Targets of opportunity (too many)

[SteamWake]

Im currently in a campaign near the end of the war. We stop at the Marshells often for a gas n go on our way to our patrol area.

While making way to the patrol area we encounter many "easy pickins". To many. If we take the time to prosicute them all we would be out of munitions before we reached the patrol area.

Sometimes we make contact within 50 miles of Marshells !

In fact one time we encountered a large task force and could not resist. After 6 hours (game time) and tearing that TF to shreds we ran completly out of torps. We returned to Marshells and then headed back to the original patrol area.

There is no sense of "urgency" to reach patrol areas. So may as well rack up tonnage on the way out.

Anyone know of a good mod to thin out the traffic that is NOT a part of a super mod ?

[AVGWarhawk]

Talk to Tater

[tater]

I have thinned out traffic, tis true.

I can pack up my layers for anyone to mess with, though I now think I might alter them some. The current version is really a learning experience for a plan to totally redo the campaign. I'm kind of waiting on 1.3 to get started in earnest since the way the escorts behave is somewhat critical to how you set the AI skill levels.

My campaign layers are not RFB friendly, however.

I'll make a version that doesn't require the US planes mod and post it for you, though to be fair I haven't given the late war much attention yet, I started at the beginning, and slowed down by the end of '43. My current set does have zig-zags set for all the shipping (and TFs), which is pretty cool.

It will be frustrating, though!

tater

[SteamWake]

I have thinned out traffic, tis true.

I can pack up my layers for anyone to mess with, though I now think I might alter them some. The current version is really a learning experience for a plan to totally redo the campaign. I'm kind of waiting on 1.3 to get started in earnest since the way the escorts behave is somewhat critical to how you set the AI skill levels.

My campaign layers are not RFB friendly, however.

I'll make a version that doesn't require the US planes mod and post it for you, though to be fair I haven't given the late war much attention yet, I started at the beginning, and slowed down by the end of '43. My current set does have zig-zags set for all the shipping (and TFs), which is pretty cool.

It will be frustrating, though!

tater

You are the man ! :rock:

Dont do it just for me though. Im sure some folks feel the same way though.

Yea I know I could just ignore them but its like being on a diet.. temptation around every island :p

[jhelix70]

That sounds great, Tater, looking forward to trying them.

In vanilla, the overly large amount of traffic (particularly TFs with large warships) just makes it too easy for one to rack up unrealistic tonnage numbers.

[mookiemookie]

tater, you have solved one of the biggest problems in the game for me. super awesome! :rock:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks tater:up:

RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

You found the TATER!!!!!!!!!!:rock:

[daft]

Sounds very promising. I'd like fewer single contacts and smaller convoys instead of the large ones typically encountered in the stock game. A typical convoy should be around two or three freighters (early to mid war) with a varying number of escorts (not as many DD's as in the stock version and perhaps more PC's and other minor escorts instead).

[AVGWarhawk]

Sounds very promising. I'd like fewer single contacts and smaller convoys instead of the large ones typically encountered in the stock game. A typical convoy should be around two or three freighters (early to mid war) with a varying number of escorts (not as many DD's as in the stock version and perhaps more PC's and other minor escorts instead).

:up: Exactly! I would like to add.....some of the smaller convoys hugging the coast like they did so be protected by shallow water!!!!!!

[tater]

I went back the other day and started doing stuff I had meant to do, but didn't. I started in my own layers by changing the TF ships around a little, dumped the GENERIC from many to avoid Yamato being around too much, etc. I also radically changed the CV TFs, reducing them, and increasing the spacing between ships (as much as the game allows for AI units).

I just went back and looked at the 41 layer (which is really dec 41 through the end of Feb 42). It is seriously fubar in stock. All told in "41" i deleted more than half the groups I think. There were convoys leaving places that the japanese didn't even own, etc. The other groups I reduced a fair bit convoy wise. Ditto merchant traffic. No more jap merchants coming and going from Port Moresby, etc.

All the timings are greatly increased for "special" stuff like TFs, troop convoys (huge liners), etc. In stock there were so many troop convoys you could sit in one spot and have a several pass within 20 miles every day sometimes. I also reduced the chances of anythign generating contact reports. Before I release this, I will go back and pick a few that pass under areas where they would be more likely to be spotted and increase the % a bit. Contacts are a huge problem, frankly. You can only pick the chance per group. Better would be to have a marker with a radius on the map (with start/end dates). Anythign inside that circle would take the detection chance in the circle, too bad they didn't do it that way.

