Results of Soviet boat testing

[clive bradbury]

In conjunction with the Cold war campaign I am in the process of designing, I have been carrying out tests to see which Soviet boats are competitive in a head-to-head (deep water) clash with NATO - in this case a Sturgeon.

Result - only the Akula and Sierra II stand an earthly. In all other cases the US boat detects first, and therefore destroys the opposition without a problem.

[Kapitan]

Now try the test with a competant akula captain, in real life the akula can detect things far beyond that of the 688i and thier sonars can out range the seawolf, however the big draw back is the display screens.

If they had US display screens and akula sonars they would be laughing literally ! thats the biggest let down in the entire fleet.

[Sea Demon]

Now try the test with a competant akula captain, in real life the akula can detect things far beyond that of the 688i and thier sonars can out range the seawolf, however the big draw back is the display screens.

If they had US display screens and akula sonars they would be laughing literally ! thats the biggest let down in the entire fleet.

I'm not so sure your boasting is warranted. Your statements regarding Akula vs. 688I/Seawolf is not a settled matter. ;) In fact, I'm not convinced that the Russians have ever produced anything of the quality/sensitivity as BQQ-10 suite, BQQ-5D with WAA, and TB series towed arrays. Plus the current condition of the Russian Navy is not very impressive to say the least.

[Dmitry Markov]

IMHO the quality of sonars and type of displays are of course very important factors in underwater warfare but not the only ones. It's just like the usual question about "who would win in a suggested fight - an adept of karate or an adept of kendo?" And the only correct one is - "the one who is the most trained would win!" Because even subs of 671 project in Soviet times have tracked far more sophisticated NATO vessels and subs and remained undetected due to their crew skills - and they didn't have sonars that 971's do have, not to say about Vepr and Gepard. Of course today's status of Russian Navy is uncomparable with Soviet Navy but the people who still are in service - they are real enthusiasts (I mean officers of course). And today's fleet funding allows them to keep shape more than it was in damn 90-s.

Best Regards

[Dmitry Markov]

Everything said higher was to that I am still much interested in Alfa-class campaign! :)

Best Regards

[clive bradbury]

I still intend to do a campaign for the Alpha, it is just that the Cold War campaign I originally wrote for it is simply too difficult, so I have had to redesign it for the Sierra II. When I do the Alpha I shall have to design missions within its capabilities.

[Kapitan]

In regards to boasting its not what i was doing, the fact is the akula sonar systems can detect things over 28,000mhz at distant ranges if you look into the US systems they can detect anything within distance of 16000mhz the akula does have a very good range on the sonar but the display screen lets it down.

Might i suggest if you ever fancy a holiday go to st petersburg and go to malakhit design station there, parts are open to the public, (this is off the topic btw) its intresting to see the early designs of submarines and what they have evolved into.

If you look at US Submarines they havnt really changed since the 1960's they all have the same shape, not so true with the russians, the russians learnt alot about hydrodynamics hence why they have stream lined submarines, the sails are shapped (akulas and victors phoons and others) to slice the ice open where american subs just push it up and over.

there are many areas in which the russians are clearly more advanced than the americans, but it also works the other way.

If you put the akula out to sea with seawolf control and weapons systems coupled with the silencing tech of the seawolf you will have one very fast agile and deadly submarine.

But you should never ever underestimate people and unit abilities, a competant captain could still sink even the most advanced ship or submarine in the world.

A little diesel submarine from sweden took on the USN didnt they and look at the mess it made it rang rings around the fleet.

the americans train with the british and i know for a good fact the british can run rings around the americans, you only have to ask both sides there.

We had one case last year the americans wouldnt take part in a naval exercise because they thought the germans were being unfair, to to please the americans the germans had to put noise makers on thier submarines just so the US navy had something to look for.

[Kapitan]

I'm not so sure your boasting is warranted. Your statements regarding Akula vs. 688I/Seawolf is not a settled matter. ;) In fact, I'm not convinced that the Russians have ever produced anything of the quality/sensitivity as BQQ-10 suite, BQQ-5D with WAA, and TB series towed arrays. Plus the current condition of the Russian Navy is not very impressive to say the least.


Currently the russian system is more sensative and yes given the right displays they could detect at greater ranges.

The americans have the edge on quality your display screens are so much easioer to uses and work with than that of the russian screens.

Have you ever been on board a proper akula and seen the screens there? they dont have a history like the US do they dont have water fall display and they are not very good display systems.

Its only now really the new sonars that are being used in the new boats that they can have all that information, but again its limited to the quality of the screen its not that good.

In terms of quality the americans do win that.

[Sea Demon]

In regards to boasting its not what i was doing, the fact is the akula sonar systems can detect things over 28,000mhz at distant ranges if you look into the US systems they can detect anything within distance of 16000mhz the akula does have a very good range on the sonar but the display screen lets it down.


I don't think you REALLY know what the American or Russian systems REALLY can do. And until you actually serve on a Virginia/Seawolf/688(I) or Akula, you will never know. That said, Russia is notorious for overhyping what their stuff can do. And Americans are silent about their own capabilities, yet seem extremely confident. You'll never make a convincing enough argument regarding Akula's sonar systems versus American sonars. I'll put my money on American sonar systems and weapons anyday.

[Sea Demon]

Oh, and by the way Clive, I'm looking forward to playing this campaign. Looking forward to playing as an Alfa captain again. :up:

[Kapitan]

Well i shall find out hopefully soon about british systems anyway, no one this side of the barrier will know the true capibilities yeah ok im privi to alot of things the russian side but i dont know everything.

I would put money on thier ASM missiles (russians) but the tomahawk has been tried and test (TLAM) the russian veriant hasnt yet, but like i said in way russia ahead in others behind.

[A-cool-a]

In regards to the sonar systems discussed, does anyone know if the newer Severodvinsk's suite is any better than the Akula's?

[Kapitan]

They would be, they would have the new waterfall displays but no one really knows yet.