it harder to sneak into a port to take pictures or sink a ship.

Okay this is what I am doing so far and testing. Like I said at the start of the post all Search light's or any kind in the game was set at a maximum of 200 meters for effective range and there is no minimal range effect's just maxmum.

I am going on 1.5 nauticle Mile base for the largest of the light's.

So the big one's will be at 2778 meters

the next level down in search lights will be at 1389 meters

and the smallest of the lights I will put at 695 meters

Keep one thing in mind here the AI has visual set up for the amount of light in the area for them to be able to see a target so going more than this might mean they will spot your scope sticking out of the water that much easier at night.

[tater]

Cool!

I hadn't thought about the harbors, etc. Duh! Anythign to make that less easy is good. Land searchlights as well, least in big ports. :up:

The IJN was actually kind of famous for using searchlights in gunfights. COurse it worked both ways, they'd illuminate a targets, and the ship wit the lights on drew LOADS of fire.

tater

[leovampire]

Cool!

I hadn't thought about the harbors, etc. Duh! Anythign to make that less easy is good. Land searchlights as well, least in big ports. :up:

The IJN was actually kind of famous for using searchlights in gunfights. COurse it worked both ways, they'd illuminate a targets, and the ship wit the lights on drew LOADS of fire.

tater

But you were typing out so many reply's so fast in it that you over looked what I wrote to you about add on's so I just let it go and figured one day you would see it again going back through it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Leo's cranky tonight.

Take the day off tomorrow Leo. You're working too hard. :p


Phooey, I thought the same thing when I read Leo's response. But Tater got me thinking on the subject. Along the East Coast of the US the lighthouses were left on and the shoreline house/amusement park lights were left on. Perfect for the uboat commanders and quite helpful for navigation/attack. Now, as Tater noted many moons ago that Midway had to lights and he summarily removed them. Great job! But, what about the the other ports. When and were did they shut them down? Personally, I like the lights myself. Often I will motor in realtime just for the enjoyment. The lighthouses add to that. Leo, I love the idea of the Japanese ports being more aggressive with detection using ligthhouse, etc. Making the DD aggressive is part of the game for sure, now that we are assigned to entering ports for pictures provides another avenue to look into and making these difficult as well. Nice!!!!!!

[Rockin Robbins]

In the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, Akatsuki and Hiei lit up Atlanta at a range of over 3000 yards. So that's a minimum. So the shipboard ones should decently illuminate targets pretty well at what for SH4 are pretty long ranges. I'd honestly think the real distance would be miles. Fully illuminated.
Amazing! No wonder they were so good at night. I should have known that from reading the book on the USS Houston. It tells me what a lucky thing for us it was that our surface fleet was put safely on the bottom to begin the war in Pearl Harbor. We also sought the showdown with battle fleet strategy.

I hate to think what would have been the result of this maritime "Showdown at the OK Corral." The Japanese would have engaged at night and Pearl Harbor would have looked like a walk in the park. Methinks a major defeat for the US would be in the cards. The magnitude of that defeat could have affected our committment to the war in the Pacific.

[tater]

I notice there is an "Angle" property for the lights. 10 degrees is a helluva a lot of spread for the naval searchlights.

b. Spread-beam modification. (1) The norma1(1 1/4° ) beam of the searchlight is unsatisfactory for tracking maneuverable, high-speed targets (such as motor torpedo boats) at short ranges. Most mobile searchlights now in service have been modified to
permit spreading the beam to a width of 15 ° by defocusing the light.

Looks like a much smaller beam spread would be standard for the naval units. the doc later says that coastal units had a different set up and could be adjusted to 10 degrees.

Still, the usual spread would be more narrow than 10°, they got to that width by adding lenses that fodled to the sides when not in use. (USN lights).

That alone might provide some visual interest. Have the ship lights more narrow (maybe not 1.25°, but not 10°, either, 3-5°, perhaps?). Combined with the longer range, particularly cool when a few converge on you!

tater

[leovampire]

I notice there is an "Angle" property for the lights. 10 degrees is a helluva a lot of spread for the naval searchlights.

b. Spread-beam modification. (1) The norma1(1 1/4° ) beam of the searchlight is unsatisfactory for tracking maneuverable, high-speed targets (such as motor torpedo boats) at short ranges. Most mobile searchlights now in service have been modified to
permit spreading the beam to a width of 15 ° by defocusing the light.

Looks like a much smaller beam spread would be standard for the naval units. the doc later says that coastal units had a different set up and could be adjusted to 10 degrees.

Still, the usual spread would be more narrow than 10°, they got to that width by adding lenses that fodled to the sides when not in use. (USN lights).

That alone might provide some visual interest. Have the ship lights more narrow (maybe not 1.25°, but not 10°, either, 3-5°, perhaps?). Combined with the longer range, particularly cool when a few converge on you!

tater

SO I will narrow the one's for the ship's a bit more and work with the others to find a nice ballance between them all. Right now I need to find a ship to see the night time effect's seeing I just left port it will take a bit. But the light houses are starting to look good.

[tater]

Since the light Actually gets used by the AI, narrowing the beam could be interesting indeed. Like if the AI_Visual (I'm working on multiple AI_Visuals right now) got toned down to allow night surface attacks, but searchlights alter that.

So as long as you stay out of the beams, you are more safe...

Nice feedback for trying to form a course into the convoy...

tater