AVGWarhawk
07-08-2007, 03:12 PM
In a nutshell ROF is very variable due to many factors, like sea state, weather, wind, tide, lighting, boat design, crew training, captain's philosophy, crew fatigue, mission, target, target's reaction, to name a few, but SH4 allows one rate and one only.
Exactly! And this is where a lot of heat in this debate comes from. It is not with Beery's mod - he is to be gratefuly thanked for his time and effort - it is with his argument that he takes ONE recorded ROF by Whahoo, posted on the internet and then extrapolates this as been the alpha and beta for all 60 odd subs throughout the entire Pacific campaign ignoring or belittiling any other evidence that one puts forward - even the collective memory of over 200 war veterans. Yes memory can be suspect, but all 200, all saying much the same. Give me a break. I would not ask Berry to change his mod - that would be an insult to his opinion which he expressed in his mod, but having said that, in a debate on the ROF outside of his mod, one would expect him to extend the same respect and courtesy to those who question and bring forward other evidence. Even if he does not like it. He is the judge and jury on his own mod and rightly so, but not on the question of: "What was the average ROF of a submarines deck gun in combat during WWII?" In my opinion, as things stand right now, it is an OPEN question.
Good pic Neon Deon.
AVGWachawk, seeing as you failed to include my quote in your extensive list of quotes in support of what you feel defines 'logic' and the issue of Berry and his mode, I hope you don't mind if I refresh your memory. For the record, I am not against Berry and his mod. I take umbrage at some of his replies to those that simply question his rationale on the historical use of the deck gun without becoming abusive. It is of interest to note that after 12 odd pages on this thread, and, I might say, a lot of interesting information, that even Berry is conceding the fact that his next ROF for all guns will be be quicker. So, we ALL learn in the process of this debate without belittling anyones point of view.
My apologies for failing to include yours as a quote. Amongst the miriad of other quotes yours was overlooked. I did not want to overkill my point. I do not require a memory refresher. When I require one I will let you know. What is required is constructive conversation to come to a common goal(apparently having Beery make the ROF a bit faster). Seems this has been obtained. Baiting for arguments/flaming is not constructive. That is point one. Point two, when other members start to pipe up and are getting turned off by the flaming, it is time to step in. This is when ALL are not learning anything but a few quick comebacks.
Personally, I believe the ROF that is stock is as close as it should be. Again, the game is limited to a lot of factors that can not be included.
Exactly! And this is where a lot of heat in this debate comes from. It is not with Beery's mod - he is to be gratefuly thanked for his time and effort - it is with his argument that he takes ONE recorded ROF by Whahoo, posted on the internet and then extrapolates this as been the alpha and beta for all 60 odd subs throughout the entire Pacific campaign ignoring or belittiling any other evidence that one puts forward - even the collective memory of over 200 war veterans. Yes memory can be suspect, but all 200, all saying much the same. Give me a break. I would not ask Berry to change his mod - that would be an insult to his opinion which he expressed in his mod, but having said that, in a debate on the ROF outside of his mod, one would expect him to extend the same respect and courtesy to those who question and bring forward other evidence. Even if he does not like it. He is the judge and jury on his own mod and rightly so, but not on the question of: "What was the average ROF of a submarines deck gun in combat during WWII?" In my opinion, as things stand right now, it is an OPEN question.
Good pic Neon Deon.
AVGWachawk, seeing as you failed to include my quote in your extensive list of quotes in support of what you feel defines 'logic' and the issue of Berry and his mode, I hope you don't mind if I refresh your memory. For the record, I am not against Berry and his mod. I take umbrage at some of his replies to those that simply question his rationale on the historical use of the deck gun without becoming abusive. It is of interest to note that after 12 odd pages on this thread, and, I might say, a lot of interesting information, that even Berry is conceding the fact that his next ROF for all guns will be be quicker. So, we ALL learn in the process of this debate without belittling anyones point of view.
My apologies for failing to include yours as a quote. Amongst the miriad of other quotes yours was overlooked. I did not want to overkill my point. I do not require a memory refresher. When I require one I will let you know. What is required is constructive conversation to come to a common goal(apparently having Beery make the ROF a bit faster). Seems this has been obtained. Baiting for arguments/flaming is not constructive. That is point one. Point two, when other members start to pipe up and are getting turned off by the flaming, it is time to step in. This is when ALL are not learning anything but a few quick comebacks.
Personally, I believe the ROF that is stock is as close as it should be. Again, the game is limited to a lot of factors that can not be included.