I will try and get something out tonight if possible. It's really usable as it is, but for a wide release I want to clean it up a hair.

Note that my campaign also changes the Roster and the cfg files for 2 IJN ships, the minelayer, and the subchaser. In my campaign they are switched to "corvettes" so that the "patrol craft" are only the coastal riverboats. I need to make sure they are not at sea (I might have missed a few). I also might need to mess more with the harbor traffic layers to make sure there are some subchasers in the mix.

Note that there are serious gaps still, this was mostly a change to stock layers, the Slot is still pretty barren, etc, I haven't gotten around to that.

[SteamWake]

I will try and get something out tonight if possible. It's really usable as it is, but for a wide release I want to clean it up a hair.

you are awsome ! :rock:

I assume I had better be in port before applying such a mod or is a new carrier in order ?

[kikn79]

Sounds like great work, Tater. Thank you for all your hard work and effort!!!


Chuck

[tater]

Put in at the very least. It will CTD for sure otherwise.

As for coastal stuff, I have an experimental layer in there to do just that along the mainland. It's a lot of work for those inshore guys. Wish we had some sea trucks and coasters.

Another note. With all the traffic utilizing zig-zags (15-35 degrees every 15 to 120+ minutes, switching up offset and even speed every few hundred nm), the contact reports need to be taken with an extreme grain of salt. Such reports are perfectly accurate at the moment they are made, but the headings and speed can vary quite a bit from the base course. From any distance, you'll likely have to guess for a choke point they might pass through.

[AVGWarhawk]

I told you to talk to TATER!!!!:up: Great job Tater:rock:

Tater, when you are happy with your work, release on the MODs forum. Let everyone have a go at it and give you some feedback!

[tater]

I will. I need to listen to my wife's mantra, "the enemy of 'good,' is 'perfect'."

[btaft]

Sounds incredible. Kind of like what GWX did for SH3 from a campaign standpoint. The number of contacts in stock really was obscene. I only did 3 patrols but in each patrol I intercepted 3 large task forces without even trying (bagging, a BB, a CV and a Yamato BB, 2 of the 3 in an S class). I expect my CMOH in the mail any day now :D

This sounds like some very good work!!! especially the zig-zaging and speed changes

[AVGWarhawk]

I will. I need to listen to my wife's mantra, "the enemy of 'good,' is 'perfect'."

Perfectionist!

[tater]

I made the mistake of looking at the harbor traffic. I might have to leave that as it is for now, then work on it. Hong Kong is japanese in SH4 from the beginning of time (1938), for example. Yeah, I can change them, but it's every unit. Ugh.

When I do post this, let me know if you see contacts in places where they don't belong (ie: forces in harbors not yet under jap control, etc).

Note also that I have done exactly nothing with the allied/other layers. Nothing at all. I figured that could wait til a definitive version.

[Snuffy]

Looking forward to this Tater! Sounds awesome!

Much grass!

[SteamWake]

I havent noticed too much of allied traffic.

In fact I was supprised the other night when I picked up a convoy on radar moving "fast". We firewalled the throttle and had a hellua time catching up with it and much to my supprise it was an allied task force !

First time Ive seen one actually !

[tater]

My TFs all go at TF speeds, 15-18 knots. Given the fact I reduced the contact report % on most all of them, get used to frustrating missed warships, or tough end-arounds if you manage to stumble on them at night. I was playing a career, testing layers when I spotted a DD. I looked around with the TBT to see a few big masts poking up over the horizon. I only saw the DD escort because he was on a rear flank. They were angling away at at least 16 knots.

I tried an end-around (it was daytime), but only ever got close enough to make out a Fuso (and others).

[SteamWake]

Wow really.

Did TF's really steam along at flank ? The bigger ships musta been really chugging fuel to keep up.

[tater]

Flank for IJN fleet units was more like 30-something knots.

[jhelix70]

my sense is that 25+ kts was "battle speed" and couldn't be maintained for very long.

Under normal conditions, about 15-18 kts like you are using sounds perfect:up:

[tater]

Fuel use increases very quickly with speed.

A typical IJN DD might be able to cruise at 15 knots for 400 hours, but at 34 knots, she'd be out of gas in closer to 30 hours.

[tater]

Let me know if I screwed anything up too badly, this wasn't really intended for the general public, it's just a stream of conciousness learning experience.

New Campaign (JSGME ready):
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116283


tater

[Snuffy]

Cool!

Will download this tonight after work!

Thanks Tater!

[SteamWake]

Cool!

Will download this tonight after work!

Thanks Tater!

Ditto... that is after I polish off that Task force we spotted last night and get back to port.

Hrm that may take a couple of days.

[tater]

If you use JSGME, you can save your game now. Quit. Install mod. PLay around with it. Save that game if you wish. Quit. Uninstall my layers. Restart game and resume your career.

[tater]

One tool I started using was to merge all the layers for a time period, then run the "play" button to watch the random stuff move around the map.There is a lot there, but in reality there should probably be ~200-250 merchant ships on the map at any given moment in 1942/43. I think I probably have fewer than that, so I might need to bump up the merchant traffic. OTOH, that includes traffic we'd not see in the Sea of Japan which is not really in game at all (all the Sea of Japan stuff in game transits elsewhere). In reality, there should be a huge amount of back and forth between Japan/China and Japan/Korea. That alone might bump it over the top. I'd not bother adding it until the US did operations there since it's just more stuff for your machine to have to track.

What we really need is proper ULTRAs instead of the contact reports. Many ULTRAs included exact locations the TF/convoy was to pass through at a specific time, and many were pretty accurate. So instead of seeing a TF icon on the map, and having to guess where it might be going, you'd be sent to a specific lat/long where the TF was to meet oilers, for example.

[dean_acheson]

Thanks tater.

This is a big hole in the gang. I for one, don't mind crusing around for a long time w/o a contact, b/c that is how it was.....

[tater]

I'm not happy with everything east of the Philipines, frankly. It's UGLY in the stock layers and needs fixing, but it's a lot of work.

[Snuffy]

I'm not happy with everything east of the Philipines, frankly. It's UGLY in the stock layers and needs fixing, but it's a lot of work.

I've never been east of the Phillipines ... :hmm:

[tater]

Well, at least Truk is now on the map with a little traffic.

I'd have put a fleet there, but it'd be a shooting gallery without a reef. I tried a layer with mines/nets, but I never saw them. Need to try again. If I do so, I would place mines and nets so close together the only way in would be through the channels, and I'd sit SCs on top of them (elite).

Hmmm....

[kikn79]

WooHoo!! What a great fix. It was really getting tiring having to "avoid" contacts in order to get to my patrol area. This is great.

Thanks Tater!!

Chuck

[AVGWarhawk]

It's catching on Tater. Keep at it. :up:

[Dogster]

I play the Trigger Maru mod, Ducimus has thinned the traffic out too.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm running with Taters mod as Tater has really been looking deeply into the layers since the game came out. See my second post on this thread, I knew Tater was looking hard at it now for weeks. Currently, I like playing the game in the vanilla state, I do have some texture mods and that is it. I would like thinner traffic but a bit more historical traffic that Tater is attempting to obtain. I think his first attempt is pretty good. I see Tater making it top notch. :up:

[tater]

New version is up. Patrols to Truk will now be fruitful, at least until March/April 1942. I expect to get the rest of 1942 done soon to add to a new release. Comments are welcome to improve it.

http://www.mediafire.com/?f3mjjdgw7zh (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116283)

(version 0.61)

[SteamWake]

New version is up. Patrols to Truk will now be fruitful, at least until March/April 1942. I expect to get the rest of 1942 done soon to add to a new release. Comments are welcome to improve it.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116283

(version 0.6)

Awsome tater Ill try to get it tonight and give it a go.

Ill have to start a new carrier as my current one is late 1943 but its worth it.

[tater]

Sorry to keep releasing little unfinished versions, but as beta I'd like to nail it down, and my eyes see it so often it helps to have a clean look (by you guinea pigs ;) ), ya know?

BTW, one of the benefits of doing this as a JSGME mod is that you can save your career (mid ocean, wherever), load the mod, play around at the start of the war, then use JSGME to turn the mod off again and go back to your campaign in progress.

JSGME really rocks. Thanks again, jscones! :rock:

tater

[tater]

0.61

http://www.mediafire.com/?f3mjjdgw7zh

I screwed something up on the last one. This also goes into the 42/43 stuff a little.


tater

[Reaves]

Thanks for the effort you're putting in Tater. I don't use many mods myself (only green light and radio packs) but I'll certainly be using this one on my new career.